Senate The Future of the Republican Party

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Jabbadabbado, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Well why else would they use the over the top scenario of defaulting so they can go after the sozalist! marksist Obamacare?

    Seriously, it's like a temper tantrum.

    I think many people look at the GOP today and ask "do I really want these boobs in charge of all the presidency and congress again?".

    Fight the ACA on its own terms and actual problems if they pop up. But, it's too late now. They screwed up.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Oct 15, 2013
  2. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    To 44 and KK and the others that say the Democrats "refuse to negotiate" (even though their position is, again, they will negotiate just not when the debt ceiling/government are used as bargaining tools) - from Politico just a couple of minutes ago:

    Nancy Pelosi wants to make a deal.But every time it appears she could deliver the votes for important legislation, the House minority leader is left standing with no one to negotiate with. [...] Pelosi has reached out to the speaker nearly every day for weeks, according to Democratic aides, either talking to the Republican leader on the floor or calling him to the point of pestering."

    It's becoming obvious by now, almost to the point of redundancy, that this "crisis" is the result of a botched, ill-conceived strategy by the Tea Partiers in the House. They forced Boehner and the rest of the caucus into this, against their will, because they were delusional enough to think that Obama would cave and give them what they wanted. When he didn't, they were left goal-less and strategy-less. Boehner has no control over his caucus (this has been evident enough for some time now) and can't negotiate because he can't deliver his end of the bargain. Even the Senate GOP - minus Lee and Cruz - is relatively sane at this point.
  3. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    It's actually amazing how short-sighted the GOP played their hand and how much they botched their long-term strategy. If they let Obamacare roll out and, as they're predicting, self-destruct and start killing people then the public will back them in reforming it - not to mention they'd take back Congress next year and cripple Obama. Exploiting the disaster of a rollout that has occurred over the last two weeks would have given them more leverage to enact meaningful reforms than the current circus that has caused their party and long-term bargaining chips to diminish to almost zero political capital. There are serious problems with Obamacare they could offer to reform and improve; instead they've decided the swords they'll die on are the Vitter Amendment and the medical device tax with using a shutdown & debt ceiling breach as a means to inflate their hand. Instead, they've allowed the Tea Party to drag them to their lowest polling numbers ever, got virtually no concessions out of it, dwindle their political capital to zero, and hurt their 2014 outlook.
    Last edited by shinjo_jedi, Oct 15, 2013
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  4. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Last edited by Fire_Ice_Death, Oct 15, 2013
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  5. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    Cantor has all the power in the house at the moment. If the senate agrees to a compromise and all but the two boobs agree with it along with the president I believe he will let the democrats table a motion and accept the deal. Boehner gave him the power cause he wants to be the one that gives Cantor the order but reality is if Boehner still doesn't like what the Senate Republicans are doing Cantor can and will stab him in the back and let the democrats win. Or perhaps that is what Boehner wants to happen. He will hang it on Cantor and Cantor won't mind the vitriol coming his way from the conservatives. In the meantime when the dust settles Cantor keeps his job with Boehner and Boehner gets re elected as as house speaker. Boehner rewards Cantor with what seems like betrayal but in reality saving Boehner's hide.
  6. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    My point Shane, is that larger investors tend to mirror smaller ones.

    Yes, middle-America has been hurting, but upper-America hasn't been investing, either. When companies hoard cash, they don't create jobs. When the more well-to-do get nervous, that's a really bad sign.

    And what's happened to the middle class is just disgusting.
  7. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Hey, watch it - I'm a boomer. And not a on-the-cusp one. I think the GOP is acting almost, well, criminally (at least in a moral sense). A minority IS holding the rest of the country hostage and just watch - some of those Tea Partiers will be rewarded for their "principled stand." And others, who should know better, will forget (and maybe forgive) after the heat dies down.
  8. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Hey, my father's a boomer as well and he's embarrassed by the Hoveround brigade.
  9. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    It's ending in such a shocking manner: McConnell cuts a deal with the Democrats and Pelosi provides most of the votes after Boehner lets it onto the floor. So we just upset the markets and furloughed a million people for ... nothing. Great job, Boehner and Cruz.
  10. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Don't forget Marco Rubio and that other Cruz lackey whose make escapes me at the moment, but also sided with him. The reason why nobody is mentioning the others is because except the guy whose name I can't remember, they abandoned him the second after the government shut down. Ted Cruz is getting hammered in public because he's the only idiot that still believes they're 'winning'. Which brings me to the current problem with politics: the idea that you can 'win' in politics when it's chiefly about cooperation.

