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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

The Fracturing of the Lit. Forum: Opinions on New Changes

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Lord Bane, Feb 24, 2002.

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  1. jedimasterED

    jedimasterED Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 1999
    I vote for keeping things just as they are. While not perfect, the Literature Forum is perhaps the last bastion for all-inclusive Star Wars discussion. If a topic has or, more importantly, may have an impact on the realm of SW literature, it is open for discussion here. I like that.
     
  2. boushh2187

    boushh2187 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 1999
    I'm a bit undecided on this issue. I like the look and idea of the new Author, Books etc. sections, but I also am a bit afraid that people might not have the time to visit all these separate places.

    I know I stopped visiting the Lit. forum on a regular basis after the EU Community split. I'm getting back into it now, but it took quite a while.

    I do like how there are "official" book and author threads, but are they going to get the attention that the Lit. forum gets? And how about spoilers? If an official topic is begun for say, "Rebel Dream", do we post with spoiler spaces even though people will still be visiting the thread months and months later when spoiler spaces are no longer considered necessary? Maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself though...

    Anyway, I like the idea of the forum split, but I'm still not completely sold.
     
  3. The Gatherer

    The Gatherer Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 1999
    If the books and comics forum went ahead, spoilers would be allowed.
     
  4. Bria

    Bria Manager Emeritus, -MNFF Council star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 15, 1999
    I personally like things just the way they are. :) Going through three different boards on basically the same subject (EU lit) seems unneccessary to me. And as Dev said, confusing.

    ~*~Bria
     
  5. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    I would prefer no changes. It's hard enough to find time to check one community board and then skim through the Lit board titles. It's too time-consuming to check through yet another or multiple new boards. I can see redundant posts and posters confused about the best place to post a message. I guess I really didn't see a problem with the way things were. 'If something's not broken, don't fix it' makes a lot of sense to me.
     
  6. wampa

    wampa Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    On one hand, I feel the Author forum is good for discussing non-SW lit. On the other, I don't know if the amount of discussion warrant it's own forum.

    And if the book forum's only potential is a group of polls, then I can't see that it has much future.

    Dev made a great remark:
    Navigation may be a problem, but it's one with a much easier solution: we need only have an up-to-date, easy-to-find literature index. This would require some effort on the part of the moderators, but it can't be any harder than maintaining and creating threads for an extra three forums.

    This is exactly what I have always seen as the problem. I have taken it upon myself to create a new literature index, but I won't officially announce the URL until I feel comfortable that it is satisfactorily complete.

    Here's my plan for a new literature index:

    1. Official threads will still be needed. Plus the index will keep them organized better.

    2. The current index has many bad links and many important topics are not on it.

    3. My index would be discussed in a thread that would be minimally brought up each month to evaluate the index's contents.

    4. The index could supply EU FAQs/Redundant threads to newbies to lessen clutter. (I definitely suggest that a new thread be created to explain all the acronyms because the one on the current index has a bad link).

    Qualifications: I've been posting here for years and I feel obligated to give something back. I also have webpage design experience and update my fansite regularly.

    In summation, I really want a chance to improve the literature forum. Please post comments and suggestions on your ideal literature index. Thank you.
     
  7. The Gatherer

    The Gatherer Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 1999
    Wampa,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to create another index. Can you please PM me the URL so I can take a look? If I like what I see, and I am sure I will, we could replace the index that Kadue created. No disrespect to Kadue, but he hasn't been seen around here for a long time, and it is not being updated.
     
  8. Yanksfan

    Yanksfan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2000
    Stupid idea. Why water these forums down even further? It just means there are going to be that many more discussions that will be completely missed by the average user. And then there will be that many more annoying post like: "Hey, nice topic, but wrong forum." *Lock*.

    Screw that, why split everyone up even more?
     
  9. wampa

    wampa Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    Gatherer,
    I didn't mean any disrespect to Kadue either. Without, Kadue, this task would be impossible. I sent you a PM earlier with the URL. Tonight I almost finished going through the old index for faulty links. Hopefully I can put my info on the web in the coming days. Thanks for the support.
     
