The game changers

Discussion in 'Literature' started by darthcaedus1138, Aug 20, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    What to you are the game changers?

    By this I mean a singular event, figure, person, battle, and so on that totally changed the way we think about something in the EU.

    Also, an author, book, or other EU source that made you rethink what you know.

    Thoughts?
  2. anguirus2003 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2005
    star 1
    This is an interesting topic, I found myself thinking about it for awhile before replying. Since you asked "what to you" was a game changing moment-- I thought it could be taken two ways: historically (as in an event that changed the EU significantly) and personally (something that greatly affected the way you viewed the EU or a particular aspect of it). In regards to the former, I guess the first big "game changer" I experienced was the death of Crix Madine. I still remember reading that chapter all those years back and being surprised Bantam actually killed someone. Seeing the lovely Ms. Captison pass away before the reader's eyes a few books later, leaving her young daughter orphaned back at home, cemented the feeling for me.
    I guess my personal "game changing" moment came upon Jacen's death. As an angsty teen who always questioned the way things were, who experienced confusion over my self identity, I found myself identifying with and connecting to Jacen's struggles throughout the NJO. I took alot of Vergere's teachings to heart-- ideas on the difference between truth and lies, gardens and weeds,and the nature of pain were all things that spoke to me and widened my 16 year old view of the world. To see Jacen become corrupted and die a seemingly unrepentant dark sider struck me as deeply dischordant, and affected me to the point where I found it difficult to return to the this time period of SW.
  3. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    The closest I think we've come is Traitor - for better or worse, almost everything that's happened since was shaped by it. And even then, the "new" perspective was a relatively tame one. Star Wars is a pretty cautious franchise - or is that redundant?
  4. Sacredot Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2009
    How about, y'know, those friggin Clone Wars? Any of them.
  5. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    Retcons and game changers are two different things. "Bruce Willis is dead" is a game changer. "Locke was in a wheelchair" is a game changer. All Along the Watchtower is a game changer.
  6. Cash_Fendar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2009
    star 1
    Not to steal any of Anguirus's thunder, but I'll echo a somewhat similar sentiment in the death of Chebacca. VP was an awesome book IMO, and the Chewie/Han interactions were classic. The whole idea of both of them crammed in a Tie fighter doing the belt run or whatever it was gave me some LOL moments. On the flip side, the demise of one of my favorite characters was somewhat bittersweet. Salvatore gave him a fitting death, a heroe's death no doubt. The scene where Han looks out the window of the Falcon and sees Chewie roaring at the crashing moon of Sernpidal was a powerful mental image. This kind of put in perspective for me the fact that not even the major characters are safe from tragedy.
  7. Sacredot Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2009
    I guess that pretty much leaves Traitor, then. [face_plain]

    (And Chewie dying, and kinda Anakin and Mara dying, I guess.)
  8. DarthMRN Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2007
    star 3
    AotC.

    That is when this Jedi told me to go home and rethink my life...
  9. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Star By Star

    For me, Star By Star was one of the big changes. It wasn't because I liked Anakin Solo all that much. It was because the fact was that they had proved that they weren't just thinning out the ranks of Star Wars B-lister characters. They were actually willing and able to kill longstanding members of the casts.

    Unfortunately, they tried to repeat it with Mara Jade and it ended up being an epic failure.
  10. DarthIktomi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2009
    star 4
    Don't forget Chewie dying. Killing off a character who actually has a personality in the movies is something. Not at all like killing off IG-88 or anything.
  11. spicewood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2007
    star 1
    I actually thought of one scene in particular, not sure if anyone would agree. The scene in Traitor when the Devaronian is hacked apart by Vong. It seemed to be the scene where Jacen chose. He decided, yes there were weeds. He was no longer paralyzed by indecision. To me that was where Jacen became a serious influence on events in the GFFA. From that point on he started doing, instead of thinking about doing.
  12. Kidan TFN EU Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2003
    star 5
    Star By Star

    This is the point where SW Lit. broke the Hero's Journey which resides fundamentally as the core concept of the OT.

    This is the point where we stopped having a HERO to root for, and are just provided morally ambiguous protagonists that are hardly different from the morally ambiguous antagonists.
  13. SteveMollmann Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2003
    star 1
    To me, it would be Star by Star. Killing off Chewie in Vector Prime was big of course, but it feels like a stunt-- you "know" they won't actually kill any other main characters off now that they've proved the situation is serious. But when Star by Star showed that they could kill off the guy being built up as central to the whole storyline, I was a lot less certain; when I was reading Enemy Lines, I was genuinely afraid Wedge would die. If Chewie could die, if Anakin could die, then surely mere Wedge could bite it.
  14. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Wedge is the only guy to survive two Death Star runs.

