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Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource' started by Winged_Jedi, Jan 18, 2012.

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  1. Lukes_Apprentice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 3
    However you want to do is ok in my opinion but generally speaking make is that a character the character sheet is not so restricting you don't give player a choice which a good thing.
    However, Oh boy your concept is a bit taxing for me, but then again I was never into ship maneuvers and stuff like that. However, I can see that ithe system is detailed which is good and avoids conflicts. However, it does not allow for modified ships [face_sigh]. I really think that would be super cool, but it break the system so that is up to you As others pointed out I do not see this as getting so out of hand you would need help with your GMing. Another thing I would like to say is please check your grammar and spelling (I appreciate it).
  2. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    Where did I mess up on the grammar and spelling? Must go back and look that over...(I am something of a grammar Nazi...so I hate that I might have missed something).

    You can modify the ships. I adopted something that someone else suggested, and made it to where you win battles to get credits to modify your ships. But if you want something other than a stock ship to start with, all you have to do is ask, and I can see what your idea is.

    If it does get out of hand, I'd like the option. But I do see people's points with the GM/Mod thing, so I'm working on a updated version where I run it myself.

    EDIT: Incidentally, I did say that the point system is still in the works. I only have the basic classes hashed out so far, as in the 'Flagship, Cruiser, Destroyer, Frigate, Smaller' system.

    There is still room for modified ships...say you want a Nebulon-B Frigate which would be worth about 120 points normally. But you want to modify it with stronger shields and weapons than normal...that would jump it to 130 or so. The system has room for mods, though we can't go TOO far with it, since we can't start getting ships that are worth (for example) 127 points.

    I'm thinking about breaking it up this way: Every five points per modification. So one mod on a Neb would make it 125 points. Its still a work in progress there.
    Last edited by Skywalker_T-65, Sep 5, 2012
  3. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    Well, with new ideas coming up from this thread, I modded the original idea. Since I don't want to edit the old one and make people dig for it (I'd have to make a post announcing it anyway), I just decided to post it here. And L_A, I went over it with a fine-toothed comb. I didn't see any grammar or spelling errors this time.;) (well, at least beyond the obviously fake words like planet names, or RPF words)
    *********************

    Background:

    It is five months after the Battle of Yavin…the Rebel Alliance has gained its first truly large victory against the Empire. But while this victory has gathered more planets and peoples to its cause, it has also drawn the full wrath of the Empire down on the organization.
    After a futile defense of Yavin, the Rebel Fleet is broken and scattered throughout the Galaxy. All around, the scattered ships and men are being hunted down by a vengeful Darth Vader and the Imperial Navy. With their safe havens dwindling, a brave Admiral starts to gather the far-flung fleet in the Unknown Regions.

    Using the planet of Lehon (Rakata Prime) as a staging point, the scattered Rebel Fleet begins to rebuild. But the Empire is never far behind, and they are determined to exact revenge for the destruction of the Death Star. And through all of this, there are the independent ship captains…Mando’s, Smugglers, pirates, honest working men ™…all of them will have a role to play in the liberation, or continued subjugation, of the Galaxy.

    You are the captain of one of these vessels…whose side are you on?
    *******************
    Game-play:
    I’m planning on doing this as a sort of Intervention writ large, with Empire at War parts tossed in. In other words, like Intervention you are in charge of your ship. Though in this case, it can range from a fighter, to something the size of a Star Destroyer.

    The Empire at War bit comes into the fact that you are running your ship in the greater Galactic Civil War, not just one planet.

    As for actual role-playing…you are playing the Captain of your ship, whatever that ship may be. Anything that you do, the ship does. In the scope of the larger fleets (Rebel, Empire, Independent) you can communicate via IC posts with the other Captains to plan raids or other things like that. Or wild parties on your shore leave…that’s an option too. :p

    The overall goal of this game, is to help your faction in the GCW, and fight your enemies. Depending on how the game goes, this could quickly turn into an Alternate Universe, for example:

    The Rebel Fleet joins with the Independents and gets a swarm of really good players who start hit-and-run attacks on the Empire, whittling them down. Now the Empire is focusing on this group, and possibly ignoring Hoth, neatly sidestepping ESB. This of course means Luke never has the fight on Bespin, which throws ROTJ out the window, so to speak. So we may end up building a new SW Galaxy here…and because of that, ULTIMATE CANON™ doesn’t matter here.

