The fourth installment of the 2004 Jedi Draft!!!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Darth-Horax, Jul 8, 2004.

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  1. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    Holy crap and a half! Teams....this one is close!
  2. Corran-Horn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2004
    star 4
    Well, this has certainly been an interesting Drafts. The changes gave the Draft a new feel, but I still don't know if I like it as much as the traditional Draft style. Who knows, maybe we'll see some more changes in the future. More Jedi? More GMs? Time will tell. Hey, maybe i'll even return to the GM spot.

    As for the break after this Draft is over, i'm all for it. The Drafts have gone pretty much one after another after another after another. Giving everyone a little break, like a week or so, to calm down, couldn't do any harm. Meh, it's up to the Mods.

    As for the Final match coming down to team-battles, it really is a toss-up. You can make strong arguments for both sides. I'm not going to say which one I think'll win and why though because, frankly, I'm lazy :p

    ~Corran
  3. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Oh, which way to vote, which way to vote.
  4. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    Wow One last judgement to decide all the marbles, and there are two very close teams. So Lets look at the players:


    Mace Windu, Plo Koon, Depa Billaba, Agen Kolar, Bultar Swan, Voolvif Monn

    vs.

    Yoda, Ki-Adi Mundi, Lord Hoth, Arca Jeth, Cay Qel-Droma, Tott Donetta

    Now lets look at the importantgiables when it comes to being a team:

    1.Cohesion
    I feel as far as cohesion goes my team is far more cohesive then Second Best's. I have two sets of Master/Padawans w/ Yoda & Ki-Adi, who later served together; I also have Acra who was the master to both Cay and Tott. Plus none of my Jedi, ever tried to kill another member of thier team.

    2. Force Strength
    Out of the three storngest Jedi in the force in this battle I have two of them in Yoda and Acra. I mean Yoda has more power than anyone on his team, no one, not even Mace is anywhere near the level of Yoda. Plus I have Battle Meditation will work on Swan, and Monn and Depa and Kolar. Tott is also strong in the force do not forget that Tott was one the Jedi to help create the Wall of Light which trapped Exar Kun; plus he created a force shield to protect his clan from a massive heat storm.

    3. Battle Skill
    I know Second Best's claim to fame is that he has vapaad. However first off vapaad mastered Depa, Depa did not master vappad. And you could try to refute this claim by saying Mace claimed that his former padawan mastered it. However, I would like to point out a quote from Master Yoda, which was aimed right at Mace: too sure of themselves, they are. Even the older, more experienced ones. I feel that Yoda is trying to tell Mace, get your head out of you know where.
    As far as my team and battling go I have Yoda, who gives a pure attack through the force. Not only do I have the #1 Jedi of PT era, I also the #3 Jedi, when it comes to fighting and power in the force in Ki-Adi. If you doubt his ability, he managed to stave off GG, the Jedi Killer, and ensure several other Jedi survived. If you still want to refute Ki-Adi's skil, then go talk to GL. Add to that Hoth's experience in fighting in the middle of a Saber -to-Saber comabat. Now throw in Acra's skill w/ a blade, and remember he was the one who taught Ulic, amoung others how to fight w/ a saber. I just have a team that can fight.

    Ghost Recon Force has the cohesion, the strength in the force, and the saber skill to win this battle.
  5. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    Mace Windu, Plo Koon, Depa Billaba, Agen Kolar, Bultar Swan, Voolvif Monn

    vs.

    Yoda, Ki-Adi Mundi, Lord Hoth, Arca Jeth, Cay Qel-Droma, Tott Donetta



    Ahhh, the way any great game should end...going down to the wire!


    Anyway you slice it these teams are both well formed, well thought out, and pretty damn cohesive...

    I think we found our best two teams in the finals here... On the one hand, SB's team is cohesive all around, everyone is from the same era so they should at least know each other and maybe fighting techniques...Ghost's team has a great Yoda/Ki-adi pairing, then Hoth who is a little out of place, but the back 3 of Ghost's team certainly makes up for it as two of them were apprentices of the other...good draft execution to both of you, so with cohesion so closely contended we'll have to go to other areas to give an early edge to one of the other....

    Force Strength: Yoda gives Ghost's team a pretty big lift in this department, but its not overwhelming since Mace is no slouch and the rest of the players are comprable at least....So small force advantage to Ghost's team....

