RPR Archive The Game Designers Guild

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource Archive' started by Imperial_Hammer, Apr 8, 2006.

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  1. The Great No One Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    ok chuckles... got a couple comments for you.

    it's a really good concept. i like it. i would and probably will play it. however, the OP is just too danged long. there's a couple things you could do for this, and yes i realize the feel you're going for but sometimes going for a certain feel when it creates something like this is a detriment instead of a bonus.

    idea 1. you cut out the past section of this post and put it in the introduction thread, that way people who don't look in here get a taste for it. cuts the whole length down a bit, and make sit more likely people'll actually read the whole thing.

    idea 2. similar to idea one, you put both of the past and present in the intro thread and have a shorter oral history account in the actual OP.

    idea 3. you just rewrite the whole thing as an oral history, as though it's someone trying to entertain people around a campfire with a tale of their past. honestly, i like this idea the most, because it fixes the biggest problem with the style you wrote the history parts in. history books are just dry. it's a simple fact, most historian's do not know how to tell a story. however those who kept them as oral histories were just as accurate and far more interesting.

    i'm not saying what you have there isn't interesting, because it is. it's just that the style you wrote it in is just too dry, and it gives the whole thing kind of a dusty feel to it, which while it lends a since of weight and age to it, does not exactly help you out very much. doing it as an oral history would still lend it that weight and age but would keep it more polished, and would likely make it shorter as well. just my thoughts.

    the rest, what i've read of it so far, is fine from what i can see.
  2. Chukles38 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2005
    star 5
    Hm........ The first two I had considered, but the third one... well... I hadn't. It's a very intriguing idea, and I think I like it. Thank you Trim. :)
  3. The Great No One Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    *bows* you're welcome chuckles
  4. Chukles38 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2005
    star 5
    After much help from trim, I have a second draft that I feel works much better. Any input you may have will be greatly appreciated. :)

    EDIT: Whoops.... forgot the new title. :p

    Around the Campfire

    The young boy?s laugh rang through the camp, his friends soon mimicking him. ?C?mon mate, dragons? Wizards and evil beings? Where do ya hear this rubbish?? The kids continued to laugh, enjoying the crackling fire in front of them. It was a cold and silent night, and they were grateful they had made it to Geoffrey?s Point?a semi-permanent camp that brought travelers from all around the surrounding wilderness. The drinks and warm fires were known to many, and the fact that it was the only semi-civilized place for miles helped business.

    The boys? laughter continued to ring through the camp, but was cut short abruptly by another sound mixing with it. The new laughter was almost menacing. The boys, between the ages of fourteen and eighteen, tried to appear strong, but obviously the sound had unsettled them. As their eyes scanned the surrounding darkness, a whisper drifted to their ears. ?Oh, it is a sad day when the young forsake dragons and magic.?

    The voice itself seemed to carry with it the weight of time though still possessed an almost merry note. More importantly, it drew the gaze of the boys across the fire to a spot they swore was empty a moment ago.

    An old man, the source of the laughter and whisper, now sat warming his hands. His clothes were tattered and travel-worn, though that was hardly unusual in this camp. His beard, grey as soot, extended several inches down his chest. His cap concealed much of his face, though his eyes clearly showed through the shadows. After a long moment, one of the older boys brought himself to speak.

    ?H-hey. Who are you?? A smile crossed the old man?s face.

    ?Merely a traveling bard, warming my hands.?

    ?And?. You, really believe those things? Dragons and the lot?? One of the younger boys inquired of the stranger.

    A broad and magical smile crossed the old man?s face. He waited a moment, before speaking. ?Yes, I do. Dragons, Vyn?rath, mages; they all existed? and still do.?

    ?Vyn?rath?? one boy asked.

    ?Indeed.? The bard answered, nodding. ?Beings created at the last battle of the Draconic Wars. The last Mages of Alanvar sealed the dragons away inside them, and they and their children could transfigure themselves into dragons.? The boys gasped in astonishment. Few knew of the Vyn?rath.

