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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Force, the Chosen One, Balance, and the ST

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Immortiss, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    This is the reason why it's a pet-peeve of mine when people try to retroactively insert the Rule of Two into the OT. It just doesn't make any sense, no matter the retcon explanations people come up with.
     
  2. Darth_Corvus

    Darth_Corvus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2010
    Well none of the stuff the PT retroactively inserts make any sense, which makes this discussion very hard as the rather vague prophecy wasn't even hinted in the OT.
     
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  3. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    To me it fits beautifully but regardless why we as the audience know about the prophecy because of I-III. In-universe why would anyone mention it? There is no reason. Who believes it was ever true by that time?

    No one. Not Obi-Wan or Yoda (who was doubting it all along) and certainly not Vader. Why would anyone tell Luke about it? They didn't even want to tell him Vader was his father never mind anything else that had happened.
     
  4. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    According to Uncle George (ESB audio commentary), there can be more than two Sith Lords. They just inevitably succumb to Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. Any time there are more than two, they go on a murder - spree until there are no more than two.

    It's not a religious dictate, or legal document with provisos or loopholes. It's a self correcting aspect of Sith psychology.
     
  5. Jmacq1

    Jmacq1 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    I think retroactively incorporating the Rule of Two into the OT works fine, and actually provides some nice symmetry in the sense that Palpatine is setting up Vader the same way that he set up Dooku, only this time Vader is on to it and trying to flip the script.

    Anyway, I'm sure it's been mentioned in the previous hundred-and-someodd pages of thread, but I found Maz Kanata's comment that "without the Jedi there can be no balance in the Force" an interesting one in the context of this thread's title. :)
     
  6. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    So who is up for a return of the Sith in ep8? They could be resurrected by revealing Snoke is Darth Plagueis and Kylo Ren is being trained to become a Sith lord. Or maybe in some other ingenious way?

    If it's done in a correct way, then I am all up for a return of the Sith! ^:)^:D
     
  7. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Do you even prophecy bro?
     
  8. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015

    Prophecy? [face_thinking]
     
  9. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    The Visual Dictionary states Kylo Ren is not a Sith apprentice or training to be a Sith of any sort.

    So, I lean towards no.
     
  10. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    The Sith will rise again. I'd like to see the Sith help destroy Snoke and his minions. The devil's best trick is to persuade you that he doesn't exist!
     
    Sitara likes this.
  11. Rylo_Ken

    Rylo_Ken Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Possiby but I hope not.

    I would like them to go down the route that both Snoke and Kylo have seen the Sith fail time and time again to defeat the Jedi and abandon the Sith ways.

    They create a new type of force users that embrace the dark side.

    I still find it interesting Kylo does not kneel down to Snoke, nor does he call him 'Master'. Clearly, Snoke has the power and Kylo is learning from him but I think that's a hint that this is not the classic Master-Apprentice Sith relationship.
     
    darklordoftech likes this.
  12. Straudenbecker

    Straudenbecker Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2015
    No, Anakin destroyed the Sith. Snoke and Kylo-Ren are not Siths but they do use the dark side.
     
    thejeditraitor likes this.
  13. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Well this is a wipeout. 80%+ for NO.

    No to the Sith returning.
     
  14. Yoda Fan

    Yoda Fan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Why not?

    Leia is back to the leader of a small resistance.

    Han WAS back as a smuggler but not any more. He had to cement his failure as a father first.

    Luke is back as an anonymous character on some far off planet poised to re-play the roles of Yoda and Ben Kenobi.

    The Sith and dark side seemed to be defeated by Luke and his Dad at the end of Return of the Jedi but apparently not.

    The Empire errr... First Order is back with another Skywalker wearing a mask that this one doesn't need that distorts his voice who eliminated the Jedi and sent the remaining ones into exile again. Never heard that one before. :rolleyes:

    And there seems to be a new Emperor too. So why not. I mean the reason they're not called Sith in this movie is because it may even wake some of the brain dead up to just how preposterous this whole thing is as a sequel to Return of The Jedi so they need to make up some lame way these bad guys still exist after the death of Vader and Palpatine and it looks like they'll need a few years to think of the least lame way to justify their existence.

