The Future of Your JC Community

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Lord Bane, Mar 4, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Pyrus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 1998
    star 4
    Wipe it out, all of it.
  2. anya Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 4
    Regarding the matter of socks:
    I have socks, more than the 3 allowed, yet I only used them for a few posts. While I understand that socks can, and most often are, amusing and can help a member contribute in a special way to the forums (Flirtatious_Sock comes to my mind), I also agree that too many socks are a problem.

    How to solve this?

    There's the polite way, the one that was showed with this thread, that consists in asking everyone to give up their "extra" socks (A thread in YJCC would have a bigger effect). I know some regular members would be against this action, but it seems better than to force the powers that be to more drastic actions.

    As for the number of posts, I don't think there should be a limit of how many can be made per day (though in theorie there is, with the one-post-per-minute policy). Increasing the time necessary between posts could be a solution but, sometimes even with it being one minute, it gets annoying. There are various situations in which that can happen (having just posted and having another reply window open, for instance). Despite that, it seems the best solution to keep the number of posts made in YJCC in check.

    Two moderators were recently apointed to that forum, though. If there's a need, I'm more than sure that other regular members have the time, dedication and will to help. With so many members, surely a hand-full can help?
  3. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    First off, I'd most like to see more mods to come on and let up keep our forum nicely the way it is.

    Secondly when I said that VIP idea I meant bring on 20-25 people who have been around and know the rules. Maybe they're on their way to be mods, maybe not, but most importantly, they're all different. Regular people from all different views. Maybe they'd keep a single VIP color like yellow to distinguish them. But i meant regular members most of all: Genghis; you, Dan; Obi-Zahn; Launch; those type of people. I never meant it to blow out of hand into Getstapo or Nazis.

    I've given up my socks, who else will join me?

    ¤Night
  4. anya Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 4
    I don't think that would solve the prioblem, Night. Imagine the work those 25 people would have to go through, if they were to evaluate all topic requests sent to them. And how would they evaluate which are fit to be posted which are not?
    And if they didn't have to choose, jsut posted every thread idea sent to them, what would the pourpose be?

    While it could be done, it seems like making it more trouble than it's worth...

    I'm giving up my socks as well.

    Leia_Organics
    Molly_Hardy
    Luthien_Tinúviel
    Darth_Real_Life
    (my original one, and the only I liked)

    I think those are all, but any mod may delete/ban others if there are more under my IP (static IP, so no dangers there).
  5. Nin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2001
    star 4
    If mods have such strong feelings for socks what is this thread doing in the welcome forum? Doesn't it encourage it's creation?
    But I wash my hands from this matter. Trully I can't think of a practical solution for the control of trolling/spamming socks, otherwise catching them in action.

    reinstate the old GTKY thread, then lock all the other social threads

    Well, that's fine for older members. You know each other quite well and make good GTKY players.
    I and some other newer members still have to learn a bit more about the Community before posting in a GTKY.
    Some other social threads are good clean fun and I think they should not be closed.
  6. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    Making normal members unable to create new topics is quite simply a very bad idea.

    And I don't think people volunteering to "give up" their socks is necessary. Some people just need to be more prudent in their sock usage. There are tens of thousands of unused usernames, and I'm sure many are socks. There's no need to ban or delete them.
  7. anya Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2000
    star 4
    It's not absolutly necessary, but it seems to me like something that could help in controling the JC population.

    By saying "x, y, z and alpha are my socks, but I don't plan on using them again" you're making a commitment, even if the socks themselfs aren't banned. I'm not saying to force that action, that's why it should be volunteer...
  8. jedi-mind-trick VIP

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2001
    star 5
    I do not believe that eliminating the social threads is a solution to the problem, because I really do not see them as part of the problem. The people who frequent such threads are not trolling or creating problems for the JC as a whole. Furthermore, if a problem arises, the regulars of the particular threads seem to police their own. Moreover, the JCC is not the only place where social threads exist. Therefore, if you eliminate them from the JCC, then the pressure will be on the eliminate them from all forums (opening can of worms, so to speak), and that would include things like the Social Countdown threads, the Starbucks and the Rouge Squadron.

    So overall, if you eliminate social threads in the JCC, then you must eliminate them all on principle. Then you would be creating a situation where users are no longer allowed to socialize with one another, only to discuss "topics," and I seriously believe that will determent the comradery between users and many of them will leave for other message boards.

    Regarding the issue of spam and socks: I honestly cannot think of any regulation that would curb these problems. As Sil mentioned, if you limit the number of posts that people are able to make per day, it would only increase the sock problem. Furthermore, it seems a shame to punish all for the actions of a few. Perhaps the current mods could take a stiffer stance on obvious/obnoxious socks (Justin Timberlake, Brad Pitt, etc) and just ban them on sight, rather than waiting for the sock to commit an offense?

