Reference The Game Designer's Group

Can I just point something out?

Why, exactly, are we going in one or two week increments, as opposed to 5 days?

 

Yep... so Sinre's game is supposed to wrap up about now (it's 5 days total, not 5 days from the last post discussing it), and then it's Despised's turn for 5 days*, and so on. I know you've just posted a new version, Sinre, but we want a decent amount of turnover in the group so people don't get stuck with a huge queue, y'know?

*I think 14 days is a bit long there - you certainly can give it more time, LordT, as it's your show now, but I think it's fairer to have it slotted back to the end of the queue for Round 2 (and then 3, and 4, etc) rather than blocking out two whole weeks.

 

I agree with ramza above. If the thread is properly activlly used most games have more than enough discussion time in 5 days. And if not it can be brought back up after someone else has had a chance to bring up their game. I mean, I'm sorry, but unless Despised's game is more complicated than a full scale video game ala Mass Effect or Dragon Age, its not going to take 14 days to discuss. In fact I'd bet most of those 14 days would have the thread sitting here collecting dust.

 

Well, I wanted to give Sinre until after Eastern, due to the many people not logging in.

14 days for Despised1´s possible System Lords-like . . . sounds a lot. But I think we are asked for mroe than a discussion here. He wants a little communal game-desigining to be done, with input from the Vets of SL. In his PMs we had at least ´3 topics of the size of a game. but all numbers given are maximum numbers. Not necessary the time I give them. I reserve the right to say "Think nobody replies anymore" and call it a day.

With our list of waiting games, I think we need to speed thing up a but. Let´s see how far we can get in the first 7 days for Despised1 and then see who wants enter the arena next.

PMs go out, now. Sinre, I reattach you to the list. So you get a second run.

 

Well, here is my draft. Don't know if we will really need the time set aside, hopefully we can work efficiently and get on to the next game in the que.

Anyway, I am happy to have the group disect the game and nothing here is set in stone so everything is up for modification. Critique away.

One thing I am unsure of right away is if characters should start from the same clan, or be the leader of their own clans. Either way based on the nature of the Sith the players are going to have to be confrontational, but my thinking is that by keeping them in the same clan there is more opportunity for interaction....but in seperate clans there is more opportunity for conflict.

Also, wondering if I should do a System Lords type of format in which characters can earn credits bi-weekly to purchase soldiers/vehicles/droids/etc in order to strengthen their positions in the Empire. If we do decide to go that route, I will need help creating a workable system.

Also not sure about the way in which I built in character progression. My past games I felt were overly complicated, and I want to keep it simple so I scaled it back. But really not married to this set of rules, if something better comes up I am happy to take a look at it.

Either way, I would appreciate your help. Probably going to be looking for a co-GM as well, I am no stranger to running Sith based games....but it has been a while and I am thinking that having some help would benefit me greatly.

Thanks in advance for the assistance.

The Sith Empire: Live by the sword, die by the sword.

In the year 5400 BBY the Old Sith Empire was near it's pinnacle of might, and still yet to be discovered by the Galactic Republic. Though the period was one of slow expansion and increasing influence and might, the ruling class of the Empire was far from stable and united. The ruling noble clans constantly struggled with each other for supremacy, each seeking ways to lessen the power of rivals in order to position themselves at the top of the political pyramid and have one of their own named Dark Lord to rule over the Empire.

For hundreds of years this cycle rpeated itself over and again. One clan gaining power, others setting their sights upon the ultimate goal. All this time however the great armies of Sith were slowly conquering more planets to add to the wealth of their and bring more power under their control. Adding to the turmoil the clans fight amongst themselves in a constant and bitter struggle for control. Year by year leadership changes, alliances sway, but always the Sith Empire continues to spread it's control to new planets.



The Culture of the Sith Order

Weakness is despised by the Sith, and murderous treachery is the ideal. There is no place for love, compassion or trust in sith-vocabulary, what friendships do exist are based on mutual benefit and common cause, never on trust.

Sith constantly seek to improve their position within the Empire and their clan, as well as in the eyes of the sitting Dark Lord. If it comes at the expense of another's life, so much the better; that makes one less Sith to challenge the newcomer, and it ensures greater security in the new position.

It is a fiercely competitive and hierarchical society. Competition for position within these groups is often based on murder, and competition between groups may also based on destruction. For one to move up the hierarchy s/he must destroy their rival by murdering him/her, leaving no witness alive to testify against them. If any witness' are left alive to testify against the individual or group committing the act s/he will be prosecuted by the perverse justice of the Sith, not because of the act itself, but because of the sloppy way in which it was dealt with. Successful attacks must never be able to be traced, even if suspected there can be no proof left behind.