  10. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    I still don't think that kind of a split is a good idea. As I said in the other thread, it actually breaks up the various kinds of literature and could lead to fewer folks actually not becomeing intrested in one literature forum. While far more people will easily become intrested in reading the novels, what about those who could become intrested in reading the comics based on what they hear in this fourm? Society has it ingrained into us from an early age that they are not literature. Yet this just isn't the case. True, they are not the same type of literature as a book. But they still tell a story. And some do more than tell a story, they actually offer a means of learning. By seperating the two, we are once more saying that comics are not important, that their only something to read when you're a young kid, but you should give up on em as you get older because they won't help you in any way. They may not help in the same way as books do, but they do help.

    Also, what happens when a thread starts out where it appears to belong, but quickly changes until it belongs in a different forum? We could start out discussing a certain book and bring in a comic that supports a certain opinion, and then the thread change into more of a comic disscussion. If we have a lit forum as we currently do, there is no difference about the change. But if we have a split forum, things would end up with someone saying "This thread no longer belongs in this forum." Or we could have something more akin to the "war" going on between the lit forum and the movie forums. Someone doesn't like the comics and doesn't think they are literature or SW in general and starts flaming someone who dares to mention them.

    As I said before, a split I would find more acceptable than the one proposed would be keeping the regular lit forum, but adding a forum for lit spoilers. This way, folks who want to steer clear of any spoilers would be able to feel safer about visiting the lit forum. It would also allow folks who don't stop to think before posting a spoiler thread title to keep from having folks jump down their throats. We have all discussed how important it is to keep the spoiler out of the title. It is totally irresposible of someone to post a thread titled something like "Chebacca dies when a moon destroys the planet he's on" when the book is still fairly fresh. A seperate spoiler thread would allow for spoilers of the latest books or comics to be discussed during the two month spoiler period without having to worry about repercussions or upsetting folks who don't want to be spoiled.
     
  11. Knight1192

    Knight1192 Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    These changes are going to be made whether we want them or not, appaerantly. We had a poll about whether or not the changes should be made, and so far the results are 61% against the idea. And yet the authors change was implemented. And now the books change. Do we really have a say in this as was said at the onset of this thread? This is starting to sound like city hall vs. the city treasury department of the city nearest me. A proposal as to how to use land downtown was brought up and in meetings in December was shot down by claims of too expensize. So it was changed, downsized just a bit, and made cheaper. But the head of the treasurey department told the paper they never had any intention of letting the plan go through anyways. That sounds like what's happening here. Ask us for our opinion, but go ahead and make the changes anyways, despite what popular opinion may be. So my question is, why bothering saying our opinion is important if it's not going to have an outcome on the final results? I'm not pushing for my suggestion here, but I am wondering, after seeing the book split has been done already.
     
  12. Darth_Kevin

    Darth_Kevin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Gather,

    You already had a poll where you made your original proposal. Now that you've had a lot more feedback and experimented with the new forums, I think we of the Lit. Forum are ready for another vote. A lot more people have had time to think about the issues and see the new authors forum.

    You should create a new poll and see what the Lit. Forum decides. Let the vote go for a week or two to get a large turnout. "Advertise" the vote to all the EU forums so there is a great deal of exposure to it. Let the members decide and the majority rule.

    BALLOT:

    1) Split the Lit. Forum [into Authors & Artists, Books (& Comics), Miscellaneous (Literature), etc.]

    2) No split & remove the EU Authors & Artists and EU Books Forums
     
  13. The Gatherer

    The Gatherer Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 1999
    We as a moderating team are discussing the options.

    So far the authors forum seems like it has support, while the books and comics does not - which is my gut feel.

    As I said, I will discuss further with my fellow mods, and we will make an announcement shortly.
     
  14. jastermereel

    jastermereel Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 1998
    you're going to discuss it with your fellow mods?...when do we, outside of the ruling class, get input here?...that poll of yours was a sham, as your proposal was voted down and still went through regardless of what we though......and now here we are having to fight to get the boards back as they were and you just say that you'll "discuss further with my fellow mods" and then you are going to give us your discision?...BAH!...what happened to this place...when did it all turn to (i may not like it here now, but i don't want to get censored and banned just yet...)
     
  15. JediStryker

    JediStryker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2000
    C'mon, in the first poll most agreed to give it a test run...that's what we're doing now, right? It's better than just disregarding it off-hand and wondering about it later. This way we know it won't work, and the question (hopefully) won't come up again.

