Senate The Future of the Republican Party

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Jabbadabbado, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    I look at Akin and Murdoucks comments are those spoken by clueless individuals who don't deserve to be elected. They doomed their own campaigns by suffering from diarrhea of the mouth.
    Juliet316 likes this.
  2. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    And it wasn't even close in Missouri... McCaskill won by 16% points. Wasn't too close in Indiana either.
    Jedi Merkurian and Juliet316 like this.
  3. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    But my point is they dont have to fall to the dems for the dems to keep winning the presidency. All the dems have to do is lock in Cali(which the GOP has abandoned), the west coast, the north east, and then go after the latino vote in a few select western states(NV, NM)
    The GOP has really screwed themselves into a corner with their immigration and social issue stances.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Nov 7, 2012
  4. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    It's still early (in regards to the aftermath of the election), but there's still real talk in Republican circles on all levels about how if only Benghazi had been discussed more, or if Sandy hadn't come along, or this or that nonsense, then Romney would have won. There's a massive amount of focus on things that have nothing to do with the fundamentals of the problems facing the Republican Party and almost no discussion about things that must change (immigration is obvious, but it goes well beyond that).
  5. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    There was one big issue in this election, and that was the economy. If Obama barely squeaked by in the popular vote, then that's mostly likely because of the economy. It doesn't necessarily mean an endorsement of the Republicans' policy preferences by large segments of the population.

    Kucinich gets ignored because his views are just plain silly, and he more or less stands alone in voicing them. Akin's views however are backed up at least to some degree by the hardline anti-abortion camp. One of these stands some chance of becoming reality, while the other does not...therefore it makes sense to treat one seriously and not the other.
    Last edited by Alpha-Red, Nov 7, 2012
  6. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I don't think the situation will change as long as GOP-controlled states can cobble together districts that win congressional elections. A GOP-controlled House is good enough to fulfill the ultimate GOP agenda of downsized government. They can allow the country to fall over the fiscal cliff in the ultimate starve-the-beast scenario. But my bet is that they panic and scatter over the end of the GB tax cuts. Their quaint little signed Norquist pledges will prove their undoing. If they don't, it will break the GOP hold on the House in 2014.
  7. Condition2SQ Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    Virulent anti-Obama radio talk show host Neal Boortz tees off on the social conservatives.

  8. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    That illustrates the point I was making with 44. How do you "shut up" about abortion when you have religious right voters clamped like a swarm of leeches onto every bit of exposed flesh? And leeches don't swarm! Lol. My stupid metaphors.
    Last edited by Jabbadabbado, Nov 7, 2012
  9. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    And on the flip-side, could it also be the result of the basic advantage that all incumbents get? Would you hold up what you just said as why Bush got re-elected for a second term vs Kerry? After all, the popular vote percentages were almost the same, just reversed. (this election, Obama got 50.3% vs Romney's 48.1%. That election, Bush got 50.7% vs Kerry's 48.3%) Both Obama and Bush got a push by the fact that a tie goes to the incumbent, due to the fact that the public is loath to change hands right in the middle of something that needs to be finished. But that's KK's point. Such a close split represents both an endorsement and caution to the winner, and vice versa. His post was made in response to the now yearly claims that this will be the last year of the republican party. This is Obama's day, and he deserves it, but he actually has to you know, perform with the chance he gets for the second term. If not, the another party turnover will be in store for the next election. It won't effect the outgoing President of course, but it will frame the next election and how far the pendulum swings.
  10. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    "OMG, how did we not get the female/hispanic/black vote?"

    How about change your friggin tune to, "Gee, what did we do morally and ethically wrong that caused us to lose power?"

    Right and wrong. The mode of thinking seems to be 'how do I keep my job' rather than 'how do I do the right thing by everyone so I can keep doing good things for the populace'.
  11. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    That suggests that they've totally missed the point....
  12. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Double post
    Last edited by Chancellor_Ewok, Nov 7, 2012
  13. TheShinyLightsaber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    Easy. The Republicans did not make their platform Free Crap.
  14. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Add on post. It's easy. You shut up about abortion. The complicated issue about abortion is that just as many women as men are pro-life within that subset. The area that dooms abortion proponents is the area where it spills over to being a sole source woman's issue, such a comment about rape, incest, or taking away choice and such. They were both stupid in their comments, but I think it was Akin who even said something like "doctors tell me that raped women don't get pregnant." Doctors tell you? Like that comes up during dinner with your physician friends? But the point is that whatever "doctors" say about rape has nothing to do with the larger abortion issue, and it certainly doesn't reflect the pro-choice/pro-life debate.

