The Force Unleashed - score

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Kwenn, Apr 29, 2008.

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  1. mandalore15 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 29, 2000
    star 1
    Many thanks for the suggestion Cerrabore. Downloaded the Firefox plug-in and am now enjoying The Force Unleashed score on my iPod. Kudos!
  2. WedgeWalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2008
    star 2
    Sounds good.

    But, gotta say, I'm still ok with Kiner doing the TCW score. If you listen to the interviews with him, it's clear that the new musical direction was partially his idea, but also partially Lucas'. So we'd be getting this new kind of vibe with TCW regardless of who scored it.

    And I don't mind the experimental (for Star Wars) nature of it.

    But for a more traditional SW score, TFU seems pretty good.
  3. mandalore15 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 29, 2000
    star 1
    I really enjoy Kiner's work, and I think the experimental nature of his music will really shine once the series gets underway. New music for new characters and new places. My small gripe with the score is that for such an Obi-Wan and Anakin centric story, we got very little established musical association with those characters. No Anakin's Theme (or variation on the Imperial March). Two quotes of the Force theme. No Jabba's Theme, etc. One of the criticisms that has been directed toward the film is the lack of familiar music, and I agree with that to some degree.
    I also recognize that Kiner is not going to be working with an 80-piece orchestra on a weekly basis, so a change in musical style and direction may also be a practical matter as well as an aesthetic one. Better to create a new sound than to imitate Williams with a 30-piece orchestra.

    Perhaps my comparison of Griskey and Kiner's work wasn't fair to Kiner. But in the end I still prefer the sound of Griskey's score.


  4. Kwenn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    Does anyone know of a similar plug-in for Internet Explorer? The only one I have is the RealPlayer downloader, which doesn't work on that site.
  5. mandalore15 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 29, 2000
    star 1
    I don't think IE has a similar plug-in that works as easily as the Firefox application. I would recommend downloading Firefox plus the plug-in. In many ways I believe that Firefox is a superior browser to IE. It's free to download and easy to uninstall if you don't like it.

    Give it a shot. You may be surprised. And at the very least you'll be able to grab a high-quality download of the score for TFU.
  6. WedgeWalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2008
    star 2
    As do I. More use of established themes would have been nice...especially with Jabba and Sidious, who even in the prequels tended to have their themes front and center whenever they show up.

    I'm wondering...might licensing fees have anything to do with it?
  7. Cerrabore Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Given that Kiner did use Luke's theme, Vader's theme, the Force theme, Lando's Palace, Mos Eisley Spaceport, Return to Naboo and Duel of the Fates, no. I'm betting it was just ignorance on his part or a directive from Lucas to write "cool" music.
  8. Kwenn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    Just downloaded Firefox (thanks for the tip, Mandalore) and the tracks. Has a definite flavour of "The Sith Lords" about it, which is no bad thing. It's also great to hear good usage of the movie themes after Clone Wars: the big, Force Theme fanfare in "General Kota"; the action sequence closing "Junk Temple"... as far as I've got at the minute, but I wish the full score was going to be released -- I'd take it over Clone Wars any day.

    EDIT: Noticed a Duel of the Fates style chorus around 00:58 in "Drexl's Riders"... and of course that big Imperial March refrain right after! Lovely.
  9. Cerrabore Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I noticed a variation on "Duel of the Fates" in "The Sarlacc Unleashed."
  10. Kwenn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    Indeed; that sounded very cool. The last section of "PROXY and the Skyhook", short as it is, exudes classic Star Wars; a real old-school action piece. And I love Juno's Theme in the "Finale" track; Griskey seems to have taken his cues from various Williams love themes; reminiscient of Han Solo and the Princess, Across the Stars and even Marion's Theme. I'd've liked the Finale track to actually segue into the End Credits theme, as I assume it's supposed to.
  11. Cerrabore Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I would have loved original recordings of "Main Title" and "End Title," but I guess that was too much to hope for from a videogame. They didn't even do it for Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. By the way, the reason "PROXY and the Skyhook" sounds like classic Star Wars action is because a large part of it incorporates "The Battle of Yavin." ;)
  12. rodan70 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2002
    star 4
    After listening to the Score and reading the book, I'm so excited about this game. The music is definately top of the line.
  13. WedgeWalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2008
    star 2
    But, technically, many of those aren't actually in the score...just variations and take-offs of them. And unless I've forgotten my music licensing class, you don't have to pay license fees if you write something that kinda sounds like something else (unless the author of the original work sues you).

    By the way, you neglected to mention that one of the tracks (involving Padme, I think) is definitely riffing off of the landing pad battle in AotC.


    As to it being ignorance on his part...he's a composer for television and film, and has been one for a while now. You really think that he's just ignorant, but you (who presumably don't work as a composer) aren't? No offense intended at all...but that seems illogical.

    As to it being a directive from Lucas to write "cool" music..."Cool" wouldn't necessarily mean "doesn't include established themes." So that doesn't seem reasonable either.

    I get it though. You would have liked more direct quoting of classic SW themes. So would I.

    But that's not what we got. And unless Kiner or Lucas tells us, we're not going to know exactly why. No sense insulting and bashing the two without good reason.
  14. Cerrabore Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    So you figure Lucasfilm's music department licensed five themes but was too cheap to go for seven? I seriously doubt it came down to such a thin financial line.