    They've turned it into such a team sport mentality that for you to 'win' the other guy has to 'lose' (i.e. Their policy isn't adopted) and it shouldn't be that way. It should be that something is proposed, it's debated, and if the policy isn't accepted then it's not adopted. If it is and it needs some changes then change them, but don't act as if you've 'won" anything. The win/loss mentality may be great for sports and war, but it's absolute crap anywhere else.
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  11. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    Don't worry Cruz will spin this thing his way. He is a dick that way. You will see Boehner saying we wouldn't back down for you. We will try again next year. Give us more money and we will not stop until Obc is eradicated. Meanwhile like any good con artists they take the money and run. Cause after a while even the republicans don't want to listen to the tea party any more.
  12. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    The other guy is Mike Lee of Utah, who actually creeps me out more than Cruz. At least Cruz has original ideas - Lee is more of a sidekick than Chewie. But there are many others who think they're winning - they all just reside in the House and have less of an ability to grandstand (Ted Yoho, Steve King, Justin Amash, Michelle Bachamnn, Paul Broun, etc.).
    Last edited by shinjo_jedi, Oct 16, 2013
  13. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Will the House scuttle the deal? What do people think?
  14. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    I think it'll pass, as long as Boehner allows a vote on it. There's long-been a majority of representatives that want this to end and were willing to vote for a clean CR and all this requires is 17 Republican votes (Pelosi can and will likely deliver all 200 Democratic votes).

    One thing that I've pondered these recent days: what would our government be like if the House Democrats were as radical and polarizing as their GOP counterparts, what if Pelosi wasn't able to rule her caucus with an iron fist, and what if we had a President Romney (or McCain/Palin White House) that was as susceptible to the Tea Party as Boehner is?

    The only reason we have a deal is because Pelosi has, once again, demonstrated she runs a tight freaking ship and McConnell/most Senate GOPers are still sane.
    Last edited by shinjo_jedi, Oct 16, 2013
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  15. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Exactly. Well stated.
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  16. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    Thanks! I might add they've also hurt their long-term standing around Obamacare by painting it as a program that will literally "destroy America" and the health care system. By painting it in such extreme and absolute terms they've handicapped themselves: even if it underperforms, it will look like a success. And we've already started seeing the repercussions of this: the rollout went awful and exposed some major flaws and it's approval rating has gone up because, surprise surprise, it's not "destroying America." So what happens when it works - even a little - and only requires some minor reforms? The GOP will have discredited themselves by taking such an extreme position. If they would have started from the beginning with a storyline of "it sucks and is badly designed, but is at least a basis, so here's an alternative/major improvements we've come up with" they'd be in much better shape politically as well as accomplish more of what they want policy-wise.
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  17. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Not a chance now. If Boehner brings it to a vote, and he will, it will pass.

    It's not a terrible deal. It keeps the spending at sequester levels 'til after the first of the year and has new income verification measures for the ACA that were lacking.

    But did we really need a friggin shutdown and push up against default for that?

    The sequester levels were already in place and the lack of income verification was already growing unpopular and likely would've been remedied next year.

    Numbskulls.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Oct 16, 2013
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  18. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    Cantor brings it up, not Boehner. If the tea party idiots decide to screw themselves further he will ignore them and just have the democrats pass it and make it happen.
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  19. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    The Republicans looks like total buffoons. Anybody see Ted Cruz give a victory speech at the Capitol today?

    What universe does he live in?

    Peace,

    V-03
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  20. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Uhmm....Marvel? :p
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  21. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    Nancy Pelosi controls every vote in her caucus; Boehner controls a third. Incredible.
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  22. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    LOL, Shane. Marvel is too good for him; it has heroes.

    What a total disaster for the GOP. If they want to have any hope of influencing the upcoming national agenda, they need to send these guys packing. A third party is the way to go.

    If nothing changes, and we fight this battle again in January, I think they will lose the House come next fall.

    Peace,

    V-03
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  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    DC is more appropriate anyway; they're similarly unconcerned with collateral damage.
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  24. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    So a ohio representative Renacci is stating he is against bipartisan politics. He even voted against it. But apparently he is lying. He voted no for the final vote. Not yes like Boehner.
  25. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    My hope is that they try this again (and some are hinting they may) and it'll either cause them to lose the House in the fall or enough Tea Partiers to lose primary bids to more moderate, sane Republicans. The country can deal with a Republican-controlled House; the country can't deal with a House controlled by a bunch of delusional radicals.