The Force & The Ring (possible SbS spoilers)

I thought this would be a good discussion topic. Can you find any similarities between the two? Or are they completely different and incomparable?


Here are my thoughts...

In "celebration" of LOTR, I want to write a "short" essay about LOTR, Star Wars and Jacen Solo.

The thesis of this essay means to connect - for those of that are familiar with it - the One Ring with the Force. I contend that on many levels, these two are one in the same on two different realms - Middle Earth and the GFFA. Same how? The premise of my argument claims that power - no matter the form - inevitably draws out the potential for corruption.

I know and completely understand that the similarities between the two - the Ring and the Force - are few and far in between. In fact, you may be able to come up with a longer list of differences. But for myself, the significance of the similarities far outweigh the differences. For what are they really? The Force and the One Ring are - stripped of their frosting and ornamental decorations sort of speak - imbalanced power devices.

Wherever there exists power which hoists a person "above" the abilities of the average person, there is always potential for corruption by the wielder of this power. Let's face it, it is human nature to exploit advantages we have over others. Therefore, the responsibility and burden of those wielding the power becomes gargantuan. I think Jacen Solo feels exactly the same way. That is not to say those that are flawed in using the power or "somewhat" corrupted by it are altogether uninteresting to the story - quite the opposite actually. For the purposes of this essay, though, please indulge me.

Imbalanced sources of power tend to vary in the degree with which they are employed by different wielders and at different times. In the beginning, this power may be used for good and with a heavy sense of responsibility. For example, even though the Ring is entirely evil, we do see Bilbo Baggins use it for good purposes in The Hobbit. The problems come in times of personal and broad-based crises where the burden of using one's power is heightened. During such times of war, for instance, sources of imbalanced power tend to draw out evil where it shows the most potential to exist. With the Ring, it was in Saruman and particularly Boromir, who believed the Ring alone could save legions of his people.

Similarly, the Dark Side has a tendency to draw out those most susceptible to its path during times of extreme crises. The war the GFFA is fighting now in the NJO qualifies as such a crisis. The weaker and far easier path always draws one to embrace power to the extent where methods and real motivations are no longer questioned. Those that follow in such paths are utterly weak; they fail to carry the burden of responsibility exactly during those times which require it the most. There is a great sense of urgency in doing something with power during desperate times. This urgency - well documented - goes something like this: Jedi cannot sit back in a defensive posture when their power could help thousands. This sentiment sounds dangerously similar to Boromir's views toward the Ring in LOTR. It is precisely these sort of claims which are the precursor to the weaker and far easier path towards corruption where you decide and do things with your power as you see fit.

Let's look at Jaina's turn for just a minute in light of SbS. Am I saying saying Jaina is weak? Yes, I am. I understand her personal loss and suffering, but she is certainly not the only one to endure it in the GFFA. I think it would be safe to assume that countless others in the GFFA have lost far more than Jaina. But for Jaina, the burden of responsibility for wielding power weighs heavily upon her, as for all Jedi. When she forsakes this burden in favor of a weaker path, she corrupts and abuses her power in favor of easy and short-term results. Brash and reckless behavior with the Force - seemingly innocuous - a

 

very impressive...u must have spent a long time thinking about it!

it's just too late at night for me to get involved in a philosophical debate!

 

Yup, yup. You're totally right...

So I see you've taken the first step down the socio-anarchistic road. Have fun!

 

I would read your essay closer, Vergere, except that I haven't yet read the NJO and want some surprises left for me concerning Jacen and the Solo kids.

 

Intresting. Reminds me somewhat of my deranged Star Wars/Arthurian Legends comparision. Only, this is much easier to follow.

While we're talking, and getting of subject, I just saw LOTR tonight. And if I'm not mistaken, which I may be, there looked to be a brief homage to TPM in it. Towards the end of the movie, right after they get out of their boats and before Frodo and Sam leave everyone else for Mordor, one of the statues is shown briefly on a side view. And it looked like one of Boss Nass's aides. Every other scene it was shown it appeared human. But for a brief second when they first showed it, it was a Gungan. Like I say, probably just me. But I didn't have Star Wars on my mind when I saw that scene. So if it is a homage, pretty nice of them to add something familar to Star Wars fans.

 

Good essay. Excellent points.

It's hard to figure out where to draw the line, isn't it? Do the Jedi remain passive to their own (and everyone else's) extinction? When is enough enough?

Jaina was weak, but she was also right. How many perversions will the evil Vong be allowed to commit, before someone puts their foot down? The questions go round and round, and always leave themselves unresolved.

 

Interesting about that Nass statue, Knight. I'll have to see it a third time to confirm

 

-Vergere-,

Interesting observations really. However, I don't believe that this one fact - the essence of your essay - can be dismeissed so easily when one looks at Jacen Solo...

"The Force and the One Ring are - stripped of their frosting and ornamental decorations sort of speak - imbalanced power devices."

A simplistic observation you, which I note you did touch upon. However, these two imbalanced power devices are entirely different from each other.

The Ring was forged in the fires of evil, for the purpose of corruption. The mere handling of it corrupts those. That's to say, if you gave someone The Ring without any knowledge of what it is or what it can do, they by default will move towards corruption because it is the will of the Ring.