Finally, like many other cultures based on evil and mistrust, the Sith culture prevents sadistic aggression from totally destroying their society by focusing th

 

It sounds like a game generally like Sinre's - your character has X amount of points to spend on Y powers - except with a more tightly-streamlined power and rank structure, and an emphasis on sneakiness rather than lightsaber combat. Which is all well and good, don't get me wrong, but how is this like System Lords at all?

 

I never created a system for purchasing an army/suppies/etc, but the idea was that if something like that was to be used the players would be able to build their own clans up and either make alliances or fight for supremacy within the empire. The ultimate goal is to get your own character to be the Dark Lord of the Sith Empire, without stretching your own resources too thin. The reason I put in a single combat set of rules is so individual combat can also take place, during attempts of covert assassinations or what not.

Outside influences would also be introduced by the GM to create reasons for players to work together, or to create opportunites for them to take down rivals. These influences could also be used to help boost weaker clans, or weaken stronger ones...depending on the need or lack of need to keep the game balanced or give reasons to spur players into taking actions.

If one is familiar with Menzoberranzan and how the noble houses fight for dominance in the city, that is what I am going for here...except in the setting of the ancient Sith Empire.

 

For that, I think you'll have to have each player run their own clan.

If all players are members of the same clan, the game will be about individuals competing - maybe after a certain amount of time some will form a breakaway clan, but that's by no means a guaranteed thing. If so, it'll still be fun but it's not a strategy game because strategy games are not about individuals competing; they're generally about armies or at least groups.

I think your combat system lends itself quite well to group combat, actually, if you let people concatenate the ranks and powers into stat blocks. Something like:

Clan Awesome:
Acolytes:
Bob
- Telekinesis 2
- Alchemy 1

Tom
- Sorcery 3

Warriors:
Ned
- Sith Lightning 5
- Force Field 4

Then if Clan Awesome attacks another clan (let's call them Clan Badass), the players behind Clan Awesome and Clan Badass can roleplay things out as normal, except they control however many characters you allow rather than just 1.

Make sense? You'd still need to expand the system to handle purchasing (e.g. a speeder bike costs X credits, and conveys Y bonus during combat), earning credits for purchasing, controlling territory and so on... that's the backbone of any strategy game.

 

I'd agree with Xan about small groups/clans of characters being controlled by a single player being ideal - perhaps one such character would be the designated "leader" and main PC while the other characters would be lackeys helping that character ascend to power. Although it also depends on scale - one could easily extrapolate the stat blocks into representing the relative strengths of competing armies, although that's probably (From what I gather in the OP) a bit too large in scope for the game.

Systems for purchasing resources are time consuming to develop and balance, but I suppose that could work. The problem there is that it's hard for me to critique such a system when I'm dealing with vague niceties. Do you have any rough numbers you could give us?

 

Although it also depends on scale - one could easily extrapolate the stat blocks into representing the relative strengths of competing armies, although that's probably (From what I gather in the OP) a bit too large in scope for the game.



That'd be pretty cool, actually. So instead of an individual listing, you'd have teams - so you could have a team of 5 Warriors with 45 points between them with a cumulative power list of (say) 25* Force Lightning, 15 Force Field and 5 Sorcery.

Players could then treat 'teams' as singular blocks for the purposes of combat, much like how one tends to treat a squadron of 12 X-Wings as a singular block in fleet battles.

That's, again, if you want to totally abstract away individual-based combat. I think a game of simmering clan infighting could still be fun - it's just not a strategy game.


*The maximum possible for a team of 5, as it's 5 points maximum per power.

 

Hey all, just here to say I'd like to be added to the queue!

 

I'm late, but...

Much of what was said about Sinre's system applies to this one as well. It's just numbers for the sake of numbers especially for the Sorcery and Alchemy stuff, which was pretty much "I don't know. Do a thing. See what happens." Though you have scaling, much of is linear, which doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, especially for telekinesis, since there are orders of magnitude in difference between examples of power in-universe. Meanwhile, Force Lightning is poorly defined in terms of effects, poorly scaled (I don't think Palpatine thinks "six guys! I'm boned!") and suffers from a weird fluctuating curve where it's almost useless at 1 rank, and completely unblockable at 5 ranks (since the defensive power must exceed the offensive power in rank to block it, and you can't put more than 5 ranks in a power, meaning it's a tie and goes to the attacker). Really, none of this seems like it couldn't have been better left to the GM's discretion instead of needed another homebrew paperweight. I'm not blaming you specifically, game design is hard work and you can pay a big team of smart people lots of money and still get something that has problems galore, but it helps to at least try to figure out why you want a numerical system to begin with, what you want it to do and then see if it meets your goals. Vestigial game systems help no one.