    And I don't honestly think that this will go through if the majority of us don't want it to. Gatherer likes his idea; he should, it's his idea. But if he's been anything else, he has always been fair, IMO, and if we don't want it, I'm sure he'll dump it.

    (I could make a good dilomat. ;))
     
  16. Jades Fire

    Jades Fire Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 1998
    This is rich, really it is.

    Last week, The Gatherer started a poll to see if people wanted to see a change. Last time I looked two-thirds voted against the change.

    But it seemed like The Gatherer didn't care what the people said and in true "I-don't-care-what-everyone-wants-fashion" he created the new forums anyway.

    What is the point of calling for a vote on a change if the change is going to be implemented anyway?

    Perhaps if some of the admins spent more time moderating the discussions and less time indulging in pet projects the Lit forum could be improved.


    PS: I voted against the change before. I vote against the change now. Don't split the forums anymore.
     
  17. Lord Bane

    Lord Bane Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 26, 1999
    The forums were to convice us mods, who were (and some still are) very skeptical this could ever work. He made them public so you all could join in the experiment. Nothing is set and permanent yet. It could all be deleted tonight if there was enough antipathy shown towards it.
     
  18. JediStryker

    JediStryker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2000
    He created them as a trial run. Like I said, I was fairly certain that most had agreed that it would be fair to try it for a few days before we scrapped it.

     
  19. Jades Fire

    Jades Fire Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 1998
    Right. :rolleyes:

    Remind me of this in a couple of years when there's another vote to split the "Books and Comics" forum into "Prequel Books and Comics" and "Original Trilogy Books and Comics" to make thing easier for newbies to navigate.

    New forums won't make things easier for newbies to navigate. They'll see OFFICIAL threads with 5 billion posts in them, and will say to themselves "I'm not reading all those posts" and 1) won't bother to post at all, or 2) will post their questions anyway. And old-timers will roll their eyes at the newbies who post questions that were already answered earlier in the thread, asking why they didn't bother to read the earlier messages.

    Of all the topic-specific forums, Literature is the most newbie friendly because we don't mind a bit of redundancy. Or maybe that's the problem with Lit, it is too newbie friendly and the old-timers resent it.
     
  20. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    I don't agree with any resentment around here at all, JF.

    You'll generally find that a number of oldbies respond and are happy to respond to repeated questions ad nauseum, regardless of how many times different newbies may ask it.

    I think it's definitely a strength of this forum which can't be matched by any of the others - the willingness of so many people to help newbies.

    I never understood posting a negative newbie-smacking, redundancy-rant, when answering the original question in a positive, helpful manner would take up less space. ?[face_plain] But, nonsense like that seems to be confined to the movie forums, for the most part.

    I've gotten it in the Senate and JCC as well, but not as much as movies, and certainly not as much as here.

    We're very tolerable here, IMO.
     
  21. ReaperFett

    ReaperFett Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    Or maybe that's the problem with Lit, it is too newbie friendly and the old-timers resent it.

    Stop being so elitist. I'm would guess that I am an "oldie", and I don't resent it. Oh wait, are you talking about the same "oldies" who don't come here because they dont like the NJO?
     
  22. Jades Fire

    Jades Fire Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 1998
    Boys, boys, you entirely missed the point of my last sentence. It contradicts the entire tone of the post, which was my opinion of the Lit forum, ie, that we are very tolerant of newbies. The second sentence, admittedly, needs a rolleyes icon. I'd like to know where "the problem" with the Literature forum is coming from that we suddenly need to split it up. Again. No elitism here Reaper. Stop reading what you think I'm saying rather than what I said. K?
     
  23. ReaperFett

    ReaperFett Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    I understood the last split(at least now, cant remember what my views then were), because there were a lot of fan clubs cluttering. But that did unclutter the place nicely. Why seperate more?


    Stop reading what you think I'm saying rather than what I said. K?

    Hey, you're the one that said "The second, admittedly, needs a rolleyes icon", which indicates more that I am reading what youre saying, you just didnt write what you thought :)
     
  24. JediStryker

    JediStryker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2000
    Geez, all as cranky as a bunch of oldbies, that's for sure.
     
  25. Fluke_Groundwalker

    Fluke_Groundwalker Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2001
    I say we should keep the Authors Forum, but nix the Books Forum.
     
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