Senate The Future of the Republican Party

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Jabbadabbado, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    dont forget martin o'malley, governor of maryland and former mayor of baltimore (interesting aside, he's pretty obviously the primary inspiration for mayor carcetti on the wire). that guy would kick any republicans ass. like, in a physical fight, not necessarily in an election but possibly there too

    [IMG]
  2. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    If there's one thing that might (might!) make Maryland go red it's nominating him.
  3. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Because Akin wasn't alone.

    Because Akin and the other Republicans' views on rape are exponentially worse than anything Kucinich said. There's a difference between forcing raped women to give birth, and wanting a Department of Peace.

    Because the GOP came back around to fully supporting Akin and his Senate campaign.
    Juliet316 likes this.
  4. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    We've done this about four times now. We say Akin was not alone in his views because he wasn't. Like Akin, the Republican Party's 2012 platform called for outlawing abortion without any noted exception. His absolutist stance is also reflected in the Romney campaign's promise to defund Planned Parenthood, and the broad conservative support for the Susan G Komen Foundation to do the same. We can further detect similar strands of thought in the Blunt Amendment, which was a very prominent part of Republican messaging at all levels for several weeks, and had the practical effect of allowing employers to create access barriers to contraception.

    By contrast, you've highlighted Kucinich's "Department of Peace." What similar movement has there been by the Democratic Party as a whole on that front? Has that ever made it into a party platform? Were there some tentative steps towards trying to form such a Department during the Obama Presidency? You can't compare the two because there has not been a comparable level of commitment to the idea from the rest of the Party.

    Ultimately, though, this doesn't matter. If you want to think that the Republican Party is in excellent shape, it's platform has wide appeal, and the only objection people had to Todd Akin is that he just needed a bit more media training, you're welcome to. But it just sort of demonstrates the point some others have been trying to make.
  5. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    In 2007, Kucinich put foward a bill in the House to "establish a department of Peace and Nonviolence" in HR 808. There were 52 cosponsors of that bill, representing just over 20% of the Democrats in the House at the time. The previous version, in 2005, had 74 cosponsors, or 35% of the Democrats in the House at that time. While this is clearly not the numbers that the anti-abortion stuff has been garnering, that's really not fringe at that point, either, imo.
  6. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    wait remind me what's wrong with having a department tasked with peace and nonviolence?
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  7. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    Does there need to be a republican party?

    I mean, wouldn't moderate republicans love to bring in voters and members in the Latino, African American, Asian American, American Indian, and Indian American communities without having being bound to the far right fringe? maybe a new more moderate that tempers conservative values with practical application would feild broader appeal.

    I was no fan of Romney, I felt he was a cynical shapshifter who ran from achivement most would be proud off to appeal to a fringe group. But I saw his record and it was far better than President Bush 43 as a govener. As potential presidents go (though I voted Obama) I admit we could do alot worse.

    I believe it was not Romneys "flipflopityness" that cost hime the election it was the republican parties behavior, in their primaries and over the course of the Obama presidency.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  8. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    I would definitely agree with that. They started saying it loudly after the midterms, but there were Republicans and Tea Partiers saying, "don't worry, Obama is a one term President," on the day after he was elected. They spent four years intentionally trying to stonewall him at every opportunity and it bit them in the ass, which they richly deserved.
    Arawn_Fenn and Valairy Scot like this.
  9. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Every thing I've read from the right recently shows that they have not learned the lessons they need to learn. Sean Hannity cynically says he's 'evolved' on the immigrant's rights issue...two days after the election. Libertarian Republicans (or at least the vocal ones are throwing tantrums over the results. I really don't think they'll be in shape to retain their majority in the House if they piss off enough people. You can say: "Sure, their greatest supporter is Gerry Mander" but I think enough rage at them could overcome even the best drawn districts.

    I wasn't happy GWB was elected and maybe I did say some things like, "How can this country be so dumb?" But I did not say, "It's the end of 'Murkuh!" Except in jest. However, these people seem to actually believe a second Obama administration will be the worst thing to happen to this country since women were given the right to vote. I just can't fathom what kind of mind it would take to wake up in the morning, get angry about politics, and shun everyone you know simply because they have a different ideology than you. I've never given up friends for that.

    The other aspect is that these people demand we respect their views despite these views being abhorrent to any sane person. Hurdles to birth control? Deport all of the Mexicans? Gays are contemptible? What person thinks these are thoughtful and rational and well thought out? Most of the time they either bring up appeals to authority or appeals to tradition. Neither of those make them 'right'. Just that it's comforting to think that way.