    ?Could? could you tell us a story, if you?re a bard, and all?? One of the young boys asked.

    The bard, laughing openly now, cast a gentle smile on the young one. ?I shall do better. Stories are based in imagination, concocted by crazy old men like myself for the entertainment of others. No, I will tell you of your history. I will tell not what may have happened, but what did. Do you still wish to hear?? The boys nodded nervously but eagerly, not sure what to expect.

    When the bard spoke, his voice took on a different quality, no longer that of the strange old man, but seemingly the voice of time itself. It was captivating, and soon even other travelers were gathering around the large fire to hear the old man?s story.

    ?Come, gather closer. Hear my tale.
    Warm your cold hands while I humbly regale.
    A story of dragons, mages, and kings,
    Listen as I tell the most marvelous things
    Of rebellions, Vyn?rath, love, and ire,
    And it all began, as tonight, around the campfire??


    The World is at war. The once wise Mages of Alanvar have usurped control of the government from the rightful king. Over fifty years they have cemented their rule, taking control of the mightiest armies of the world. The Vyn?rath, once protectors of the common people, were annihilated by the Council of Mages.

    While average people are just becoming aware of the state of things, there are many who have already banded together in rebellion. You, as a player, are caught up in all this, whether as one of the few remaining Vyn?rath, a member of the rebellion, a farmer, or even a low ranking mage in
  5. blubeast1237 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 5
    I like the set up, but the only thing is that some of the information in the OP is common sense or could be told in Pms.

    Either way, it doesn't really matter. People are going to love the game, regardless of the OP. It's a great concept and I've been meaning to play a mage for some time.

  6. Chukles38 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2005
    star 5
    Is there anything in particular that you think should be cut out? I'm always open for suggestions.

    And, i'd be glad to have you in the game.
  7. blubeast1237 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 5
    I expect all posts afterward to blindly talk about my game.


    The Looney Band or How I Escaped from My Mental Institution

    "You're crazy."

    "No, I'm not. But then again, a crazy person would deny it, wouldn't they?"

    The inmate chuckled to himself.

    "You know, we've always wondered about you. You are quite powerful in the Force, but you- STOP LAUGHING!"

    The laughing continued, even grew louder.

    An exasperated breath. "But you have never tried to escape. Not in 10 years. Why not?"

    The laughter stopped.

    "The Force put me in here. It abandoned me. So I abandoned it."

    "Oh please. The Jedi are supposed to be good."

    "I am good." A smile.

    "Killing a room of politicians without motivation and then slaughtering countless officers is crazy. You're in here for life. That means until you die."

    "Silly man. One can never die. Only become one with the Force, Master Yoda would say."

    "Yeah, well in here, there is no Master Yoda, just you and other crazies."

    "So, I'm crazy. What are you going to do about it?"

    "Ha, so you admit you're crazy!?"

    "Well, sir, if you think I'm crazy and you're trying to get me to confess to being crazy, doesn't that make you crazy?"

    "Shut up. Get him outta here!"

    "Yes, sir, get me outta here, get me outta here. Because that's all you can do. I killed more than a hundred people and all you can do is take me away! HAHAHAHAHAHA!"

    The laughter continued as he was led out of the hallway and put back in his room. It continued throughout the night, and then all the next day. Two guards discussed the nature of the inmate.

    "How does he do it?"

    "Do what?"

    "Laugh like that. For days."

    "That's what he does."


    If the above piece does not make sense to you, it probably wont ever. Welcome to the Looney Band! You are a Force User who has been put into the Mental Institution for the Corrupt Gifted, where there are millions of ways in and one way out! Because of the crime and/or the state of your mind, you have been put here by the Jedi to evaluate your mind, see if there are any hopes for rehabilitation, or just to keep you away from everybody else!

    Characters are you. And you are the inmates!

