Discussion in 'The Senate Floor' started by Jabbadabbado, Nov 6, 2008.
No. Darth Boba
I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a chat thread.
yes that's the joke. you use words that don't mean anything in the contexts you use them in. its not your fault tho.
the american education system is terrible -- largely thanks to folks like paul ryan. in this way the system creates a sort of **** uruboros quasi-neanderthals, each generation devouring its infrastructure just a little more and leaving things just a little ******** for the next
Now that combat operations in Iraq are done, it won't be nearly the issue it was in, say 2008 when McCain, Obama, Biden, and Hilary were running as sitting Senators; but yeah, Medicare (and his extreme warping of the truth in his Convention speech and his debate with Biden) is going to dog him should he decide to run in 2016,
"We had to destroy the village in order to save it."
Some people don't buy this line of reasoning - but unfortunately some do.
If Hillary Clinton does decide to run, will any Democrats even run against her this time? And would any who do even have a chance?
I think both Governor Brian Schweitzer of Montana and Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York have said they definitely wouldn't run in 2016 if Hillary runs. And a study was done that showed NY Governor Andrew Cuomo's base of support and fundrasers would almost entirely support Hillary over him, if they had to choose.
I don't think any Republican would do that well against her either. She would have the Obama Coalition, and be able to expand it into even more states like Missouri, Montana, Georgia, Arizona while also taking back North Carolina and possibly Indiana.
And she'll have many of the foreign policy credentials from being Sect. of State that many accused Obama of lacking in '08
The only ways the GOP stands even half a chance is if A)the world does indeed end like the Mayans said it would on Dec. 21 or B)Hilary does, indeed, chose not to run.
except madam clinton was considered a foregone conclusion on track to coronation in 2008 too and look how that turned out
oops wrong thread
I know there's plenty of precedent, but I think she's too old, especially for two terms. While at this point she'd probably win the nomination and the presidency, I want someone who's younger and hasn't been near the top of the political establishment for 20 years. New blood.
Plus, the last 70-something President we had suffered from an age-related degenerative brain disease. That probably wouldn't happen with Clinton, but I'd be more comfortable with someone who isn't in her twilight. Obviously this would also exclude Biden.
A) I believe she'd still be in her sixties if she ran in 2016. That's not old in Presidential terms. B)Women live longer than men and C) You can't prove one way or another definitively that Regan was suffering from Alzhiemer's when he was in office (I presume that was what you were referring to when you meantioned age - related degenerative brain disease)
Why would Kirsten Gillibrand run for President? What has she done besides be Chuck Schumer's shadow? And it's not as if she's even had a long time doing that (Yes, I am still bitter the seat didn't go to Caroline Kennedy, who rightly deserved it.).
yes you can. maw ***** thought ketchup was a vegetable
I don't think Hillary would be too old. McCain was much older, and really not in great physical shape, not only from age but also from his years in Vietnam. Hillary just has some wrinkles and gray hair.
Gillibrand (along with Schweitzer, Klobuchar, Warner, Villagarosawhatever, and someone else) gave speeches to the Iowa and New Hampshire delegations at the convention this summer. Gillibrand also has built up a network of grassroots support and fundraisers across the nation.
She would 69 or 70 when inaugurated, which would leave her at 77 or 78 at the end of a second term. That's old, woman or not. And I don't care about McCain. He was also too old, and his age made his VP pick all the more idiotic.
And while it's impossible to "prove" because we can't send a doctor back in time to examine him, Reagan was pretty clearly exhibiting symptoms while in office. He was diagnosed only 2 or 3 years after he left, and Alzheimer's isn't exactly a fast-progressing disease.
As the untalented Mr. Romney has just demonstrated, it is entirely possible to build a massive donor base while being otherwise unsuited to the office of President. So I ask again, what has she actually done?
As to this Reagan question, formal diagnosis is beside the point. The White House Chief of Staff chaired a meeting in which there was serious consideration about the need to effectively sideline the President from any authority because of his declining mental status. While they ultimately decided that was unnecessary, and that he would manage the remainder of his term fine, I would say the the mere need for such a debate is way too far down that road, and should never be repeated. Anyone for whom there is that great a question about their capacity simply shouldn't be President to begin with.
recent long-range studies have indicated that people who develop alzheimer's often begin showing signs a decade or more in advance of official diagnosis ~rogue_ten, medical science correspondant
True. But there's a lot we know (and even more that we don't) about Alzheimer's/dementia now than we knew back in the Reagan era. Back then the only way to know even remotely if Reagan had been suffering from Alzheimer's would have been an autopsy after death.
@Darth Guy and his remarks about Hilary's fitness for office; right now she seems to be from all outward appearances to be in pretty good physical and mental shape (she'd have to be to do the job of Sec. or State) and regardless of whether that could change in four years or not, it's all a moot point until we get closer to 2016 and Hilary decides whether to run or not. Right now she says she doesn't want to.
but the facts of the disease are unlikely to have altered in 30 years. therefore we can probably extrapolate that the ***** was demented as ****, based on the facts i cited above
That's a really vague question.
What did Obama do before running for President? What have Clinton, Klobuchar, Schweitzer, Cuomo, O'Malley, Patrick, Hickenlooper, Kaine, Markell, Warner, Warren, Christie, Rubio, Cruz, Jindal, Haley, Martinez, McDonnell, Portman, Santorum, Thune, Paul, etc, done?
What's more important is what you think they will do, how good of a President you think they'd be.
I'm not saying I'm supporting Gillibrand, just saying that she could run for President. And that she and Schweitzer have publically said they wouldn't run if Hillary does.
Presidential candidates now have to take a medical test too. So I don't think they'd let someone with Alzheimer's slip into the nomination.
And Hillary is now saying she needs a year or two off to recharge before she decides anything.
I wish we could all get over lionizing Reagan. He was suffering from dementia, he was politically insane, and he was only vaguely a mediocre president in every capacity other than how he made America feel about itself (ie, it was suddenly ok to pretend that the social revolution of the 60s and 70s never took place and to be completely and jingoistically proud of that). The man was a menace whose election and persisting warm memory reveals ugly things about America.
EDIT: And my dad photographed him within a year or so his leaving audience and he could tell he was pretty far down the Alzheimer's path at that point.
Maybe if they man up and actually appeal to the common american person, which includes all African-Americans and Hispanics and other minorities, instead of only just whites, they might get a chance.
So it begins....Rubio was at a fundraiser in Iowa today.
" And Hillary is now saying she needs a year or two off to recharge before she decides anything. "
There a lot of things about Hillary that could get her in trouble. She has an incredibly frosty personality and also its unlikely that young people and blacks will come out for her as they did for Obama. Obama seemed like a nice guy even when he started/lead from behind a war, Hillary could never do that and seem likeable.
all obams needs to do is campaign for her just like bubba did with obams and it'll be a done deal. actually bubba will probably campaign for her too so with both of them at it, it's gonna be like a SUPER done deal. unless obams REALLY screws up over the next four.