    Someone elsewhere brought up the point that social conservatives are like the Germans in WWII after Stalingrad: they fight, retreat, entrench, fight, retreat, etc. I think that's a rather astute point given Hannity's 'evolution'. I'd say the Republicans need to change, but I think the people that cynically 'change' to win elections need to be tossed out and shunned by any sane person and held up as an example to the rest that that behavior will not be tolerated by anyone.
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  10. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    There were folks who said an Obama FIRST presidency would "ruin the country" and transfer the hard-earned money of the workers to the too-lazy-to-earn-it crowd (I worked with some). Wonder how much "worse" they think it can get? Country is still standing, economy is slowly improving....
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  11. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Jindal has denounced Romney's comments as incredibly stupid, says the GOP has to stop being the party of stupid, said the GOP needs to give up on the tax breaks for the rich, and has also said he supports cracking down on the big bank and corporations. Guys, I think Jindal is running for President! :p But since he supports creationism in public schools as Governor of Louisiana, and had his own stupid moment when saying we don't need volcano monitoring, I think the GOP would still have plenty of fail if Jindal becomes the nominee.

    McDonnell has also come out and said that the American people have clearly spoken, and the GOP should give up on tax breaks for the rich. He has also said they need to reach out better to Hispanics and other minorities.

    Republicans in general have also said it's time to generate some revenue (raise taxes) and provide a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants (amnesty).

    (But not everyone is moving Forward in the GOP... Santorum is busy organizing another run for the presidency)



    * Let's say the Republicans remain humbled, and do follow-through on allowing more tax revenue and amnesty for illegal immigrants.
    * Also, let's say the GOP doesn't suffer through another super-conservative backlash, and maybe even get slightly more popular for finally compromising on taxes and immigration.
    * Let's also assume that they've gotten the memo that opposing abortion in all cases (including cases of rape) and trying to defund PP are really unpopular with the American people.

    Then what does the Republican party stand for? Opposition to gay marriage? War with Iran?

    What issues do they take their stand on now?
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Nov 16, 2012
  12. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Haley Babour has also said pretty much the same thing as McDonnell, provided the Democrats give some concessions on entitlement reform.
  13. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I think his exact words were something like 'the party needs to bend over and get a proctology exam'
    [face_laugh]

    (and entitlement reform should be easier now that Ryan's plan has been rejected...just raise the Social Security cap, which will fund it for several more decades... and for Medicare, I guess they could allow it to negotiate for prescription drug prices and import prescription drugs, while also stopping pharmaceutical companies from blocking generic drugs)



    But really, what does the GOP stand for now?
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Nov 16, 2012
    Juliet316 likes this.
  14. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Well, they know that Obama is evil and that gays are still bad. So I guess you can consider that a platform.
  15. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Yeah, but they won't be running against Obama in 2016
  16. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    *Jeb Bush? no more bushes, please. big gubmint-loving nincompoops.
    *Chris Christie? too fat, too insecure
    *Bobby Jindal? sure
    *Susana Martinez? i like her, but i want to see how she does over the next few years
    *Bob McDonnell? pretty solid, but bland. plus va isn't much of a challenge, really.
    *Rand Paul? wild card. throw him in the mix
    *Paul Ryan? he's ruined. too bad because he seemed like a no-bs type, which i like.
    *Marco Rubio? sure, maybe. i don't know.
  17. Bender666 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    star 2
    Don't forget Chuck Norris.
  18. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    They may have to run against Hiliary though, who is very qualified now.
    First Lady
    Senator
    Secretary of State

    That's not a bad resume for the Oval Office.
    Summer Dreamer and Juliet316 like this.
  19. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    You think she'll get botox first?
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    A ha ha ha no he didn't.
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  21. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    its hard to be "no-bs" when your entire ideology is bs. im assuming he meant "no-bs" as in "surly", rather than "eminently sensible"
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  22. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    i'll amend: "results-driven"
  23. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
  24. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Yeah, Ryan's 'results driven' mostly terrible ones. He voted for the war in Iraq, that medicare prescription drug boondoggle, and for tax cuts during the war. If these are your idea of being 'results driven' then I feel immense pity for you.
    Last edited by Fire_Ice_Death, Nov 17, 2012
  25. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    Gibberish is not debate. Darth Boba
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Nov 18, 2012