1. Oh hai Guest!

    Welcome to the RPF!

RPR Archive The Game Designers Guild

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource Archive' started by Imperial_Hammer, Apr 8, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Winged_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I agree with LordT on 'perfection added to success'. Finishing a game is what you should strive for, it's the icing on the cake and it's very, very satisfying. But I don't think it's a failure to come up short of that.

    I think we should also note that there are, of course, degrees of success. To take the two examples Xan mentioned, if a A Breaking World and A Tide of Flames were both to finish tomorrow, then yes, they might both be considered successful. But ABW would be considered a moderate success that didn't really reach its potential. AToF, on the other hand, would be considered an enormous, inspirational success- after 100 pages, who could argue otherwise?

    As for the 50 posts threshold, LordT makes a good point about the relative size of games, but I agree with Xany that for the average game (probably 4-6 players? We'll need to work this out one day) 50 posts is a decent bottom margin.
  2. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    Don't tempt me ... :oops:

    Yeah, I was referring to games with around 10 players or under, not the ones with 30+ characters in them, as those are few and far between. For that game, you'd need far more than 50 posts before you can consider it successful - although I suppose there is some measure of success in the fact that Sinre got 30+ characters signed up in the first place for 129 ABY.
  3. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    250 posts.

    That is the golden minimum in my opinion.

    You can get 50 posts or so just on an exciting opening

    You can get to 150 posts in a short enthusiastic burst

    But to get 250 means you not only launched successfully but you had some longevity to you as well.

    Time for the rocks to come my way... :p

    Can I throw some too? O:)

    Rocks to Fins: Bah, you and your game finishing love. Insert my philosophical talk about the value of the journey vs. the destination, purposefully designing infinite games, etc. etc. ;)

    Rocks to Xan: And how do you quantify fun Ms. Numbers? :p If you want a reliable concrete measure, it doesn't come any better than posts.

    50 posts is too small in my opinion. That rule was put in as a nod to the short game strategy. Minimum for awards =/= minimum for a good game IMO.

    Rocks to LordT: I'm digging your standard better than the other two, as I think player numbers are indeed an important variable to consider. Thats why I set my standard of evaluation much higher than most others here. That way it doesn't matter how much you have! I think your point on staying power is well put, and I would argue that if you have that, 250 still is an easy goal to hit, even with 4 players. 63 posts a player can be hit when you have that power. Give it a year or so and you've got it made

    Rocks to Winged: Yay to you and Fins on shared opinions about finishing. I also agree with degrees of success after the minimum thresh-hold of 250. The closer you get to 250,the closer you are to success, and the further away you get from it, the more successful it was. :)

    A last round of rocks to Xan: Exactly yes on the idea of a large launch benefit. 250 will more easily be reached in a big game than a small game. But that is most certainly a testament of the GM's skill in crafting a game, recruiting, and shepherding it to 250 (with which, even for a large game this takes some effort).

    [image=http://www.mahvin.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/rocks2.jpg]

    Weeeeeee

    :p

    -I_H
  4. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    I think there's something to be said for having an ending. While it's true that often the journey is the more interesting part of any tale, the definitive capstone, wherein the party finally discovers the fruits of their labors, is just as important in the context of roleplaying (Though, I should note, not to story telling in general).

    A good ending gives players a sense that all their journeys, all their trials, and all their character development has reached its zenith. Some plot threads can stay unresolved (Particularly given a series or franchise, or a game aiming for a more open-ended interpretation of events), but it's that crowning moment of awesome where one, two, or even five years later your players can look back and say "Remember how X ended? That was freaking spectacular." A good plot twist can also be entertaining, but unlike certain M. Night Shayamalon movies, probably shouldn't just come out of nowhere.

    Conversely, a bad ending can sour everyone's memory of the entire game. I'm reminded of a story that was recounted in the excellent (Though now defunct) podcast Starting Now.

    These players were playing in an alternative game (By tabletop standards, anyway), where the world was slowly deteriorating, and the party journeyed across the globe gathering components for the spell that would repair it. And so, once a week, for two years these guys got together and played this campaign, slowly accumulating all of the components. Then, at last, they prepare the spell, say the words, and, I quote: "The world doesn't move."

    How pathetic is that? A two year build up for bupkis. That's a bad ending, but it's also a case for endings in general. If you put time and effort into something, you want to see that culminate into something grand, not to piddle out and die as everyone slowly drifts on to other things.

    Also, since I know it's coming, I like my rocks the way I like my eggs: Hard.:p
  5. Winged_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    [face_laugh] I love that ending! Sometimes I enjoy a good old fashioned anti-climax. :p That's the kind of situation where the players have no choice but to look at each other and think: it was never about this, really. It was always the journey.
  6. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    The other, more pessimistic interpretation, which one of the hosts brought up, was that it becomes a catch phrase for when things go badly. "Well, then, I guess the world doesn't move." Which is certainly a type of... em, infamy...:p
  7. LordTroepfchen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2007
    star 4
    Finishing a game is not ending a story. As a side note.

    It is pretty much the contrary.
  8. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    Bah @ Imp. Just ... bah. :p

    Ramza - LOL, SoNL better not end that way. We're on to you now! :p

    LordT - But it is an ending, or at least should be. If the characters don't die there's room for a sequel, but that particular story - the story in the game - should be over.
  9. DarkLordoftheFins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    I think what LordT means, that you can finish a game in many ways . . . lock it. Abandon it. Ignore it. Just declare it over. Ending it means you bring your story, as far as you have one . . . to an end. Close the dramatic bow. It makes the whole thing a journey. Instead of an aimless wandering around ;)
  10. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    How can I have an anticlimax when I'm skewering DnD tropes? If anything, I'm practically required to have an epic boss fight of epic... epicness.:p Not to mention I loves me some Ominous Latin Chanting.

    And, going off of Fins' interpretation, I'd have to agree with LordT, they're not the same in the least bit. And while I'm not one to talk about not locking a game before its finished, I can certainly say that I appreciate, as a player, the sense of closure that comes with a proper ending. Even if it's a Kill Em All or an epic anticlimax, some kind of capstone is optimal.
  11. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Alright friends, exciting news!

    This thread is ending immediately!

    As per the RPR's Guild Revamp Project, the GDG will be moving to The Game Designer's Group starting now. :)

    A round of applause for everyone that worked to bring this thread to what its been throughout the years. I shall hope that the energy, excitement and creativity that was once graced this thread will be successfully transferred over to our new home. Those who have posted here have successfully contributed towards the creation of a vibrant and exciting RPR, and the community thanks you!

    Excellent work everyone. A job well done!

    =D=

    -I_H
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.