    Character interactions are also important though…talk with the members of your fleet, don’t just go all John Wayne and try and fight by yourself. Get to know your allies, make friends with them, and even talk with the ‘enemy’ every once in a while.

    As for the organization of the game:

    Three Fleets: Empire, Rebel, Independent.

    I will be running all of the fleets myself. Of course, that assumes we get enough of a player base who wants the three fleets. It is simple enough to have the Independent merged with the Rebel/Empire fleets. Like if you play a Mando or Smuggler you can join the Rebel Fleet as those characters. We’ll see how that goes.

    Below me, is the regular population of players, who will make up the core of the game.

    I’m modifying the ship list though, since I decided to bring in the new factions.

    Rebel GM/flagship(me): Victory Class SD

    Empire Flagship: Imperial Class SD

    Independent Flagship: Providence Class Cruiser (assuming we end up with an Indie fleet)
    Regular Player base gets anything and everything smaller than a VSD (or at least weaker). Anything from KOTOR till ANH is up for grabs too…so if you want a KOTOR or TOR era ship, then you can have it.

    Also, to keep from killing off the player base (literally) I will be setting up OC ships to play with for any big battles. While I’ll set them up, the players in the battles can write them, with my approval of what they write. That way we aren’t held up waiting for me to write a LONG BATTLE (tm).

    Now then, for something new I thought up. Obviously this game is going to be a fringe game as it currently sits. So I’m adding onto the RP aspect for those who want more RPing in the game. It is possible to run your character as a member of the larger crews on one of the ships. Say I write in an OC Cruiser in one of the fleets, you can be the tactical officer, or a pilot. You don’t have to run the ship if you don’t want to. That idea is in an effort to get a more varied player base.

    ***************************
    Ship Stats:

    While story telling will be the main aspect of this game (as it should) we need some sort of metric for ship battles, that way we don’t have someone going ‘nah nah! My ship OWNED your ship because I wrote it that way!!!’

    I’m lifting a system from another RP I play, and its point based. Each ship has a certain number of points, and when they get into battle with another ship, the point score decides (generally) who wins. In special cases, it can have a weaker ship win though. As GM, I could make it to where I decide which ships win. But that would be verging on Godmodding territory, so here’s how we’ll do it. If two players get into a battle, with their own OC ships in tow, then those two players will communicate with each other on how they want the battle to go. From there, they can send the idea to me, and I’ll look it over.

    Or, if this is easier (being as this is a work in progress) it can be set up where I don’t get involved unless it turns into a big dispute. That way, the two players can work it out on their own, without me being involved. And they don’t have to PM each other either, TAG’s work well enough too. That will be up to player preference.

    And for how the point system works…here we go with a basic list:

    Star Destroyers/Providence: 450 points

    Cruisers: 300-400 points

    Destroyers: 200-300 points

    Frigates: 100-200 points

    Smaller (gunships, fighters, corvettes): 1-100 points

    The difference in points depends on size. For example a Dreadnaught is a mid-range cruiser, so it would be about 350 points. Whereas a Bulwark is at the high end, and would be closer to 400 points. I’m going to limit the number of the high end ships. That way we don’t have a ton of Bulwarks or other larger ships running around. The player population will decide the number of high-end ships. That I’ll work on once the game actually lifts off.

    And a new idea came up from this thread…getting credits from victorious battles to upgrade your ships. So in this case, I’ll change that idea up slightly. If you win a battle, you get a certain amount of credits that go towards upgrading your ship (better shields, weapons, and so on). But if you get enough, you can jump up in the ship rankings.