    Medical Profile

    Crime: (This is just why are you hear. Not everyone is a crazed mass murderer, some are just unstable.)
    Bio: (This can be as crazy as you want it, since no one will believe you anyway)



    -Keep OOCs to a minimum
    -No God-Modding
    -PM Profiles to GM for Approval
    -Obey the TOS

  8. Rev Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2005
    star 2
    I would like to submit my name for membership in this guild. I designed the [link=http://boards.theforce.net/role_playing_forum/b10328/30076572/p1/?82]Knights of the Old Republic III[/link] game a few weeks back.
  9. Sarge221 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2006
    star 5
    Oh look...a game idea from me [face_whistling]


    You know what naivety is? I hear it every day. ?Jacen Solo, the great enemy of galactic peace. A fallen Jedi, a tyrant, a modern Vader and Palpatine.?

    What a laugh.

    You know what naivety is? I see it every day. At every checkup. When a new doctor comes in and can only stare in disbelief at my sorry state. The permanent rashes, the shakes and twitches, and oh yes my left ear. I lost that one to an acid jet that ate away at the cartilage. How did that happen? It was the same thing that had a much easier time sticking one of those blasted needles into my exposed ear canal and making sure I never hear again.

    An IT-0 interrogation droid. I had been one of those unlucky ones to have such a machination of pure evil that was built for such torture to float into my cell.

    These days people see the Imperial Remnant for what it really is: a remnant. A shadow of a former glory run by children who want what had not belonged to them in the first place but rather their daddies and granddaddies?.

    The naivety of peace.

    I was there before it all started. Before Mothma, Ackbar, Organa, Skywalker, before a Rebellion. I was part of one of those small, scattered resistances that first stood up to the Galactic Empire. It wasn?t like the Corellians when they started to make trouble though. We had no fleet, no allies supplying us with warheads or any other good equipment. Just a couple blasters and scrap heaps for ships?if even that.

    And don?t you start making cracks about what the Empire had. Those TIE Fighters that you call ?cheap flying coffins? had been able to top whatever we managed to scrape up. No shields perhaps, but that maneuverability and killing power couldn?t be matched by any of those old V-Wings and Z-95s. The fact that there were so many of them didn?t help at all either. And those ?plastic soldiers? that couldn?t even beat a bunch of fur balls with spears were the last things you wanted to see knocking on your door.

    And unlike the Corellians, it wasn?t just some kind of GAG that we had to worry about. You know what else the Empire had? ISB, all of COMPNOR, the 501st, Inquisitors, and let?s not forget about those secret extermination ships. The Empire didn?t need that mistake called the Death Star, let me tell you. The shakes really get to me when I think of that day when stormtroopers came bursting through our door. We didn?t stand a chance, only lasting a minute before we were all either dead or captured.

    I only lasted two days when the droid came for me. I?m not going to act tough. I cried and screamed like a baby, begging for them to stop and it was only when I told them what they wanted that they finally did. I was a dead man when I broke, I knew that. They had broken hundreds ? perhaps thousands ? of not only men but women on a daily basis. And once they got what they wanted they?d either shoot you themselves or let the droid give you one last treatment. Sometimes I still wish they did. It was only ten hours later that they came, newly minted troops of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. Amidst the shame that I felt at betraying my own, there was finally hope that came with those troopers that sprung us all.

    But before that hope, before the Alliance finally got the real rebellion started up, I was able to see, within the darkness of that cell, how?futile it all was. To fight against not the Remnant that you see today but
    the Galactic Empire.


    The Setting
    Before the Galactic Alliance, before the New Republic, before even the Rebellion, there were those that still fought against the Galactic Empire. Not as coordinated, not as well funded or as well armed, but rebels nonetheless. The year is 2 BBY. With the signing of the Corellian Treaty, the Alliance to Restore the Republic has come to fruition and it is this new faction that now declares war on the
  10. blubeast1237 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 5

    Let me start by saying the opening statement is cool and lets you know that at least not all people were able to get away from the Empire. People did break, and I like that.

    Storyline wise, its very broad, and since you are asking for Rebels and Imperials to begin with, I think you need to reel in the broadness of it. You mention there is a rebellion before THE Rebellion, but its only by comparison. Its like if I told you there was a place between North America and South America, but didn't say Mexico. Too Broad. Let us know what these people actually do.

