The Force Unleashed: The Multimedia EU Event of '08 (and beyond!)

Because anyone who can understand that unnatural gibberish MUST be a darksider.

 

So that's what Palpatine meant when he told Anakin about the dark side leading to unnatural abilities!

 

I just had a horrible thought. What is there to stop LA from releasing TFU3 as DLC for TFU2, of a similar length and price, saving them printing and shipping and marketing?

Because I've just traded my copy of TFU2.

And LA will get my money for this twice. Twice.

Tricky.

 

For my part, I can't say I consider it completely outside the realms of possibility. They've probably pushed the current generation of consoles as far as they can go (TFU2 was not hugely different to TFU1 to begin with) so they could say that it'd cut production costs to design what amounted to an "expansion" rather than a full blown "sequel".

For example, though it was released on disc as well, I downloaded Dragon Age: Awakening as DLC rather than buying it. And on the other end of the spectrum, Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood was released as a stand-alone game, but could virtually be considered a very big expansion to AC2 (it's a full game, certainly, but I get the impression that Ubisoft have hit the same technological wall as LA with TFU1/2).

I suppose, if they did happen to release some kind of expansion rather than an actual sequel per se, they'd probably release it on disc similar to the Ultimate Sith Edition, so you'd only need to buy that. Whether it'd be value for money paying full price for what was "only" an expansion would obviously depend on how big it actually was though.

On an unrelated (or only quasi-related) note, I downloaded the Endor level today.

Can't say I was that impressed.

I almost felt as if the first half of the level in the jungle had been made for TFU1, as the graphics of the trees, etc, seemed so primitive to the backdrops we got in TFU2. The big trees you could blow bark off seemed to have been taken from the Kashyyyk level. I still say the Endor level should have finished the Infinities story of the TFU1 DLC, and the poor production quality here reaffirms that view.

Once you get inside the reactor area, things seemed to improve a bit. The level design was still rather dull, but at least the Leia fight had had some effort put into it (can't say the same for the Han and Chewie battle, which just felt like an AT-ST with a bigger health bar).

The exchange between Palps and Vader was probably the best part. I liked seeing Palps show that his lightning trumps Starkiller's any day. I also liked the final shot of the Star Destroyers coming to take out the clone. That said, the ending suggests another DLC to follow-up from this, which I'm not as excited by, since I was hoping the next DLC might be something to continue the game, not more Infinities.

Paying for DLC does not in itself bother me, nor does the price particularly bother me either. What bugs me, though, is how this feels rather... well... hurriedly put together. If they want us to pay for it, then I class it as very borderline between just "DLC" and being an "Infinities Expansion Pack". Free Just-For-Fun-DLC I don't mind reusing the same old skins and textures, but when it's got a price tag it'd be nice if we got TFU2 quality graphics et al, rather than something that feels like a TFU1 port.

 

The last thing offered, was the first thing made.

How ironic it would if by making FU-one's infinities-based DLC, they decided that the secret, secret dark apprentice should be THE hidden protagonist for the sequel. And then, somehow that changed....


Wondering now, what REALLY forced Blackman to WANT to quit?

 

Is the Dark Apprentice cannon? Pretty sure that he is not because he is in the dark side ending (extra cutscenes don't count as a source), but I just wanted to hear your guys's thoughts.

 

He's the main character in the Distant Thunder story (which is unlocked by completing the various trials in challenge mode), and it seems strange that they'd even bother with that story if it had no purpose or value. Also, he appears in one of Starkiller's visions in the novel.

 

Vader's surrender also makes more sense if he had some cloaked monster hanging in the background throughout the duel, along with Boba to track the ship.

 

Really? Awesome! Page Reference! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME!

 

Do you guys really need to have every Star Wars source reinforce the Dark Side Starkiller's existence? Isn't one canon source enough for you guys?

Edit: Anyway what is interesting about Starkiller's vision in the novel is that he foresees the Dark Side ending of The Force Unleashed 2 down to the letter, the evil clone stabbing him from behind, Juno dying, and Vader getting up as if nothing had happened, all of it. When Starkiller defeats Vader in the novel he is quite perplexed that his vision didn't come true, and goes on to muse that he feels that Vader isn't truly beaten and has something planned. Canon sources sure do help don't they?

 

Yes! He... he should be digitally inserted into a new ANH SE SE! The Dark Apprentice must prevail!