    In other words…win enough battles in your Carrack, and you can jump to a Dred or Bulwark.

    And finally…you can get a modded version of your chosen ship, if you so desire. So if you want a Corvette with more powerful shields, or starfighters, ask and I’ll (if it’s approved) adjust the point value.

    That is it…any comments on the modified version?
  4. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
    So, a quick question, just to clearify what I am looking at. Is this meant to be the OP or is it just the concept?
  5. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    That's the concept. I'm not sure if I'm putting the OP in this thread, or making the actual game thread for it.
  6. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
    Erm, this thread is usually used to "test" the op, before doing it in a game thread. So if you put it here you will get input and people will probably point outwhat you can do better. Some real good OP writers hang out here and are ready to help. I know how you think the game sells itself, but seriously, the importance of a good OP can hardly be overstressed. So really, Id say as a first timer, it is good idea to put it here. Okay, I´ll have a long hard look at the concept later then . . .
  7. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    In that case, I'll put the OP up in here too. And I figure that I NEED a good OP to sell the game, which is why I didn't just post the game right away. I know better than to believe the thing will take off just from the concept...the only reason I'm posting it first is so I have it ready to transfer into an OP.
  8. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
    Yeah, sure. I just wanted to clearify it. totally right to speak about concept first in such a high-concept game. Just wanted to ask if you thought that was the OP already . . .
  9. Lukes_Apprentice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2008
    star 3
    So did I erm ops it is just a concept well for being a concept it is not half bad, but as an op it was to wordy for my taste. I'm just saying.
    Last edited by Lukes_Apprentice, Sep 6, 2012
  10. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    Which I realize. I've been looking at other games OP's and have been planning accordingly. I just put the concept up so I know if anything is glaringly wrong with it before I work up the OP/launch the game.
  11. Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    Probably the only main issue with your game idea, Skyguy, is adherance to certain parts of canon. Yes, I know you said it won't follow canon in most areas, but technical details that can't break canon for the sake of the story like that generally shouldn't need to follow that. I'd go ahead and take a look at Wookieepedia, and browse through the different articles about each faction's navy, and even look at specific ships under their alignment details in their infoboxes. For example, the VSD was not used by the Rebellion until after The Battle of Endor when they captured some from the Empire, so they'd be more likely to use a Mon Calamari star cruiser as their flagship before then, such as an MC80 variant. As for the independent flagship, it is fine as a Providence-class, but there are plenty of other more modern ships for the time period that work perfectly for independents. Just look at some of the ships used by the Hutt Cartel, Black Sun, and even Pirate and Smuggling organizations. Also, for both Star Destroyers, you may want to specify if they are either a Mk I or Mk II, as that can make quite a bit of a difference.

    Just saying this, as the usual type of person who would play this type of game is very finicky for technical details like that, and if you do it right, you could make for a blockbuster hit of sorts with that crowd.
  12. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    All you have to do is look at my sig to see why I picked a VSD as my ship Kev.:p

    That being said, I'm not quite as up to date with the EU...but a VSD is a common enough ship (I know that the Corporate Sector had hundreds of the darn things) that I could see the Rebels having some. Or at least someone joining the Rebels having one. And (not up to date or not) I thought the Rebels just didn't have any ISD's until after Endor?

    That being said...if the Rebel's main fleet (at this point) was made up of mostly scavenged ships, then it is reasonable to assume that SOMEONE would have a VSD. It is a big galaxy after all. If it breaks things that much, I could switch to my SECOND favorite ship, the Venator (which even the wook says the Rebels had). The MC-80's are supposed to be somewhat rare, which is why this fringe group I'm making into the Rebel Fleet wouldn't likely have one.

    When I put up the OP I'll specify the SD marks.

    Thanks for the comments.
  13. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    On the other hand, if you're hoping to pick up a technical, finicky crowd like that then the mechanics are, respectfully, woefully inadequate for a full, comprehensive strategic ship-to-ship battle game.