This is not the case with the Force. The Force, if one accepts early drafts, in concept is a tool for good and does not inherently carry with it the pressure of corruption. It has been suggested by Lucas that there existed good before there existed evil, that the Dark Side of the Force was a corruption of the existing Light Side. It remains to be seen if he sticks with this for the remainder of the PT. But, the point remains that the Force has two definite aspects to it - the Light Side and the Dark Side. One can use the Light Side all day and never take a step towards the corruptive influences of the Dark Side.

I would suggest that this is the major flaw in Jacen's philosophy - he's overlooked that fact. A Jedi doing justice and calmly defending against evil can tap into infinite power and never be corrupted. Jacen has taken a "worry" to the extreme and it has caused him to act incorrectly.

This is wholly different from the Ring. A "Jedi" righteously doing justice and calmly defending against evil will still be corrupted by the Ring where he would not by the Force.

That to me is a difference which cannot be overlooked.

 

G12,

The differences you raise are significant and valid afterall. The Force can be used for good - not necessarily so with the Ring (despite Bilbo's good travails in The Habbit, it did corrupt him in the end)

A simplistic observation [regarding my comparison of the Ring and the Force]

Yes, simple, but not necessarily incorrect. In the Star Wars world, we see potential for both good and evil with the Force. But let me ask you this. Can any Jedi honestly say they have not fallen to the Dark Side and its vices to some extent? Even when Jedi believe they are using their power - the Force - for good, is it not arguable that they're really not? And in some way, are they not askewing their notion of "good" to fit their purposes? The essential thesis of my essay remains. Imbalanced power - no matter the form - corrupts during times of war and otherwise desperate crises.

One can use the Light Side all day and never take a step towards the corruptive influences of the Dark Side.

True, and despite your claim to the contrary, I don't believe Jacen has overlooked this at all. Yes, he may be judgemental of others, but I don't think Jacen will ever deny the fact that the Force can be good. If he felt the Force is entirely evil like the Ring, he would never use it.

Once again the differences you raise to do good with the Force are significant. But that does not excuse the fact that during times of war, that notion of a "Jedi righteously doing justice" is askewed as one sees fit. It is precisely during these times when power is most easily abused for the sake of justice and righteousness.

The sentiment that an aggressive and offensive Jedi can save thousands during war remains dangerous for those that wield power. This sort of feeling is the precursor to an utterly weak path for those that wish to forego the heavy responsibility that comes with power.

 

Excellent post Vergere. Many good points were made. Wedge, i recall seeing that statue that you mentioned, but it didn't strike me as a gungan..or ANY Sw character for that matter. Anyways, i just wanted to put in that the Force is only able to be used with those who have high midiclorians (speling) and are able to "here" them and use them for benifit. The Ring on the other hand may be used by ANY person, the spirit of Sauron is in it. In the Council of Elrond the Ring called to everyone, including Argon and Gandalf (as we see earlier in the movie). They are alike in many ways yes, but i belive that this one factor also sets them greatly apart. Also, the Ring takes on a faster approach to the "dark side" if u will. I forgot his name, but the king who killed Sauron wanted to keep the ring and its power just hours after he had recovered. Generally the Force drums to a slower beat, but of course their are always exceptions

 

Another very relevant (and good) difference you point out, HandofThrawn. The Ring doesn't discriminate as much as the Force.

 

Vergere, it's not a Nass statue. It looks like one of those hooded aides of his. Except for their black cloaks and robes, they look like all other Gungans. That's what I saw. And it was only on screen for all of a second. But if you see the same thing, maybe I'm right and there is a Star Wars homage in LOTR. Kinda an easter egg type of thing.

 

Allow me to trivialize this great philosophical thingy:


Force = Living Power

Power corrupts, too much raw use of the force and your on the 'dark' side.

Those who seek balance in all things are on the 'light' side.

Balance good. Unbalanced bad.


Examples: Emperor used so much raw force when he died his collapse ripped waves through the force.


Obi-Wan and Yoda lived in harmony with nature drawing on the force as well as letting it control them. Through this balance and denial of power they never left the force feeling ripped off. And so they, as one with the force, could 'exist' after death. Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anikin went to their graves willingly and calmly.

The Vong, dwelling on the darkside too heavily, lost all contact with the force.

In seeking power you lose it.

Jedi only meant to spread balance.

Just because some don't have force potential does not mean they are unnafected by the struggle for balance. They just aren't as attuned to the universe on such scale.

 

Ah, Knight. I still have to see it a third time for the details in the background

Interesting simplification, mr.binks.

 

Hhhmmm. This is very interesting. I saw LOTR when it came out but before the movie I had never had an intrest in it. Through the movie I was thinking the same thing. The Ring and the Force are very much alike. Oh, I didn't notice the Gungan statue. It looked like a human to me.

 

The ring is Evil, Suraun has put bits and pieces of himself into the ring, so he is the ring. it is evil, as I said, but the Force can be manipulated for good or for evil. The ring has a mind of his own. I should have capialized the word Ring...