 

haven't read it, but it sure sounds like some simple "tip to the hat" to the dark side ending. it obviously can't be in the novel, but make it a vision of an "alternate outcome" and you've covered a bit more of what a gamer can get out of the game. especially since non-canon dark side stuff is the part that's declared the fun stuff (otherwise, why do that whole dark side story bonus levels). interpreting it as a hidden preview on supposed future story elements is a bit much.

 

I always thought the Dark Apprentice stuff was non-canon and, with regard to Distant Thunder and the Endor DLC, exist primarily to give insight into Vader's true motives. Palpatine thinks Starkiller is dead, so Vader wants to re-establish Starkiller as his apprentice to overthrow Palpatine -- something that wasn't possible in TFU1 since it's implied that Palpatine knew about Starkiller all along.

I'm in the boat of believing that the protagonist of the game is the original Starkiller. The databank calls the Dark Apprentice the only "perfect clone" of Starkiller, and the entry for the true Starkiller shows the protagonist in the game's promotional arena costume (the one from the trailers).

I'm also inclined to believe that the Dark Apprentice doesn't exist in canon simply because the light side ending is contingent upon him not existing. My reading of the story is basically that Vader did to Starkiller what the Jedi Council did to Revan, but instead of giving him an alternate name and history, just told him he was a clone. This is after convincing Palpatine that Starkiller is dead, but reviving him the same means that he revived him aboard the Emprical... it would make sense that Vader would have a vested interest in such technology after the fate of his wife.

 

Staarkiller isn't considered "perfect" due to his emotional state and subsequent potential lightsidedness, or so I thought. Vader even says that he's going to continue to use Staarkiller's connection with Juno to control him. The Dark Apprentice is called the only perfect clone because of not having these issues.

 

Bingo. The Dark Apprentice is the only one to overcome getting flashes of the original Galen's memories- compare his absolute certainty in his path to the crazy emoness of Gaaaalen shouting "JUNO!" every three seconds, and it's obvious why the playable clone is considered a failure.

 

I'm looking at the databank again, and here's another hint the "Distant Thunder" is either non-canon, or has some trickery:

"Entry 35
Another complete failure. While the subject's base genetic code remains intact, the physical expressions have been... unsettling. The contents of the last tank we drained emitted a piercing howl despite a total lack of any visible mouth. If only we could look closer at the original subject..."

The journal entries in databank entry for the Dark Apprentice also imply that he was the only clone which was stable at all, which would seemingly preclude the protagonist. Just my reading of it. I guess his databank entry would suggest that he existed, though it's curious that he doesn't appear in the light side ending, unless he's on the Slave 1 with Fett or something.

 

Uhm, I'm not sure you CAN consider TFU2's protagonist "stable"...

As for the "if only we could look closer at the original subject", this is from the scientists' POV, right? It's always possible that- SURPRISE!- Vader doesn't want anyone looking in his personal trophy case. They might start asking... questions. Besides, they don't ask simply to "look at the original subject", they lament being unable to "look CLOSER at the original subject"- implying they have it, but Vader isn't letting them do any in-depth examinations of the corpse.

The reason the Dark Apprentice didn't appear in the light side ending is perfectly explained in the Distant Thunder cinematics- Vader DOES tell the Dark Apprentice to show up if he's genuinely in danger, and to stay out of sight otherwise. Now, I'm not sure about you, but putting Vader in restraints that he's shown he can unlock in the same game doesn't constitute putting Vader's life at risk. Ergo, everything's self-consistent.

Vader WANTED to be captured. That was the plan- but the Dark Apprentice would only show up if Galen decided "Kark taking him captive- I'm killing him NOW!"

Also, note how the Dark Apprentice comes out of some crazy Force cloak to kill the protagonist if you choose the dark side ending. Can we really say he WASN'T standing behind Galen in the light side ending if he's proven that he can go completely invisible?

Adding in the vision from the novel sort of just reinforces that the Dark Apprentice was there- just not visible as per Vader's orders. It's a brilliant strategy, with enough of the evidence squarely in canon that it helps bring the sequel up to one of the best Vader portrayals in ages from where it would be otherwise.

 

Right. Think about this: theoretically, the only difference between the lightside and darkside ending of any given game is the choice the character makes. Deciding to kill Vader would not retroactively spawn a working clone and legion of terror troopers into existence.

Ergo, the Dark Apprentice and Terror Troopers were there the whole time, unnoticed.

Plus, in distant thunder, Vader specifically orders the DA to not attack unless something goes wrong. This fits very well with the idea that being captured was the ruse, and the DA and his goons were backup in case Vader was ever even slightly in danger.

 

In Distant Thunder, Vader says "It is time. Your final test awaits you tonight, on the spire above. Do not strike until you are needed. When the moment arrives, show no weakness."

