The Force's portrayal worsens with each movie.

The original 1977 Star Wars is the finest movie ever made. Its sequels, however, are of ever declining quality. The entire EU is worse than worthless; TPM is painful and boring; the Special Editions are nothing less than vandalism; ROTJ is disappointing; and ESB, while an enjoyable movie, dilutes the magic and contradicts the genius of the original.

The main reason for this increasing deterioration is the adulteration and exploitation of the Force and of the Jedi. In the original movie the Force was numinous and presented with admirable restraint. Kenobi used the Force to delude weak-minded stormtroopers, and he sensed the destruction of Alderaan; Vader used the dark side to choke Motti and to dimly sense Kenobi on the Death Star; and, of course, in the movie's climax Luke used the Force to destroy the Death Star. And that is about it.

When I first saw Luke use the Force in ESB to telekinetically move his lightsabre my ten-year-old heart revolted within me. I was positively repulsed to see rocks, R2-D2, and an X-wing moved in the same way. This is more like a comic book super-power than a mystical energy. Kenobi's ghostly form is crass compared to the doubtfully heard voice in the original. Yoda is an irritating and out-of-place character. Old Ben was the last of the Jedi. This leaves no place for other Jedi (which crop up unceasingly in the EU). The Emperor is incorrectly and prematurely portrayed. Tarkin's words to Vader ("You, my friend, are all that's left of [the Jedi's] religion.") leave no room for an Emperor who knows the Force. Finally, making Vader Luke's father is the single worst decision in ESB, contradicting the letter and the spirit of the original.

In ROTJ and TPM the Force is completely presented in comic book fashion, what with all the backflips and constant telekinesis. The religious feeling of Star Wars is traded for super powers. As monsters in horror movies are more terrible the less they are shown, so the Force is more mystical and mysterious the less it is used.

Alas for Star Wars. Alas for what might have been. But at least I can still watch the original and be moved by wonder. And I can still imagine the true further adventures of Luke Skywalker.

 

Well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions....

 

I agree with everything except your distaste for ESB. Man, I've never heard anyone dis Yoda. There's something blasphemous about that!

 

This guy is in the smallest minority of bashers I've ever seen. Even the usual basher wouldn't agree with most of the things he said!

 

Exactly what do you like about Star Wars?

 

Gee, for a SW fan, you are scathing in your critism.


Here's 40 cents........

 

I agree with the thought that ANH is the most enjoyable movie, and I know I'm in the minority on this one. However, this is where our agreement ends, Binary.

ESB brought a little complexity to the story (ie Luke's father, a hidden Jedi master, etc). Can you name another sequel (besides maybe Godfather II) that can even hold a candle to the original? You could probably count them on one hand.

The force became more fleshed out in successive films. The reason for it to be so ever-present in TPM was that the Jedi were not yet outlawed and they could display their talents wherever they pleased. In ANH, Obi-Wan didn't have the luxury of announcing his presence as a Jedi without attracting a huge amount of attention. If we didn't learn any more about the force than we knew in ANH, it would be very boring to say the least.

 

I understand where you are coming from Binary. I too feel ANH is the strongest of the OT (Although ESB is very very close).

The force could have remained a little more mysterious and vague. I suspect we will get too much info on the force in the next couple of films (but that's a discussion for another place and time). That is where we part company. I like most people here am a big big fan of the whole trilogy. GL didn't do much wrong! It's good to see a little debate every now and then though!!!

Fair play to yer!

 

I dearly love the original 1977 movie. A. Foster's novelization of Star Wars, though somewhat flawed, adds many valuable insights to the movie.

Second, Foster's novel "Splinter of the Mind's Eye", though it shares several of the weaknesses of ESB (such as using the Force in a telekinetic manner) and adds its own weaknesses (such as the absurd lightsabre duel between Vader and Leia), captures better than any sequel (book or movie) some of the enchantment of the original.

Third, ESB is very good in large parts of the movie. The spaceship chase through the asteroids is my favorite spaceship scene of all. The battle on Hoth is very praiseworthy. Vader's overall portrayal (not including the Emperor scene and much of the lightsabre duel) is better even than in the original movie. ESB, however, remains largely spoiled for me by its failings.