    Another problem is the characters. Set a number that you want of Rebels and Imperials before you start letting other factions in. Like 2 for each side and then you will allow bounty hunters and pirates. However, since you say you want a medium sized game, I would assume that you mean around 5-7 people, which means that allowing 2 players for each side, Empire/Rebel, then allowing 2 other players is your best option. Thisis, of course, if you are looking for a small game.

    Title wise, that has to be completely up to you. Suggestions:

    -Age of Rebels
    -Crackdown: When the Empire was Feared
    -Legion of Losers
    -Small Rebel, Big Empire

    Something like that.

  11. Sarge221 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2006
    star 5
    I do know that, currently, the game is definitely a bit broad :p I'll be making sure to deal with that in the final version which would probably just end up with me putting in one or two small factions in there, give a little background information of who they are, where they're mostly active, what their tactics are, and let players decide for themselves which they want. Closing off pirates and smugglers altogether and waiting to see what I get for Imperials and rebels is a thought which I'll consider.

    Like I said, at the moment this is only a draft and there's a lot of other things that I need to approach; even the CS has the chance of being completely changed in the final version. Allowing Force sensitives is another one that has come to mind. Inquisitors are, of course, going to be Force sensitive but allowing anyone other then them to be Force sensitive is a question I'll have to deal with. Especially since I don't plan on having any Jedi in this game so at the moment I doubt anyone will be able to train to become as powerful as one if they are sensitive. Maybe something that'll make them a target of an Inquisitor but I dunno...

    *scratches head* There's a lot that still needs to be done and any criticism or advice I get here will help :p
  12. BobaMatt TFN EU Staff

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah, I got the sense that it was broad, but I definitely agree with your angle: see where the interest is and what characters you get, and narrow things that way, with plot bunnies falling appropriately. In fact, I'd advise you to have people tweak their CSes, if possible, to fit with emerging trends and schemes - if you get two pirates, why not have them be members of the same crew, for example. If you get two Imperials, station them together.
  13. Kev-Mas_Colcha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    I may want to join this game. It would be a perfect opportunity to Role Play Kev-Mas Colcha as an Emperor's Shadow Guard. :D
  14. blubeast1237 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 5
    Hmm, force sensitives. Well to be honest, it would actually be more intimidating and entertaining if the group had to combat Inquisitors who were Force sensitive, but the rest of the characters be normal. As in, the people who want to be Force Sensitive will be Inquisitors and the people who don't can be either a stormtrooper with the INquisitor or part of the rebel group. What's the point of having someone be a Rebel Force user if they are not going to be able to compare to an expert Force User? Seems pointless.

    My two cents.

  15. Sarge221 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2006
    star 5
    Hm...from what I've been able to think of today - which wasn't much thanks to dealing with 64 kids and that nice nap after :p - here's what I have so far when it comes to characters.

    For one is the factions. We will have the Empire of course, and I've already gotten caps established on certain kinds of characters. For the Inquisitors there will be a two man cap so only two people will be able to play as them. However, Colcha did mention the Shadow Guard - which I had completely forgotten about - so if he or anyone else wishes they can be a Shadow Guard. The Shadow Guard does count towards the Inquisitor cap though; if one guy becomes a Shadow Guard, then only one other person can be an Inquisitor. I will say that two Shadow Guard will not be allowed. There will be a cap for starship captains as well for the Empire and that is a one man cap. Troopers, pilots, and whatever else currently do not have caps.

    Moving on to neutral characters such as bounty hunters and smugglers. Despite the popularity of bounty hunters, currently there will be no spots. With the Inquisitor and Shadow Guard, starship captain, and whatever troopers and pilots the Empire is gonna get to hunt down rebels, adding another kind of character that'll basically do the same thing is a bit unnecessary. I will allow smugglers though...which have already been taken. Two people have called for those spots and thus I won't allow anymore.