    I would also like to address the point that Lord Mauly Maul makes: how exactly does one define "spam" in the JCC? My meaning is that one man's spam is another man's treasure. One could possibly say that the entire forum is spam, so that is a difficult issue to address.

    I honestly believe the only workable solution could come from the members themselves. I think Darth Dark Helmet said it perfectly when he asked for the regular user to "use common sense." Furthermore, I am all for the addition of more mods to the JCC (if needed) and also perhaps creating a "YJCC Guide to Better Posting," which would inform and encourage members to post in a more responsible manner. In sum, no amount of administrative involvement can be the sole solution to making the JCC better - improvement must come from the regular users.
  9. Dan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 1999
    star 6
    I honestly believe the only workable solution could come from the members themselves. I think Darth Dark Helmet said it perfectly when he asked for the regular user to "use common sense." Furthermore, I am all for the addition of more mods to the JCC (if needed) and also perhaps creating a "YJCC Guide to Better Posting," which would inform and encourage members to post in a more responsible manner. In sum, no amount of administrative involvement can the sole solution to making the JCC better - improvement must come from the regular users.

    I, too, think that's what it comes down to. You guys just promoted two people to moderate that forum. With those two extremely capable people, and maybe a general notice of some sort in YJCC letting the members know you're going to be moderating a bit more than in the past, YJCC won't get any worse. You'll at least contain the problem, and it will probably get better. There really is no administrative action I can see that will help the problem save making more mods.
  10. GIMER Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2000
    star 6
    It's too bad that a thread creator has no power over the rest of the items posted in the thread.

    I know some people would abuse that kind of power, but if I had power over my own threads, I could delete any posts made that were off topic, or flamining, or that kind of thing.

    I would hope that kind of power would give a sense of pride over your own threads, and want you to keep them proper.

    I love the silliness of JCC because it is one place I can be that way. I don't have that at work. (You can't be too silly programming software)


    And I think it is the sock's posting frequency that needs to be looked at. Socks that are used once in a while, or on specific boards where they are appropriate are fine.
    Anyone abusing a sock should be subject to a perm ban on the socks, and a temp ban on the main username.

    And I agree with LMM, that the state of the boards has not changed all that much.
    I think the amount of flaming has definitely gone down too.
  11. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    All good points. My idea was just to try and stop the deleting or locking of the forum :)

    Personally I think the easiest way to control this would be a JC Guide to Better Posting, another mod or two (perhaps), and banning the more raunchy socks.

    As for all socks, I think that instead of banning them, the mods should delete them. Most socks don't have many socks, and the ones that do people wouldn't give up anyway. It will free up the names for actual people, and will lower that "total users" number.

    ¤Night
  12. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    "Perhaps the current mods could take a stiffer stance on obvious/obnoxious socks (Justin Timberlake, Brad Pitt, etc) and just ban them on sight, rather than waiting for the sock to commit an offense?"

    No, you see, socks like that are often the good kind of sock. Socks, when used, should have the purpose of being entertaining. Celebrity socks can be quite fun--maybe not for you, but certainly for other people. Some may find them obnoxious, of course, but I think socks that aren't obvious socks are the ones that could cause real problems. The *NSync socks and others of their ilk usually commit no real offenses and do nothing worthy of banning. Let them have their fun.

    "It's too bad that a thread creator has no power over the rest of the items posted in the thread."

    No it's not. The creator of a thread does not own that thread.

    "As for all socks, I think that instead of banning them, the mods should delete them. Most socks don't have many socks, and the ones that do people wouldn't give up anyway. It will free up the names for actual people, and will lower that "total users" number."

    More effort than it's worth. The total users number is never going to be completely accurate. And really, most of the sock usernames don't need to be freed up for actual people... unless Justin Timberlake and Brad Pitt decide to drop by the JC and want their names or something. ;)
  13. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Hehe, it's ironic isn't it, first they move all the serious topics out of the YJCC to the senate and then they complain that there isn't enough serious/quality talk in the YJCC.

    Although to tell you the truth, I had the most "fun" here at the JC back in Jan/feb/march 01 back in the original GTKY thread, and I pretty much only posted mindless drivel in the YJCC back then. (although it was a cool way to meet members I can't claim any of those posts were true quality.)

    Anyway I'd like to close with one last gif

    [image=http://balrogofmoria.homestead.com/files/dramapic.jpg]
  14. GIMER Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2000
    star 6
    Actually that is my point.
    Without feeling ownership for something, there is not as big a sense of responsibility.

    Most users don't care if they take a thread off topic.
    If you owned your thread, you would care more.
    And since you are the creator, it is your idea and you have every right to own the thread and take responsibility for it.

    It works the same way as a car.
    You probably take much better care of your own car than you do a friend's car. You'd think twice about throwing trash on the floor of your friends car if you knew they would kick you out of the car for it.
  15. Herman Snerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 6
    I really don't have a big problem with socks. Admittedly some of them are about as humorous as a body cavity search, but they're not that difficult to ignore.