    Not to mention being the only pilot I know about besides Luke who got shot at by Darth Vader in a TIE fighter and actually survived the experience.

    I'm pretty sure that renders him as being more or less god-mode all the time. :p

  15. darthjulian777 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2008
    star 2
    The yuuzhan vong war was a HUGE one in general, it really changed the structure of the jedi order and how Luke ran it. It also changed up the galatic deck so to say and briefly united the ENTIRE galaxy which would later be attempted by Jag after Caedus. Star By Star was really the biggest game changer in that entire series and also is my favorite star wars novel period. It had the death of Anakin which was HUGE and it just felt like a turning point, not only in the New Jedi Order series but also STAR WARS as a whole.
  16. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Another was Destiny's Way and Unifying Force.

    It was here that Democracy died.

    Daala being elected just settled it, that I no longer cared what happened to the galaxy's lemmings.
  17. DarthIktomi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2009
    star 4
    Plus, he's Wedge. He's named a whole class of character, the anti-redshirt.
  18. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    The game changer was definitely Traitor. SBS provoked some controversey, but it was mostly shock and awe, ultimately. Traitor, however, spawned a legion of threads discussing the nature of the Force, Jedi philosophy, the morality of Jacen and Vergere, and in the end, set the stage for much of the entire post-NJO plotline.

    Not to mention that Matt Stover apparently got his kicks out of watching us nerds hash it out over much of Vergere's lines.
  19. Ambassador Cara Jade Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 6
    Vector Prime, most specifically the death of Chewbacca. For the first time, one of the Saga's nuclear characters was killed, thus making ALL of them vulnerable.
  20. Sacredot Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2009
    This is ironic, in that Traitor is formatted as a Monomyth, what you call the Hero's Journey, and that it did give us someone to root for.
  21. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Traitor.

    I can't stress how this book acts as a pivot for the entire EU. Before it, there was the Bantam era, which was dominated by happiness. Del Rey pushed us towards a darker period, but Traitor completely threw out the goalposts with Vergere and Jacen. It was pretty conservative, in the end, but at the time it reshaped the entire EU - and we're still feeling echoes from it.

    If Vergere, a character who appeared in half a dozen novels is picked to appear in Legacy before any other novel EU character beyond Mara Jade - then you can see how important she was. K'Kruhk is a comic mainstay - Vergere certainly wasn't a novel mainstay.

    If I had to condense the EU into a dozen books, Traitor would be there.
  22. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    The difference is, of course, that it gave us a protagonist to root for, not necessarily a hero.

    And I think that is largely what made it special.
  23. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    Well, to go back a bit, all this stuff about moral complexity and losing "heroes" and stuff, just reminds me that Kube-McDowell did it long before the NJO was even thought about in the Black Fleet Crisis. At the time, it was beyond controversial in its depictions of the characters, the violence, the philosophy of the universe in which it took place.

    Post-NJO, you can see how well it fits tonally with all this other stuff - Star by Star, Traitor, Shatterpoint, all these acclaimed dark masterpieces that have made the EU a little more dark and grim . . . they all come right out of Black Fleet Crisis.

    That series was the moment when I realized that the EU could actually tell entirely mature, intelligent, emotionally resonant stories, that I didn't have to necessarily sacrifice quality just because I was reading a Star Wars book.

    So, yeah, Black Fleet Crisis was a game changer in the way I looked at the EU and, I think, something of a game changer, albeit a few years earlier than most fans were ready for, in the way the EU would be written. Those books don't seem like Bantam books; they seem very much like they were written post-NJO. Except the Yevetha have always rocked harder than the Vong.
  24. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Mark another one down for Traitor.

    Ironically, however, despite this novel's supposedly controversial content that many fans criticized for "not being Star Wars", this novel was the first time I encountered a Star Wars novel that channeled the same type of big, mythic, heroic moments that I got out of the best passages of the films. I read a lot of Star Wars novels before Traitor, and I had a lot of fun seeing the universe expanded, but reading Ganner's last stand was the first EU moment that gave me chills in the same manner that the scene in RotJ does when Luke batters Vader into submission. I appreciate that Stover's Star Wars books are darker and more cerebral, but at the same time I think that one of his greatest contributions to the universe is ability to write action scenes that matter. Traitor showed me how good the EU can be.
  25. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    The YJK... because it gave me the game. Before the YJK, I wasn't interested in SW too much. So to give me the game itself is a pretty big change. ;)

    And on the other end, SBS. It ended the game. It ended civilization for me and the good guys and the hero's journey.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.