    We're already hearing some theories on this board. Like there are fringe dark users who end up as powerful as Palpatine that somehow Palpatine and Vader and his Sith advisors can't sense and have no idea exist. Because after all Mr. "Take your Father's place at MY side." would have no problem with a rival or rivals floating around his Galaxy. No, not mister I killed my master in his sleep and "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi." No, this is a guy who likes to share power!!!:rolleyes:

    And that leads us to rationalization #2 that Snoke is Palpatine reincarnated or his Master that he never did actually kill in his sleep because these guys have found a way to become immortal and therefore they have cheated death and keep coming back. In which case why even bother resisting them since they can't die. Just give them the Galaxy because if you somehow defeat them they'll just come back again.

    Can you say....LAME!!!![face_talk_hand]

    No, the premises of this whole new Trilogy as a sequel to Return of the Jedi is preposterous.
     
  15. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    You got your same talking points for every post in every thread.
     
  16. Yoda Fan

    Yoda Fan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    "You got your same talking points for every post in every thread."

    Excuse me for having a brain that works. I apologize if that offends you.
     
  17. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Except that brain can't locate the quote function:p
     
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  18. Chained Prometheus

    Chained Prometheus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Nope. There's no need to bring in the Sith again; just expand on the different factions of the Force and let this trilogy have a new Dark Side group (like the Knights of Ren) that stands on their own, separate from the Sith.
     
  19. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    Or the edit function! [face_rofl]

    Chained Prometheus, I agree 100%.
     
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  20. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
  21. StarKiller81

    StarKiller81 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2014
    It's not happening. Time to move on.
     
    darklordoftech likes this.
  22. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2005
    And yet, from other material released alongside the film, we know the Emperor was certainly seeking something related to the dark side in the unknown regions of the galaxy. His advisors believed the Emperor was looking for the source of the dark side, and the Imperial elite were certainly aware of (and had helped develop) bases and research stations designed to seek this out. In fact, from materials related to the film (the official website and the visual dictionary), we know it may have been one such station that existed in Jakku.

    We don't know what this new element to the story is about yet, and I'm not suggesting Snoke is the source of the dark side, nor does any material suggest he is necessarily stronger than the Sith. But he is a dark sider, and leading Kylo Ren down the path to develop a new order of dark side users, different from the Jedi or the Sith, a lot wilder in some ways, if Ren is to serve as an example. The Emperor may not have been seeking for the dark side only in the unknown regions, but also for other dark siders, whether to eliminate or to bring under his rule. The Inquisitors did come from somewhere, after all. I don't believe they were all necessarily former Jedi.

    Although it's true many elements in TFA are very reminiscient of the OT, and especially ANH, that's only a surface-level analysis of the story and characters. Most of these groups, though strongly parallel, are quite different when you think or read more about them. That makes TFA a familiar echo, but the starting point of a very different story that certainly seems to be focused on widening our view of the Star Wars galaxy.
     
  23. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    I just want compelling characters and not more mustache twirling 2D bad guys.
     
  24. Order 66

    Order 66 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    But by definition, what are the "Sith"? If we view them as evil darkside users who want to vanquish the Jedi and control the galaxy, then isn't that essentially what we have going with Snoke and Ren? The Sith embody the darkside. IMO it doesn't really make sense to just introduce a new group of darksiders who have no connection whatsoever to the sith.

    Also, if Ren really models himself after his grandfather, you'd think he would seek to become a Sith like his grandfather was.... Right?

    I think there is definitely something deeper going on with the overarching plot. It definitely won't just be a rehash of the classic "Sith and his apprentice" storyline. Maybe Snoke wants to raise up an army of darkside users reminiscent of the Old Republic? The army of darkside users will combat the new order of Jedi that Luke and Rey ultimately create.
     
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  25. Delta-7

    Delta-7 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Yes. I am okay with being in the minority in this but I like the idea of the eternal battle of Jedi vs Sith. This is one of the reasons I prescribe to the idea (no matter how unlikely it actually is) that Snoke is either Plaguis or something else Sith.