 

Okay, TSG asked for a later place. So, this is our current list . . .


Despised1 - Current discussion
TheDarkOverlord - Unnamed Zombie RPG
BobaMatt - Unknown Project
TheSithGIrly - Unknown Game

 

I think there is a general point to such games. It is that they can be done two ways.

Number One is simple. You judge and probably mostly upon the skills as writers the RPers have and decide therefore for the outcome. Like the tournament did. If that´s what happens, it is fine. Those players submitting, will know what they get themselves into.

Number Two is you do a system of stats and use a random element. A dice or a coin for exmaple. If so you´re pretty close to table-top. Or strategy games and a look at the rules of "Risk" or "Axis&Allies" might be worth it . . .

I think if a strategic element is added now, it needs to determine what you consider is your way to do it. And from there the way should be worked out in detail.

 

So, i think the discussion has died down for now. Let´s move to the next game and revisit this one later, perhaps. It might actually be a good game for communal game creation, I´d say. that topic came up a few times. Until then . . .

A zombie game by TDO.

 

[I think this is my third draft]


[image=http://www.insidesocal.com/techout/assets_c/2009/05/duke-thumb-480x357.jpg]

It?s the year whatever, some say it?s 1989 but who cares? Who keeps count? Ever since Z-Day it?s been hell.
Who am I? You really want to know? Well if you must..
Before Z-Day I was your every day Joe at the office. I was a programmer back then but you wouldn?t believe the stuff I have done since then. Flown helicopters, blown up cars, killed walking moaning dead people. Yeah, you get the picture. So.. what happened to me?
In a way, Z-Day forced me to be the guy I always wanted to be.. Awesome, you can call me Cpt. Awesome!
Now listen up recruits, it?s a hard world out there and it?s damn hungry! It's a miracle that these cryostasis machines worked! Heh, I even placed a bet that you guys would wake up as one of them!
Anyway, now you are here and you are wondering what in the name of pick your god has happened?
Well some ten years ago the first outbreak was reported somewhere in Nebraska, go figure huh. In the middle of nowhere. Pretty soon the whole country was run over by the zo-

[a moaning is heard behind you and as you turn, you see a vicious face]
[image=http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/original/zombie.jpg]
[Cpt. Awesome shoots the thing in the head, it explodes in blood and gore and the lump of a body falls down to the ground. You stand chocked at the sight]

Yep, that was one of them. First and most important rule, hit them in the head! Head equals dead you follow?!
Second rule, start loosing some weight because stamina might just save your pretty be-hind one day.
Third, stay out of malls and ?abandoned? military places.
Fourth, if you have a comedian in your group he will be the first to go.
Fifth, if they chew on you, you have about three to twenty-four hours before you turn into one of them. My suggestion? Jump of a bridge.
Sixth, no.. This is not a joke.

You wake up from a government funded cryostasis into a world that does not look as it did before!
Welcome to the Apocalypse where the dead walk again! You play as one of the few survivors against the hordes of undead. It?s all about fun and playing as the stereotypes we find in the movies!
And action, oooh all about the action baby! The cooler things you do, the more rewards you will get!


Wait.. why did they freeze you again?

[image=http://alvin1.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/i-am-legend.jpg]

So the usual rules, stole a bit from fin
1. The GM word is the final word.
2. PM me your character sheets.
3. OOC is allowed coming with posts or declaring absence.
5. Respect your fellow players. Godmodding and any kind of hostility is strongly forbidden.
6. PM me any question you might have
7. Enjoy the ride
8. This is the most important rule of them all.. Don?t EVER, EVER and I mean absolutely EVER NEVER EVER mention the Z-Word, IC or OOC or I WILL boot you from the game faster than you can eye poke one of them with a ten foot pole!

Limited to four players from start.

Character Sheet
Name:
Age:
Appearance:
Career:
Bio:
- Why do you believe they chose to freeze you?
Starting gear: (Do not fill this one out! I will randomly select stuff from a list I have to give you!)


Pick one of the following careers (there may not be two players with the same career). They act as guidelines as to what your character did before the Zom.. Apocalypse.

Character Careers:
Car mechanic
Flight attendant
Rugby Player
Cook
Bus Driver
Computer Game Designer
Golf Player
McDonalds Worker
Cable Guy
Long Distance Runner
Unemployed Movie Fanatic
Maid
Rock Star
Just-got-out-of-jail small time crook
US Army Drill Sergeant
Ambulance driver
UFO 'Expert'

----

My idea is to have four players playing in this world and invite guest players to play other 'expendable' characters if you will, characters that has pieces of information that might drive the overall plot forward (ah I have a plot!) or pummel the players to their death!