    Moving on to rebels. I am honestly not totally sure about what to do for the rebels. Having mentioned the idea for pirates, I think I may just throw them in as one of the two small rebel factions that I'll create for players to join. The pirates will be the faction that does more space-related engagements and plundering while the other faction will focus on land skirmishes and bombings. Course I will give them a chance to do the opposite - have pirates attack ground targets and give the rebels a chance to strike out in space - if I can come up with good scenarios. I will allow one or two rebels/pirates to be Force-sensitive though. They may not be as strong as Inquisitors or Shadow Guard but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have someone with the occasional "bad feeling" become an extra warning system in the group whenever danger's about to hit.

    This is pretty much all I got so far and none of which is set in stone. Depending on certain factors - such as number of participants, the majority of people's opinions, etc. - anything can change. I may raise the Inquisitor/Shadow Guard cap to three, may allow bounty hunters, take out Force-sensitives, whatever. I'm probably going to get started on a list soon to see how many would be interested to play the game and get a decision from them as to what they want to play just to see what kind of response I should expect. So...back to thinking and listening to more advice :p
  16. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 8
    *tries to think what Garen Kya is doing at this moment*

    He's... a disgraced Imperial politician and sitting on Naboo with his family, entertaining Imperials and looking at the war as a moment where he has to go from being a failure to someone who can and thus should do his bit for the Empire. So he'd be an uber fresh TIE pilot, after having months of no contact with his very angry wife.

    I'm in if wanted. :cool:
  17. DarkLordoftheFins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    So, my take on the concept . . . a Rebellion game. That is actually so little done I feel the need to see this out there.

    There are some things I would like to see. Personal taste.

    1. Hook

    You know everybody twice around here, so I guess you won´t have any prob recruiting players but actually it is easier if you include some sort of story-hook no matter how unimportant it is or will be . . . a single event that leads into the game . . .

    After the Rebels have captured the imperial ship ??? the Emperor has ordered the responsible to be found and destroyed. Meanwhile the Rebellion start to think of how to make good use of their newest asset . . .

    Something like this. So players have an idea what it will be about.

    2. The Force

    My experience is whenever you have these guys around, they take center stage sooner or later. It´s the nature of those "using the force". So if you wanna have them, be aware of that. An Imperial Inquisitor and a force-sensitive rebel could make an interesting story, though. We could finally see how the Empire has seeked them out and turned or destroyed them . . . just make sure no Jedi will turn up. With the hundreds of leftovers this is always a temptation.

    3. Military or Social

    What will it be? Shall we see how both sides work and get a feel for their "system" or will it be more like a chain of events leading to certain results? Also, where will this all happen? A limited space or all over the galaxy? A planet in it´s center of planet-hopping?

    All in all it is a sound idea, but it needs to become more specific. I alwys suggest that, because they help me so much . . . so sorry if I am already annyoing you guys . . . but a story-advisor, therefore someone to define the story with, might be good.
  18. Sarge221 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2006
    star 5
    Recruitment hasn't been that much of a problem I will admit :p I got two confirmed smugglers, I got the Imperial starship captain (who will most likely be commanding a Vic-2 Star Destroyer), a sadistic stormtrooper, and if Colcha and Sinrebirth are interested in pursuing their own ideas I'll be having a Shadow Guard and TIE pilot.

    The Imperials are filling up pretty fast, the only problem at the moment is that I'm seeing a lack of rebels/pirates. Currently the number I have for them is....zero :p Gives me a nice picture of the more veteran RPers being set up as the Imperials and anyone else can dare to challenge them as the rebels [face_laugh]

    The Force - and thus users of it - do tend to take center stage. I am actually thinking that this may not be too much of a problem in my game as, currently, there just really isn't that much of a conflict where the Force is involved. Jedi are wiped out, Palpatine's just focused on securing his Empire for the coming fight against a Rebellion that he inadvertently created, and all in all you got a conflict that is more of a...mortal conflict where one group of rebels want to wipe out an Empire that in turn wants to wipe them out. There just happens to be Force-users involved :p We'll see how that goes.