    Huh? What does my line of work have to do with it? (Incidentally, I'm in college studying to work as a composer.) My point is that I know the Star Wars scores forward and back and Kiner clearly doesn't. If I was given the job of writing an original Star Wars score, I'd pay careful attention to Williams' themes - I'm not saying I'd use them all or even at all, but if I did I'd use them carefully. I suppose you could say that as a working man, Kiner didn't have time to study Williams' scores. Yet Griskey did, as he explained in an interview.
  15. ChimealHeltei Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    I definately think Kiner studied JW's scores! Otherwise he wouldn't have included all those tiny hints, you only notice when listening carefully to the CW score. IMHO it's easy to just use some original themes and incorporate them into a new score, but it's even harder to take those little pieces out of a score (much more descent than using whole themes) and arrange them into something new. This is much more innovative than just incorporating established themes.

    But I would also like to mention that I really like the TFU promo tracks as well. But Kiner's work is something new and fresh to Star Wars, just like the movie itself.
  16. Kwenn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    I agree that what themes Kliner uses are used well; "Lando's Palace" reworked as the Republic fanfare, for instance, provides a nice opener to the film. It's just a shame that there wasn't more of it: no "Across the Stars" when Padmé delivers her message? No Force Theme until the final shot, when there's any number of 'heroic' moments it could have underscored? No Emperor's Theme, Yoda's Theme, Jabba's Theme? In a film that paints well-known characters big and bold on the screen, I think it needed big, bold renditions of well-known themes to accompany it.

    Griskey's score, while suited for a darker story, manages to capture the scale of what The Force Unleashed promises: we get big, epic samples of "The Imperial March", The Force Theme and others; and there's subtler uses too, such as his Duel of the Fates variant in "Sarlacc Unleashed", a version of the Episode II mystery theme at the start of "Approaching Felucia", as well as Juno's Theme being saturated in Williams' love themes.
  17. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    yeah, but if 95% of what is so brilliant about TFU is that it has all those movie themes, how is it so much better than the "score" to Jedi Knight? If you want the movie themes in dozens of variations, listen to the 6 movie scores.
    If the lack of this is bad in CW, then the abundance of it is bad in a game that has nothing to do with anything the themes are for. If anything TFU is a step back in SW video game music after KotOR, Republic Commando and even Empire at War (and that one is right in the middle of the trilogy, it didn't even need anything new).
  18. Kwenn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    It's not simply the use of the themes; it's how they're worked in. And these are new variations, which I'm always a sucker for anyway. I'd have liked to hear more established themes rising out of the mix in Clone Wars; I don't want an utterly recycled score, otherwise it'd probably sound like the hack job made to the Episode III score.

    And no, I've not played the game yet, but I'd imagine The Force Theme and the Imperial March at least are relevant to the story and action; so I don't think it's "nothing to do with anything the themes are for." I think Griskey strikes a good balance between established themes and original material. I certainly wouldn't like the score half as much without, say, Juno's Theme or the title track.

    Original is good, but considering Williams is such a big part of Star Wars, I find it remiss when composers don't use anything above the Main Title. Even Joel McNeely lamented the fact that he rushed his Shadows of the Empire score through without using more established cues.

    Maybe it's just a personal preference, but I like my Star Wars music to be John Williams music. I didn't much care for Republic Commando, and Clone Wars just feels sadly lacking.
  19. Cerrabore Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Have you actually listened to TFU?
  20. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    yes, and moreover, I've read the comments in the threads here and just. don't. get it. Even if you go out of your way to highlight the new arrangements and the few noteworthy bits of new material, it's still little more than "we're glad we get the SW scores again". So, maybe I exaggerated a little for effect, but how is it not a step back in light of all the other stuff we got in recent years?
    It's also symptomatic of what Star Wars is like at the moment overall. But I've ranted about that in CT and LACWAC already...
  21. Cerrabore Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    It's great music. I can't listen to Clone Wars anymore; it reeks of cheapness.

    I really have no clue how you can say TFU is little more than an adaptation of Williams' music. Griskey rarely states Williams' themes outright, referencing only the first few bars of them. Half the tracks have no references to Williams at all. How could you prefer Empire at War? That's almost a nonstop adaptation of Williams' music, though Forces of Corruption added more original material. And it's all just synth music.

    As for what Star Wars is like right now, well, I think Clone Wars sums it up: a cheesy, amateurly written, commercialistic husk of a once awesome series of movies (okay, two movies). Just because Kiner strayed farther from the Williams sound doesn't mean his original music is any good. It isn't original music. It's temp music, it's trailer music. It's as flat, unambitious and pop-influenced as you could get.
  22. rodan70 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2002
    star 4

    Couldn't have said better myself. Clone Wars Score sounds like it was made by a 5 year old with a dollar Store keyboard in 10 minutes. TFU sounds amazing.
  23. Cellist Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2003
    star 4
    Wow...I'm listening to this right now. Sadly, some of this sounds better than some of Williams' prequel work.

    EDIT: Oh wow. That segue from Juno's theme into the "end credits" is absolutely perfect. I wish I could say the same for TPM and ROTS' endings. It's all about the V-I chord progression.

  24. Cerrabore Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I'm afraid I have to agree with you. I would never claim that Griskey wrote anything as good as "Duel of the Fates" or "Anakin's Theme," but some of this incidental and action music blows Williams' disjointed prequel underscore out of the water. And it does bug me that Williams couldn't manage a good transition to the end credits in Revenge of the Sith (or in Jedi's "Victory Celebration"). V-I works!
  25. Cellist Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2003
    star 4
    My creativity got the best of me. I went ahead and mixed the final Juno track with the "end credits" music from the prequels. Now I am complete.:p

    [link=http://www.freewebs.com/commander_thigh/forceunleashed.mp3]http://www.freewebs.com/commander_thigh/forceunleashed.mp3[/link]

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