    Saber Skill: Again, this area is pretty close just as the last but if it were to swing a way it would be to SB's team... I actually give Mace an advantage over Yoda in this area, I'm not saying Yoda is better overall, he isnt but using a blade I feel Mace is a little more talented when it comes to fighting...I mean he enjoys it, Yoda does not...Also, I think Mace could outlast Yoda if you will...Mace is a fighting machine and has the endurance to last a long while...Yoda while not struggling imo against Dooku's Force Lightning, certainly appeared worn out after fighting him with the blade and I consider AOTC to be Yoda's prime for fighting anyways

    The rest of the players seem to go back and forth, but remain close, no big obvious advantages for either...Mundi is a little better than Koon, Depa could squeak by Hoth...I'd say the last 3 of each team are even closer than the top three when looked at individually...But I'd give a small advantage in this department to SB's team

    Cohesion has already been discussed and is pretty much negated by the other team...

    There is one thing I havent discussed however...Battle Meditation

    With two teams that are just so damn close in everything this could and will be the straw to break the camel's back....Arca Jeth's mastery over BM is enough to demoralize SB's warriors who have never experienced it in their lives, and it's enough for me to give the win to the Ghost Recon Force


    Winner: Ghost Recon Force

  6. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    Oh, which way to vote, which way to vote.

    Easy there commish, simply vote for
    Ghost Recon Force, you can even copy and paste my last post to save time
  7. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    Actually Ghost, if you watch the movie and think about it....Yoda's comment was probably pointed towards Obi-Wan....

    Obi Wan was the last person to speak before Yoda said it and Kenobi just got done saying how brash and arrogant Anakin is...Mace hadnt said a word in the conversation yet....Mace and Yoda are equals on the Council, one may correct the other, but they're not going to treat each other like inferiors, while Obi-Wan is certainly a subordinate of Mace and Yoda
  8. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    I only said that b/c it seems that Yoda was staring right at Mace when he said it, like he meant about the Jedi in praticular, and Mace in praticular. As if Obi would think Yoda meant many rank and file, while Mace had the proverbial target on his chest.
    Also later on when Obi report that Sifo-Dyas ordered the clones, it appears that Yoda once again gives Mace the stare of death.

    I could just be over analyzing. We'll just have to wait to May '05
  9. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    Obi-Wam seems far more sure of himself in AOTC than he should be...Mace can back it up, Kenobi cannot at that point in time

    A lot could be said about the whole report from Obi-Wan while mace and yoda listen....both Jedi seem very sure that it was a surprise....but sit and wait, and we'll find out
  10. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    Cay and Tott are slouches. Period. The fact that Tott "helped make a wall of light" just goes to show that it took a half dozen or so punks teaming on one guy with all their Force might can beat someone good. That is not a test of skill, that's a test of 'yet another guy to add to the mix'. Swan at least is a duelist, Monn a defense specialist, and Kolar just plain rules. Period. SB's backfield gives him the win here, as Battle Meditation doesn't work as well on other Force users. And since the top 3 isn't that wide, I'd say SB takes it narrowly just because of Cay 'the black sheep' Qel-Droma and Tott 'hey I got seven friends to help me!' Donetta.
  11. SecondBest Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2003
    star 6
    That vote alone kind of ruined my day. It's nothing against WINDU, but I just came back from an amusement park, having the time of my life, and I come home to see a vote against me. It's nobody's fault, I'm not saying anyone shouldn't vote against me, but that kind of set me back. I'm one vote away from losing, and I'm too tired to argue right now. I just wish I came home to a happier note. Oh well.
  12. NiktosRule Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2001
    star 4
    I agree with Suzuki on Cay and Tott. I think SecondBest should take this. Also I think Koon is the much better warrior then Mundi. We haven't seen how good a fighter he is while Koon has a reputation for being one of the fiercest Jedi in the order. Mundi does not have that reputation. I also think Depa would have little trouble against Hoth.

    Also about Vaapaad I think it is BS to say that Depa didn't master it despite Mace saying so. Mace may be overconfident but I highly doubt he would be wrong about this. He created and I'm sure he would know when someone mastered it. Vaapaad has absolutely nothing to do with Depa's turn. That was all about the Jungle of Haruun Kal. It nearly turned Mace to the darkside as well. Vaapaad had nothing to do with it. I suggest reading the book again if you think otherwise.
  13. bburditt Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2004
    star 5
    Janson, can you please vote. I'm really not in the mood or in the right mind-set to think this week.