    And there is a lot that still needs to be done. Despite a few ideas that have popped up, surprises that I'm putting in storage to use, fleshing out the pirates/rebels a bit more, the game is still indeed a bit broad. With a bit more prep work I hope everything will be able to come together :D
  19. DarkLordoftheFins Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    Actually I have given it a little more thought . . .

    Concerning Force-Users . . . there is a type of force-user of old that is forgotten these days. The Rebel who believes in the ideals of old and discovers the force, trying to figure out as much about being a Jedi as he can and . . . there the story goes. Before the Prequels that was basically THE way to play rebel-Jedi. Corwin Shelway is a prime example of it. Look into it, if you don´t want to throw ´em out.

    Concerning Rebels . . . well, I think some players will join the rebellion. If I become part of it (depends on when you start it and how many of my games I am in now survive) I would certainly play a Rebel. I think some of the Panzers have Rebelchars in that age.

  20. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    I was sold before I got to The Setting. [face_hypnotized]


    The setting is a bit broad yes, but that can be handled ingame easily. I do think you might have a problem with power imbalance with the Inquisitors and Shadow Guards ... I'm just thinking back to the OT days, when Darth Vader and the Emperor were so scary because they were the only ones who could do what they could, and if there's nobody to stop them ... but as Fins said, perhaps there could be people playing rebel-Jedi too. The Luke on the Rebel side to balance out the Vader with the Empire, if that makes sense.

    edit - Also, kudos for making a 2 BBY game! OT era is awesome. :D
  21. Ramza Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    Already told you about my idea for an Imperial officer, so I'll focus on what strikes me the most, namely, the rules. They need some more pop, especially rules 6 and 7 which are two that aren't usually assumed by players. Not to mention I think they could use a little in-game flavor. Rules sections never get the love they deserve.

    On that note, rule 1: Obey the TOS. Really? I mean, don't I have to do that for every post anyway? That rule continues to strike me as redundant, not just in your game, but in every game (With a few exceptions).
  22. Sarge221 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2006
    star 5
    Someone gave me a rules scheme that, after a few changes added to it, I threw in just so I could finish the rough draft and post it in here [face_laugh] But yes, even the rules will be changed once this gets to the final version.

    I think what I want with this game IS a power imbalance. Or at least in the beginning anyway. With all the games and fiction that likes to mock and point out all the flaws within the Empire (plastic soldiers beaten with spears, shieldless fighters, how it completely crumbles after the second superweapon that they made despite the failure of the first, etc.) I'm going to start off with the Empire seeming to be the unstoppable machine that it seemed to be so long ago. Not all will be lost of course as the rebels will probably be having some help as the game goes on.

    I think I've glanced at Corwin before but I'll take another look to see what I can use from his example. Currently, however, I'm not expecting Jedi to come to the playing field but we'll see. A nice little nudge for those Force-sensitives to have a better chance against the Shadow Guard and Inquisitors wouldn't hurt I suppose. Once again, we'll see.

    On another note, I got one or two rebels to add to the list :D
  23. Seremela Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2008
    star 3
    Oh, that would be great, a game in the timescope of the movies and you picked a very dark time :D I have to admit that all the ABY has me confused, since I hardly know any EU books.

    Of course there's EU books for the time period of the movies as well. Apprentices, Emperor's hands, inquisitors, shadow guards??? [face_worried]

  24. blubeast1237 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 5
    No. Sarge, the rules are fine. The deserve no love.

    I used 7 in a game a long time ago and people loved it, so I thin they are exceptional. Alot of GMs respond to rule breaking by reprimand, this way, a lost of a limb and there being a lack in prosthetics is fun.[face_skull]

  25. Ramza Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    You will quickly learn to love this site: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

    Blu, that's the kind of attitude that I think needs some reexamining. The rules aren't just a dump section, they're still a part of the OP. While they should be clear cut, that doesn't mean they don't need some flair and an ability to stand out.

    Not to mention "Obey the TOS" and I are going to come to blows soon.:p
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