    IMO, the real problem with socks is that they allow trolls with dynamic IPs to hang around and continue to spread mischief. However, those people with enough time on their hands to be real troublemakers aren't really going to be dissuaded by the extra couple of minutes that it takes to create a new hotmail account.

    Community does have the ability to somewhat police itself. I think we all remember not too long ago when it seemed everybody and their entire sock drawers were busy making pointless parody threads. Nowadays when one rarely pops up, it usually gets shot down pretty quick by the majority of Community posters.

    So you see, improvement is possible. :)

    I seem to remember in Bane's first post that they were compiling a list of unknown socks. What's the latest on that?
  16. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    The creator of a thread should not have control of what other people say simply because they are posting in that thread.
  17. jedi-mind-trick VIP

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2001
    star 5
    "Perhaps the current mods could take a stiffer stance on obvious/obnoxious socks (Justin Timberlake, Brad Pitt, etc) and just ban them on sight, rather than waiting for the sock to commit an offense?"

    Jeff42, I apologzie, because I didn't explain my meaning well when referring to celebrity socks, etc.

    I am all for the use of socks for humorous purposes, especially celebrity ones (believe it or not, I have one myself. ;) ). I guess the emphasis in my previous statements should be on the word obnoxious. People create socks for the purpose of making a joke. So a sock that has become obnoxious/detrimental, such as some of the NSYNC socks recently did (I only heard about this...correct me please someone if I am wrong), is simply a case of a joke going to far.

    So just to clarify, I when I made that statement, I was referring to obnoxious socks, and only quoted some of the celebrity socks out of convience. Does that make sense? Sorry for the confusion. :)

    EDIT: Someone please order me Hooked on Phonics becasue I can't spell. :p
  18. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    Yeah, I get what you're saying. Of course, you have to remember that "obnoxious" to one person may not be obnoxious to another. So it may be hard to draw the line. :)
  19. Herman Snerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 6
    'Obnoxious' is a judgement call.

    Who remembers all the socks of world leaders that had a conversation one day? Very likely that was just one person talking to himself.

    Now to me that's annoying, but to someone else that might be the funniest thread they read that week.
  20. Night4554 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2000
    star 5
    And Jeff, when i meant deleting socks, I meant socks that were actually socks, like Daybreak. I took it as a sock, but someone very well could want it as a main username.

    As for the celebrity socks, I say let them stay, so long as they behave like any regular member (or maybe even moreso) would be expected. But more rough socks could be banned, like the ones Bane is referring to.

    ¤Night
  21. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    for once GAP and I agree :eek: . You take away the serious topics and then turn around and say the post quality has dropped. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't change the Senate for the world but you had to expect it, which is why I don't spend much time in YCCC anymore. When I do I'm looking for entertainment, not to be enlightened and I'm not looking to make my best personal post to date.

    I'd love to see the maturity go up in the forum and spam down, but YCCC purpose is social first, and people don't socialize by being reserved rigid and formal. One last thought, I know you're not considering removing YCCC, but if it was ever discussed remember that it serves as a silliness/spam net (or damn), of sorts and if taken away the spam will fly (into other forums).
  22. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    I think the rule is that if a bunch of socks having a conversation are really all the same person, that is not allowed. I would guess that there were at least two or three different people behind all the world leader socks.
  23. GIMER Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2000
    star 6
    I'm not talking about deleting your post because I didn't like what you said.

    I'm talking about deleting a post that shows up in this thread saying something like:
    "+1"

    Which has no purpose other than to derail the thread.

    The key word is responsibility.
    You should feel responsible for everything you post as if the whole world knows exactly who you are and is judging you on them.

    You shouldn't feel embarrassed if Scott decided to turn your account over to your grandmother to use for a week. Or worried that she would be appalled by the things you posted, or that she would be flamed by others because of the impression you have made.

    It's too bad.
    The moderators can't make you a responsible person. Everyone needs to do that on their own.
    A lack of responsibility for your own actions leads to the types of problems they want to prevent.

    It's not about preventing silliness and fun.
    It's about knowing what is acceptable and what is going too far / trolling / spamming.
  24. jedi-mind-trick VIP

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2001
    star 5
    Jeff and Herman ...you are totally right. Socks and some spam are/is all subjective, so there really is no way to draw guidelines.

    //throws sock moderation idea in the garbage// :p

    Ok, so perhaps the only answer lies in:
    1. Perhaps more mods with highly respected judgement (if current mods feel more help is needed)?
    2. Higher user responsiblity?

    This sounds so weak when I read it, but as you rightly point out, these issues are subjective...so I honestly can't think of any other suggestions for the solution to the problem.

    //draws blank// :p
  25. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    I understand the concerns. The only problem I see with "drastic measures" on the JCC is that spamming and trolls may spread to unaffected forums on the board.

    Out of curiosity. How many Mods are specifically posted to JCC as their forums? I assume all mods have a responsibility but what number has a specific duty to watch over the JCC?
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