    I'd prefer to only vote if I have to.
  14. Qui-Gon-Jinn2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2002
    star 4
    Wow! What a great way to end this draft. Such a close fight also. I'll throw in an opinion, hopefully nobody will mind.

    If I were still a judge, this is what I would type...

    Mace Windu, Plo Koon, Depa Billaba, Agen Kolar, Bultar Swan, Voolvif Monn

    vs.

    Yoda, Ki-Adi Mundi, Lord Hoth, Arca Jeth, Cay Qel-Droma, Tott Donetta



    Verdict: This is almost as close a fight as you could imagine between 2 teams stacked to the hills in more ways than one. I think the best way is to give something of a systamatic breakdown.

    In the most important category to me, which is pure fighting skill I think these teams are almost as equal as equal can be. Yoda is clearly better than Mace, but that difference is made up by Koon/Mundi, because Koon is slightly better than Mundi in eyes. Down the board it is fairly equal as well, Hoth is a match for Depa, due to his massive experience, but Depa is a Vaapaad master, which gives her a puncher's chance at most fights, and certainly this one. In the backfield the trend continues, although I do think that Dude has the better saber wielders while Ghost has a slight edge in force power, so I would give Dude a slight edge in the backfield, but not by much.

    Overall they just seem very equal to me.



    Cohesion: I put cohesion slightly ahead of expierence on my chart of importance , and things are somewhat equal here, with a couple of things to note.

    Both teams have 2 m/a combos, with Ghost having Jeth/droma/tott and Yoda/Mundi and Dude having Koon/Swan and Mace/Depa. Both of the "stars" have there best pupil at there hand, so that cancel each other out. While Koon/Swan is stronger than either person Jeth could use, the added plus of having 2 of his apprentices evens things out a bit.

    The other important thing to note is that while the m/a combos are equal, Dude has much better cohesion 1-6 than Ghost, seeing as how they have all fought together (but not side by side as it were), while Ghost has mix match of eras. Seeing as how as I see the m/a combos as being equal, this gives Dude a small edge in cohesion.


    Battle expierence: This is where things start to diverge a little bit. Yoda was said to have spent 700 years in the field before training students. I doubt there is a great deal that would confuse him in this fightt. Mace has as much exp as a PT Jedi could have, but his expierence is simply dwarfed by Yoda. Both teams have capable right hand men, Koon has exp in the Hyperspace and Clone Wars (earning legendary status in my eyes for his heroics in the Hyp-Wars), while Mundi has Clone Wars and most likely fought in the Hyp-Wars as well, given his age. In comics, nearly everytime I see Koon or Mundi, the other one is there. So they have comparable exp.

    However, past that, Dude takes a hit in this area. While Depa/Monn/Swan, like Mace have as much skill as a PT jedi can, they is simply outmatched by Jeth/Hoth big time, and are at least equal to Droma/Tott. Also worth noting, Ghost has much better exp than Dude, as many of his people have fought in similar battles to this format in the Sith Wars etc...

    Overall Ghost has a good solid edge here.


    Force power: This is becoming less of a factor to me, as I dont think it is easily transferable to these fights. Still, it is always a nice thing to have. I think Yoda/Mundi has a slight edge over Mace/Koon. I would also give a small edge to Ghost here because of Hoth's power, which i think eclipses Depa's slightly, and Jeth's, which i think eclipses Kolar's slightly. I think the back 2 are fairly equal, with Monn's special abilities of defense canceling out Droma's natural power.

    Overall, although I think it is largely a non-factor, I think Ghost has a moderate edge here, although i think the effect it would have on the fight is almost zero.