    It's all very easy to say "Just work it out between yourselves and I'll intervene if there's a problem", but the same sort of finicky players are not necessarily going to agree with your decisions. Some people really invest their egos (as well as a lot of offline time and thought) into their characters' strategies, and if you turn around to say "Well, sorry, but using gravity projectors to make a hyperdrive shred itself isn't a valid tactic just because I say so", you will wind up with at worst a long thread drama of the person pointing out half a hundred EU sources that say he's right or at best a dissatisfied player nursing annoyance that all his planning and tactical acumen doesn't mean anything in game terms.

    This is the biggest issue with having a very loose set of rules for what is intended as a complicated game. If you go out with a game that's 'marketed' as having mathematical determinants for victory, people enter on the assumption that they can work those mathematics to their advantage or that those mathematics to at least have a real impact on the game.

    In your game's case, respectfully the impression I get is you're saying to people "I'll give you a largely undefined set of numbers to define who has the bigger and better ship, but no rules for how those numbers play out other than 'the bigger fish wins, unless I get appealed to by what someone's written for their tactics, in which case the smaller fish might win'. What's the real point of having those rules if it's all largely GM fiat anyway? You might as well just say "Choose whatever ships you want, but I'm going to pick who wins no matter what."

    It's a very, very hard trick to pull off, and there are good reasons why board and RPG game designers spend years and a lot of money both creating and testing their concepts to see if they're fair, playable, or reasonably comprehensive. We don't see a lot of these games around here partially for those reasons.
  14. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    That's easy enough to work with. Like I said, I borrowed this from another RP I play (not my own system) so its to be expected there would be problems in transition. This is why I brought these things up here before posting the game.

    I'll work on fixing the problems with the system and get up a new version.

    EDIT:

    Incidentally, I didn't pick this system with an eye towards it getting that finicky and complex. Its a system that works in broad strokes, but doesn't for REALLY small details. And when I mention the smaller ships possibly winning it would be a VERY rare occurrence, and take some real work to pull off.

    For the large majority of cases, the points your ship are worth decide how the battle goes as far as who wins. And I don't plan on getting involved in every battle by any means. That would be going a little far.

    The hope is that people can work it out on their own (which I mentioned in the concept). What I figure that means is this:

    Say for example player A has the battle kick off...they will get to choose how it starts. Then when Player B makes their move, it moves the battle along. Player A then makes their move, and so on. It will be up to the players just as much as the points.

    Though, the points are for broad strokes only...namely as a way to define which group the ships fit in. If someone pulls out a crazy tactic (like you suggested for frying a hyperdrive) then that changes things. TEH POINTS aren't a deal breaker.

    But like I said, still a WIP here, so any more suggestions would be helpful:D
    Last edited by Skywalker_T-65, Sep 6, 2012
  15. Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    Well, what could possibly work is the VSD Mk I. They were made in the later stages of the Clone Wars (though before the Venator-class, believe it or not), and it might not be too unreasonable for the Rebellion to have one, especially as a flagship.
  16. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    Going back over the reference material (the original RP I got the point system from) the goal there was to make it so that if two ships got into a battle, it didn't matter what said ship was, just the points.

    To modify it for this game, I would have to do this:

    Make it where the points are the main deciding factor in a battle still. But instead of it being a way to balance two different ship ideas, it is a way to keep people from gaming the system and arbitrarily (since they posted first) making themselves win. The only reason's that the points won't work is if someone comes up with a suitably kooky tactic that could win a battle in a small ship vs. a big ship. Say they are using a Corvette against a Frigate/Destroyer...if they load up a royal frak-ton of torpedoes or other suitably big explosives, it can tilt the battle in their favor.

    That would be in the 'GM approved ship-mod' section though, so it still would fit the point system to a certain extent.

    I am working on getting more detailed point listings up (There is A LOT of ships out there...and each one needs a point value). So the points will be more detailed soon enough.