Last, in the beginning of ROTJ it is shown how beautiful a figure Leia can be. I wish in the original movie that she had worn a more sensual costume and had loose, flowing hair. In fact, in the old 1977 campaign posters Leia is shown in a revealing costume. I wish the movie had followed suit.

 

My criticism of the sequels to Star Wars can indeed seem scathing. My overall attitude, though, is one of sadness. The 1977 Star Wars is pure magic, and I am pained to see its sequels not treated with the care they deserve. It seems that with each new sequel, ever more of the primordial magic is contradicted both in its spirit and in its very letter.

 

Thank you for your considered reply to my post. I am always glad to hear from another person who also likes the original movie best.

The problem with the sequels is not that they attempt to flesh out the Force, but that they do so in a way that destroys the magic and is untrue to the original. Telekinesis? That belongs in comic books. Jumps and backflips in lightsabre duels? Comic books again. Compare this with the poise and grace of Obi-Wan Kenobi in his duel with Vader. (On this please see "Lightsabres--fighting techniques" on B Squared's STAR WARS Stuff [www.synicon.com.au/sw/index].) Worst of all are the TPM's Midi-Chlorians. This is not a fleshing out of the Force, but rather a rationalization (and hence destruction) of its mystery.

ESB does indeed bring complexity to the story, but it does so by introducing elements alien to the Star Wars mythos. One of the most enchanting scenes in Star Wars is Ben's telling Luke of his father, galactic history, and the Force. This powerful scene started to be rewritten by ESB ("No, I am your father."), went further in ROTJ (Leia the twin sister), and is going off the edge of the cliff in TMP (Midi-Chlorians). Again, instead of developing what is in the original, the sequels contradict and cheapen it. All the rationalizations of this (such as Kenobi telling Luke in ROTJ about "points of view") only make it worse. In short, there are many ways to develop the original and give complexity to the sequels without rewriting and betraying an almost perfectly written story.

 

Thank you for letting me know that you largely share my views. It is encouraging to know of people who see and appreciate the same magic that I do.

I am sorry if my criticisms of Yoda seem blasphemous. I try not to offend when I criticize. Yoda, however, is an element of ESB that dilutes the magic of Star Wars. Ben's last words to Luke (both on the Death Star and after Luke destroyed the Death Star) were, "The Force will be with you...always." In well-thought-out
sequels Luke would have grown in the Force not by being taught by Yoda or by talking to Kenobi's ghost; rather, through introspection and meditation he would have gradually grown ever more attuned to the Force.

Also, consider that introducing Yoda was like letting a malevolent jinni out of a bottle. The Expanded Universe is chock full of lost Jedi popping up. This, of course, contradicts Kenobi's words that "the Jedi are all but extinct." The best and most natural meaning of those words is that Kenobi was the last of the Jedi. By introducing Yoda an unpleasant can of worms was opened.

 

Hey! What about my reply?

 

I am sorry. I did not mean to ignore your post. I am glad that the original movie is your favorite, too.

I share your suspicions about the next two movies. I will be very surprised if they do not treat the Force with even more incompetence than do the previous sequels. Each one is worse than the one before.

Obviously, I have to disagree when you say that GL didn't do much wrong. I wish he never allowed the EU (with the exception of "Splinter of the Mind's Eye", if that counts as EU); I wish he never made TPM and ROTJ; I wish he did not do the Special Editions (though cleaning up the original films was a good idea); and I wish ESB was fundamentally different.

 

"Last, in the beginning of ROTJ it is shown how beautiful a figure Leia can be. I wish in the original movie that she had worn a more sensual costume and had loose, flowing hair. In fact, in the old 1977 campaign posters Leia is shown in a revealing costume. I wish the movie had followed suit."

You and me both, pal.

 

You wish the sequals hadn't been made?

 

If you thought the sequels were bad, worse even than the knowledge that on all those sequel-wrecked childhood nights, your parents were doing the tube-steak boogie in their bed, then I won't tell you the most heinous thing of all: Binary, I AM YOUR FATHER! Oops.