    Intangibles: Honestly, when i was a judge this is what made or broke many a fight. Here it is largely the same. Both teams have solid leadership and strong 2nd men. A interesting difference in this fight to me is that further down the line Dude has (to me) peo
  15. Qui-Gon-Jinn2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2002
    star 4
    Ahh crap, it looks like I parroted a whole bunch of what Windu said ( i didnt read it before hand). Oh well, there is still some original stuff in there. *shrugs*
  16. Qui-Gon-Jinn2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2002
    star 4
    Well, I just play Devil's advocate for a bit

    Also I think Koon is the much better warrior then Mundi. We haven't seen how good a fighter he is while Koon has a reputation for being one of the fiercest Jedi in the order. Mundi does not have that reputation

    Much better? I honestly think you are underestimating Ki. Nearly every fight Koon has been in, Ki has been in as well. As far as reputation, Ki is said to be the 3rd strongest jedi in the order now, and he was handpicked by Yoda to be his apprentice. I've never seen anything that would lead me to say either is "much better" than the other. I honestly think these 2 are as equal as it gets.

    Let me put it like this, if my life were on the line on this ^^ fight, I would be very nervous no matter who I picked.

    I also think Depa would have little trouble against Hoth.

    I echo the same sentiment as above. Yeah, Vaapaad is the best form, but like (I think it was Corran) said, the Jedi makes the fight, not the form makes the fight. Hoth has growen up and old specializing in these types of fights. I think saying Depa would have little trouble is way off, as people with expierence are very hard to beat. That is true with most walks of life. Like in the NBA, the old Utah Jazz never beat themselves because they had 2 very expierence players at the helm. Obviously if the gap betwen the 2 parties is HUGE than this isnt true, but that certainly isnt the case here.
    Mainly i think you are off in your language, as i think anyone who could beat anyone "with little trouble" would win 8 or 9 fights out of 10. I just cant see that happening.


    Out of the three storngest Jedi in the force in this battle I have two of them in Yoda and Acra.

    Koon is at the very least equal to Arca in the force. Battle Meditation is not the only part of the force. Yoda (in the old comics) held Koon up as the model jedi, because he was strong, wise, and humble (much like Yoda I think) His exploits in battle have boardered on legendary

    Plus I have Battle Meditation will work on Swan, and Monn and Depa and Kolar.

    Pure conjecture. I agree, but there is a lot of gray area in there

    EDIT: Going off now, just some things that i thought were debateable. peace
  17. NiktosRule Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2001
    star 4
    Qui-Gon-Jinn2, you proved my point with Koon. You said his exploits in battle are legendary. As that ever been said of Mundi? No.
  18. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    Mundi was said to be the third RANKED Jedi, not the third most powerful. And just what the hell are you saying, with this Force power isn't transferable to these fights crap? Are you clinically insane? You want evidence that Force power is a HUGE factor, in fact, usually more important than blatant saber skill?


    Darth Vader.

    Darth ******* Vader.

    How the hell else is he supposed to fight in that suit? He uses the Force to enhance his attributes(speed, power, agility) so that he can duel. You may be more skilled than someone, but if they acan make themselves stronger, faster, more resiliant, predict your moves earlier with heightened Force awareness, zap you, plus have no morals whatsoever and be quite able fling you around the room with a thought no matter what kind of attempt you make to block this in the Force....

    You're gonna lose.

    Force power and saber prowess are the two most important things in duels. Do not even tell me that Force power is not transferable. It's ridiculous.

    Strilo edit: Swearing is not allowed, even if a few letters are starred out.
  19. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    Thanks Qui-Gon-Jinn2, I think we should make you a judge
  20. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    I think Ki-Adi Mundi, as stated by GL, is the third best Jedi of the Prequel Trilogy Order, Koon is probably number four...


    Mundi's exploits are legendary, in my eyes at least. Only a handful of Jedi ever could have gone up against Grievous like that...Thats the stuff legends are made out of my friends
  21. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    Some Force power is not transferable in a duel...I doubt Vader could easily choke someone he was fighting, and Sadow's may not transfer as well as he'd like it to...

    But then again of course Force strength is important or else Sora Bulq would tear Vader apart
  22. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    That's completely wrong.

    Some Force skills are not transferable to a duel. Force power is definetely transferable, and there is NO exception to that.
  23. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    Force skills are the ability to use Force strength in combat.... Without using the skill, it's kinda hard to utilize the strength
  24. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    ...Vader is so incredibly powerful in the Force that he should be able to easily kill most jedi on the board without raising a sabre....but he can't or at least he doesnt
  25. Suzuki_Akira Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2003
    star 7
    Enhance attributes is used by any freaking Force user, especially Vader. It makes them move faster than usual, swing harder, and Vader does use it. It is the main duelist Force skill and it is why stronger Force users beat more skilled swordsman.
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