    That being said...I don't plan on getting involved in the battles unless it becomes necessary. I hope that the players can work it out themselves. Now if Saint or anyone else has any better ideas...please let me know. I want this to get off the ground with the least amount of problems possible.:D
  17. Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    An interesting factor you could add in, is that depending on how well supplied and how operational the ship(s) are, could make them have a disadvantage against ships that they normally would have a disadvantage against, and vice versa.
  18. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    To be honest, that's playing right into the scenario I described: "Feel free to scramble and accumulate as many points as possible, but if you can't come up with Grand Admiral Thrawn tactics, you're still going to lose." And the same imbalance applies in the opposite direction: "I don't care that you're commanding the Executor, the Tantive IV just pulled off a barrel roll in space, so you lose." Not saying you can't do it, just mark this section of the map as "Here Be Monsters" if you do and proceed with caution. :D

    If you're really determined to make a fair, balanced system for determining the outcome of space battles that doesn't require a lot of GM fiat intervention, then I heartily suggest going and cribbing one that already exists: the old d6 WEG Star Wars RPG, which had space combat rules. Or consider adapting the rules from Battlestations. Or Diaspora. Or (shudder) even GURPS. Then run the system behind the scenes without exposing the mathematics, or even just run it out in the open. The reason it doesn't then require a lot of GM intervention is because the rules do much of the determining of the outcome for you.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Sep 6, 2012
  19. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 6
    Oy! Quit slagging the GURPS an' all that. :p
    Last edited by Ramza, Sep 6, 2012
  20. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
  21. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Re: discussion earlier on this page, just a heads-up we're not strictly limited, in any sense of the word, to opening posts alone.
  22. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 6
    There's not even a queue right now, so even if we did it could probably float.
    Last edited by Ramza, Sep 6, 2012
  23. DarkLordoftheFins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    Okay, a few quick remarks, just to get back into Games Group Mood.

    1. Listen to Saint, your system is weak and there is no reason to use a weak system, when you have such a stage of advanced planning. Yeah, maybe Intervention uses the system, man, it is still weak. No element of chance, no tactical element, no crew . . . just points compared? Because if you send out two soldiers today the one with higher points always wins? A million times in a row, because he got more points? No, I´d say divide all stats into:

    SHIP
    COMMANDER
    CREW

    and add a D20 with the dice roller. That way you can display the characters and the ships and both count and people got a chance, anyway.

    2. Story. You need to have a hook. I seriously doubt the question of a VSD or not will influence even one single player, but the idea of "cruising around, playing tactical stuff" won´t get people raging either. So what you need is a hook, something to seel that game. And it won´t bethe system. We simply are not in love with systems like that around here . . .

    3. I love the AU idea. You should capitalize it, being the game with a battle hte characters can already influence?

    4. As a GM do not give yourself power your players never wanna see used. Just an experience I had over the years . . . never go there.
  24. Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    Fins brings up a good point, that leads me to say this:

    Its probably a good idea that you don't play in this game yourself. Sure, GM characters are one thing, but try to keep in mind not to play them as you would a normal player character, especially because GM characters are usually disposable, unless they are support characters for a single faction game.
  25. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    Okay...so should I just use the Rebel Admiral (who I would have played) as a sort of OC thing? As in, I write him in to get things moving, but not actually like I'm playing a character?

    Incidentally, working on a new system, hope to get that up tonight.:D

    As for Fin's points...

    1. Actually the point system isn't from Intervention (as far as I know). I got it from a different game on a different website. But since it seems flawed from the transition, I'll drop that. I'm looking at those links Saint gave me, and the D20 system to see if I can work up a better one. That should be up tonight if all goes well.

    2. Like I said...at first the story will be the canonical SW story. But since this fleet never existed, it will quickly devolve into AU territory. I've got most of a possible storyline (must stress the 'possible' part there) that I can work with until the player base starts changing things up.

    3. So I should bring the AU aspect into focus and use it as my hook? Makes sense I suppose...

    4. Limit the GM powers...understandable.

    Once I have free time, I'm getting back to working on this. With the new advice taken into account.:p
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