    Tying rape to abortion makes about as much sense as tying torture to the one extreme case where a nuclear bomb is going to go off under the Statue of Liberty. They're meaningless examples under the larger issue. If you are pro-life, just say "I'm pro-life" and deflect the issue like every other politician does. Pro-life people will vote for you, pro-choice people will vote against you, and those who don't care will make a decision based on other issues.
  15. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Newsflash: it does not matter if it is capitalism, socialism, communism; none of it is free. There is no such thing as a bad form of government or economic policy. Those things are just tools. It is how the people in charge of those items use them.
  16. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    You don't need to make your platform "vote for me and I'll give you free stuff," but when you have a president who fought a war based on a lie and when you have candidates who think that creation science should be taught instead of evolution, yeah, your party needs to re-evaluate a few things.
  17. TheShinyLightsaber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    I disagree. I believe Socialism is inherently evil. The ends never justify the means and so long as I am alive, I will not rest in my endeavor as a Sheepdog to mankind.
  18. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I advise everyone to ignore.
  19. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    From an outsiders perspective, I'd note the following:

    1) I vote for the Liberal Party in Australia. This is the equivalent of the Conservative Party in the UK.
    2) I supported Mr Obama to win this election.

    Having cleared this up, I'd firstly say I could never envision a scenario whereby if I could vote in US elections, I would vote Republican.

    The party's courting of luddite religious and conservative types has, in my view, made it a party that is incapable of compromise or often, reason. The vast amount of GOP campaigning relied heavily on idiotic hyperbole and lowered the tone of the debate.

    In short, compared to the Conservatives in the UK, the Republicans look both intellectually underdeveloped, and shrilly irrational.

    The religious right and their ilk aren't going to vote Democrat and as the pandering to them got worse this election, they also showed they can't mobilise enough of an effect base to swing an election. It once again rests on middle class, moderate voters who decide election-to-election who to vote for based on, among other things, what that party offers them.

    Mitt Romney, as I've said a few times, would probably have been a fairly decent President (I still have... issues with his Mormonism, but that's neither here nor there). I work closely with fund managers so I know their types, and as much fun as it is to defer to the Hollywood/TV stereotype of rich Jordan Belfort types, most are very intelligent, dynamic and adaptive people who can make decisions under pressure after weighing up all the factors. You cannot succeed in funds management without being willing to firstly change your mind in light of new evidence; and by being hidebound, conservative, and closed to opportunities (i.e. the "hates the poor" argument is made by people who are largely ignorant).

    If Mitt had this in him, why did he pander? Because without pandering to the stupidest, crudest, nastiest, most intolerant, most bigoted, most fearful segments of the country the Party wouldn't back him? Voters saw through it, but it reminds me of the trades union influence in Labor party politics here - a tiny segment of the population given disproportionate influence whilst remaining divorced from reality.

    As David Cameron has shown, you can be an intelligent Conservative and not appear grubby, stupid, or intolerant at every turn. What the Republican party needs to do is look at the playbook of conservative leaders like Mr Cameron in the UK (as well as Mr Blair [face_whistling]) or John Howard in Australia and notice they didn't go for nastym unsophisticated blue collar conservatism to win.

    Instead they'll obviously go further to the right, blaming the election loss not on their inherent problems, but luck and deception by Mr Obama. Excellent work, GOP.
  20. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Oh good grief. At this point you just sound like a troll trying to push buttons. Shew. Away.
  21. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Not so easy to do in a GOP primary when both guys are pro life. One guy want to be the most pro-lifeingest. He wants you to know he is the more legitimate of the pro-lifers, that the life of the unborn child is even more sacred to him than it is to his opponent. There are the leeches. They're swarming.
  22. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9

    This. TheShinyLightsaber is a sock/troll.
  23. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    Just talk the topic

    Ender, I think that definitely highlights the biggest problem for Republicans right now... Romney couldn't do that because he had to get through the primary, and so he had a big run to the right to reassure the social conservatives, then try to get back to moderate positions after that. In some extent, I can see this as a problem when the president is chosen by the people, rather than by the party officials in some fashion, like what happens in the parliamentary systems. I do wish they could separate off from the religious conservatives since, as you said, they're not going anywhere.
  24. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    "Wish" is the right word. I'm sure it's not clear to anyone how the GOP would go about doing that.
  25. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    That's not the problem. Most are religious conservatives (or are cynical enough to manipulate this group) so they don't want to "separate off."