He doesn't say anything about acting only if something goes wrong, and suggests that the Dark Apprentice's final test is to be taken that very night, with the implication being that he has to eliminate his other self. I would think that if the writer or whomever wanted us to believe without a doubt that there was a plan for Vader to be captured, and to explain why the Dark Apprentice doesn't act in the canon ending (apart from my belief upon seeing them both that it was because he didn't exist in that ending), it would have made a lot more sense to have Vader explain that it was his intent to be captured in Distant Thunder.

Likewise with regard to the whole "If only we could look closer at the original subject..." line in the aberrant clone databank entry, certainly there are rationalizations for that line, but the actual person that wrote the line put it there for a reason. I don't think it's just window dressing with no actual meaning inherent to it, but intended to arouse suspicion in the reader that the protagonist is the original Starkiller, and not a clone.

That said, I don't doubt the potential for the Dark Apprentice to be a true canon character, but I'm not certain that he is. As far as I know, the dark side ending is non-canon, and that Distant Thunder, as a direct preface to that, is currently the same. The fact that Vader's final lines in Distant Thunder seem to be directly referring to the events that eventually do occur in the dark side ending do nothing to erase that suspicion, only reinforce it. What was the Dark Apprentice to do, what was his final test, if he wasn't to kill Starkiller?

If the Dark Apprentice pops up in another story (besides the non-canon Endor DLC), then I'll revise my belief. If there's some sort of declaration from Leland Chee or someone else, I'm not sure if Blackman would qualify any longer, that Distant Thunder is canon, then I'll withdraw my "Yeah, but..." Maybe I'm wrong and the Dark Apprentice was to be featured heavily in the third game, as a means of discrediting Starkiller within the Rebel Alliance and to explain his absence when the original trilogy rolls around. I suppose we'll find out if the game is restarted, or Williams is given the green light to write a third novel sans game. It certainly makes sense.

Anyway, I have no further interest in debating it. I see the merits in both arguments, and having the Dark Apprentice feature in TFU3 makes a lot of sense.

 

Vader telling the Dark Apprentice to strike when he is needed does not specify when he would be needed. However the Dark Side ending always revolves around the choice of the character at the end, I find it very convenient that the Dark Apprentice only strikes when Starkiller decides to strike Vader down and not when he decides to imprison him. This implies that his moment to strike would have revolved upon whether or not his counterpart was going to spare Vader or kill him, if he spares him then Vader still controls his destiny but if not he already has a perfect apprentice who is at the ready to save him. The Dark Apprentice was always there, his intervention simply revolved around your choice which would have been his moment to strike as per Vader's orders.

This ties into Vader's plan in that if Starkiller decides to spare him then he can manipulate him to join his side at a later date as he tells him, "So long as she (Juno) lives I will always control you." And as a consolation prize Starkiller is bringing him to a rebel base where the Dark Apprentice and him can demolish the Rebellion from the inside out, Vader's plan is all about sacrificing a single battle so that he can win the war. Genius.

 

I must be missing your point here.

TFU 2 starts on Kamino. And presumably the clone inside the tank on the website was 1126 as well. So how does it make sense that the cloners would say "I wish we had the original" if the original is right there to be observed and tested? Then the line would seem to support the original being dead or kept away, as is suspected. You are right the line probably serves a puspose, but from where I'm sitting, that purpose seems to be the exact opposite of what you are thinking, namely to reinforce the idea that 1126 is a clone, and the original truly secreted away somewhere by Vader.

 

In the lightside ending, the DA wasn't needed because Vader wasn't REALLY in danger. That's how I saw it, anyways....

 

Exactly. No need to protect the Boss Man from a wimpy light side loser who didn't want to hurt an unarmed target.

 

And had the Dark Apprentice allowed himself to become impatient, to let his anger drive him to strike when Vader wasn't in danger, that would be showing a sign of weakness. He'd be just like Vaderkin was on Mustafar- and that's not a weakness Vader wants in his "perfect apprentice".

Ergo, in deciding not to strike just then, that too could be his test. The knowledge of when to strike, and when to hold.

 

Played the last two levels again last nite....
Man, was Rhett-2.0 mentally losing-it at the end?

Or, was that just me?

The Rebels might be in for a BIGGER surprise than a cloaked assassin in the cargo-hold with Vader. Their poster-child for fighting the Empire is about to flip his own brain-biscuits and burn the whole batch. That dude was beyond EMO when was screaming at Lohrrrd Vaye-duh. Monster, indeed.