 

Dolphin, for the most part I do indeed wish that the sequels had not been made. TPM and ROTJ are like spoofs of the original Star Wars. I am ambivalent about ESB. It is very good in parts, but as soon as I start to enjoy it its bad parts come on screen and make me wince. Regarding the books, only "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" retains any of the original's magic. I heartily wish that George Lucas had never started the nightmare known as the Expanded Universe when he let Timothy Zahn publish "Heir to the Empire."

 

Why watch RotJ and TPM then?
In the time that you spent waiting and watching them you could have written your own story. When it did good people like you could say you wrote your story wrong. ESB, RotJ, and TPM are the true continuations of SW. You just happen to not like them and are perfectly allowed to feel that way.
I can honestly say you are the ONLY person I've EVER ran into that ONLY likes SW (I call it SW because calling it ANH automatically connects it with it's sequels which you hate) and despises the other ones. Are you wrong? Well, no. It just seems off-kiltered to me.
Strong word of advice, don't go see Ep II. It'll save you two hours, 7 bucks, and more disappointment. The SW we saw in RotJ is the one George is sticking with apparently.
On another note, I did find your veiws fascinating.

 

Madam_Maul, thank you for taking the time to consider my views even though you do not agree with them. I, too, find views contrary to my own to often be fascinating in their own right.

Also, thank you very much for not referring to Star Wars as "A New Hope." I cordially hate that title. To me Star Wars will always be "Star Wars."

Please note that while I do indeed despise TPM and ROTJ, I do not truly despise ESB. Rather, I am ambivalent about it. ESB is a curious mixture of very good parts and very bad parts.

The reason that I have viewed ROTJ and TPM many times and intend to view Episodes II and III many times is to give the movies a fair shake. I do not think that one or even two viewings is enough to see what is really going on in these movies. While, alas, the sequels generally get worse for me with repeated viewings, I suppose hope springs eternal.

I must disagree when you say that ESB, ROTJ, and TPM are the true continuations of SW. While they may indeed be the "official" continuations, they do not breath the wonder and magic of the original (though ESB has its moments). To me a "true" sequel would follow the facts and the feeling of the original.

Last, I would love to write sequels that are true to the original Star Wars movie. My writing skills, though, are lackluster at best. I know that anything I wrote would at least not contradict the original's storyline and spirit, but it would otherwise probably not be very well written.

 

Binary-Sunset has an opinion of the SW movies that is very rare. Personally, I couldn't disagree with him more.

 

I respect your well thought out opinions on the star wars universe even though I don't agree with all of them.

I'm passionate in my own way about Star Wars. I try to be open minded therefore I also enjoy reading various opinions and generally don't get too upset with critical posts.

I do agree wholeheartedly with your opinion regarding TPM and how the force was transformed to the M word, well enough said about that.

 

Binary. Thankyou for the reply

Exactly what parts of ESB don't you like. I know your feelings on how the force is dealt with. But I'm interested in actual scenes that you dislike.

 

I'm not an avid fan of the EU. I've only read the original Thrawn Trilogy. But what intrigues me is your veiws of the 'others' is how most people see the EU.
Your thoughts on the 'others' have given me a glimpse of what an EU lover must feel like when an EU hater bashes the books (I'm not saying you're bashing however).
I think more EU haters should read your posts and be genuinely upset by them so they will let EU lovers be knowing that they might take offense to the bashing.
For this insight, I applaud you.
Althou I, personally, couldn't disagree with you more. I'm fairly curious as to how you would have continued the story. Would you mind posting a synopsis? (you can make as many sequels as you please as your world does not include the 'others').

 

Ok, so why are you HERE! You are not a FAN! If you can't appreciate it all, you can't appreciate one... it's like "I like crisco and eggs in my cookies, but no flour" it doen't work! (plus, those cookies would be NASTY!)

I know that some people don't like certain sections of Star Wars, but GL had this all planned out, so saying things like "deciding to make Vader Luke's dad.." you are wrong, this was planned all along...

I guess some CERTAIN people who I won't mention just can't appreciate SW!

I know you can have your own opinions but really... well, neway about TPM, the force is more used because there are THOUSANDS of Jedi back then... it's planned.... It's not easy to create a phenomenon, so don't go bashing those who do.....

_solojones