So.. what do you think?

 

... Alright, I'll bite: why can't we say Zombies?


Some other concerns:

(1) What's the game's name?

(2) Spelling: it should be 'start losing some weight' (single o), and I'm not sure what you mean by 'You stand chocked' - choked? Shocked?

(3) Most of the careers you listed are - and I mean no offence to anyone who works as any of those - pretty mundane things. Why would the government choose to spend a (presumably) large amount of money on putting an unemployed movie fanatic or a small-time crook into cryostasis? Why wouldn't they freeze top scientists, soldiers, politicians and so on instead? If it's so cheap that they can do it for anyone, why weren't more people frozen? Or is there a deeper reason - genetic immunity to the Zombie Virus, say?

You seem to be implying that it's one of those things your players are to figure out, but it feels like a logical fallacy.


Beyond that, it's a zombie apocalypse game. I'm not a huge fan of the genre in general. *shrug*

 

because, except for Zombieland people in Zombie movies doesn't mention the word Zombies, it's like an unwritten rule. Just check out Shaun of they Dead the imply that all the time



1) No idea yet, I have a couple of ideas but nothing final.. It needs to stay true with the Zombie style like 'Dawn of the Dead'.. I dunno yet

2) Ah damn, thought I spell checked it before posting.. sorry

3) Well I wanted to move away from hardcore military/cops kicking ass and more into 'mundane' characters. Mostly because I want players to be forced to tackle the zombies in a different way than say for example Resident Evil style (spec ops running and gunning). It's a gamble I guess but I'll stick with it.

And yeah, why did 'someone' freeze few guys/girls? But it doesn't say anywhere that someone didn't freeze politicians and scientists either
But you are right I should rewrite that part to make it more intriguing and make more sense.

thx for the input, much appreciated

And I can't help you if you don't like zombie apocalypses

 

Spell checking isn't going to catch things if they're real words that have been spelled accidentally while trying to spell other words.

That's a contradiction. If you want it to be mundane rather than military, why is the military freezing these people? Clearly they can't be as mundane as they appear, or if they are it doesn't make sense. I think Xan's saying that as a choice, it needs to be justified.

 

Alternatively just lampshade it once and never address it again. IMO a zombie apocalypse game shouldn't really be too concerned with military/government conspiracies or the particular reasoning behind the survivors. A simple "Weird that they chose us, oh well," will suffice if the issue never gets brought back up.

If it's going to get brought up again, then, like Matt and Xan pointed out, you're going to need a more plausible explanation.

 

No - if it's going to be weird, then it implies it'll get brought up again. Otherwise the cryogenic freezing doesn't actually seem like it'll be necessary at all.

 

Yes, especially since they're waking people up from stasis while the zombies are still roaming about. What was the point of freezing them in the first place, if the world they face is just as dangerous?

 

I think I understand the issue you guys are trying to point out. I'll remove, or rewrite it to make more sense. If it stays it needs a background that makes more sense.

thx

 

[image=http://clashofthetitans.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/zoolander.jpg]

"But why male models?"

I couldn't resist.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't even bother mentioning why these people have been chosen. It seems unnecessary to me and if done poorly becomes a flawed MacGuffin.

 

So, a Zombie game.

Well, I am fine with no mentioning of the word Zombie. It actually is a tradition. I also dig the humor approach. If you don´t make Zombies DAMNED scary and bloody (which PG-14 doesn´t go well with) it is the right road to go. Thrills and laughs. And laughs and thrills. And a game for the comedians among us to play in. Good thing. Good. Good. Thing.

So, it is up for discussion so I will make some suggestions, despite the fact I like it some things I would change.

1. Get rid of the freezing. Too vmuch of a plot device. Have everybody survive up to this point and meet each other in the first scene. Every player can come up with how he made himself. Not necessary realistic ways, but funny ones. Unusualy ones. That kind of stuff.

2. Pictures. There are good other pictures of empty streets than I am Legend. It irritatess me that the name of another game is in that . . .

[image=http://wall.alphacoders.com/images/100/10038.jpg] [image=http://www.juegos.tv/blogjuegos/wp-content/uploads/zombie-apocalypse.jpg] [image=http://lostmoya.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/postapocalyptic-ruins.jpg] or my favourite: [image=http://wall.alphacoders.com/images/337/33746.jpg]

3. Some purpose to players, something interesting to go for . . . might be good. If it is funny, there must be hope or black humor in it. An evacuation point? A safe colony? A cure?? Something like that might be good.

4. Music. Adda link. It makes the whole thing appear more . . . vivid. And I think it´s a game SCREAMING for a cool soundtrack.