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RPR Archive The Game Masters Guild

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource Archive' started by PRENNTACULAR, Oct 9, 2006.

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  1. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    Welcome aboard you guys! We are glad to have you! Feel free to jump in at any time...or to PM me with issues you want to see discussed. You will be added to our next roster update.
  2. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    The villains won't exactly be villains. To each their own point of view. The players themselves will be able to become bad guys, but as for the NPG villains. We should have one major villain, add that with a Government conspiracy and cover-up, making them look like baddies, and then we add a third party, that should be our set up for the bad guys.
  3. Pheonix_Rising Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 3
    Not to pry on anything Prenn, but wouldn't this topic be better discussed as part of the story line at the GDG? Not that I'm opposed to it going on over here.

    but I'm just reading up on the progress we are making on this game in the three guilds and...quite frankly i'm happy with it, especially our arguments at the GDG, thank you OW21.

    Also, I'm gonna have to go with OW21 on this issue. I like the Idea of an undercover evildoer...
  4. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    Pheonix, I was allowing this conversation, because we deal with what happens during the game, and the GDG with what happens in the beggining of the game, but I do get your point. Thanks for bringing it up.

    And now...

    [image=http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2165/gmgbh9.jpg]

    *The Game Masters Guild* (Official Roster)

    Full Members:

    Penguinator-176
    Reynar_Tedros
    Pheonix_Rising
    Squishy_Vic
    Obi-Wan21
    Rayson
    Sith-I-5
    Zedd-Vega
    Winged_Jedi

    Partial Members (Add GMG to sig or bio!)

    LightWarden
    Darth_Vaders_cousin


    *Agenda*

    Now:- Formal Discussion- GM Theory: Finishing thoughts on Superhero game

    Soon- Specific Game Discussion - Penguinator-176. Specifically, Dr. Who?

    Later- GM Caseload

    *Always accepting discussion ideas!*



    *Topic*

    Get your finishing thoughts in on the super hero game! Offer any passing advice, or ask any questions you have, because pretty soon we are going to be switching topics!/>
  5. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    Alright everyone, here is what will be the opening post for the SuperHero RPG. As you will see, the game will be called Hollow Men- Collision. It's a metaphor for the story.

    ___________________________________




    Some People Are Meant For Something More

    ___________________________________________________________________________


    Hollow Men- Collision


    Heroes have existed in secrecy for many years. Only recently, due to a falling plane, did those with extraordinary abilities make themselves known. The man was named Taye Carter, granted super strength and the amazing ability of flight, Taye soared through the air, stopping the collision of a plane from crashing into a large ball park. Taye's appearance was meant with rousing questions, one of which why he would sacrifice his very identity to save others, he replied with a polite remark, and a quality smile.

    This was Taye's first taste of stardom, and the world's first encounter with those who were different. Gaining renown across the globe, Taye was the instructor of many others with special abilities, who slowly revealed themselves to the world. Carter promoted himself to be the open spokesman for this growing group of extraordinary beings. Although they had no answers regarding their origins, very little did their thoughts drift to this, most of these so called Heroes became obsessed with fame, the spotlight.

    Taye would become the group's heart and soul, leading them across missions to protect and serve. The team, now known as the Eternals, were becoming headstrong and impatient with their status in-front of the camera. Bob Franklin, one of the long standing members, realized the radical idea of taking the team's outings and placing them as being apart of a reality program. The show became a roaring success.

    At the turn of the new millenium, the popularity of the Eternals was proven to an even greater degree. Comic book sales had hit an all-time high, superhero films were even casting people with real abilities to play the parts of icons such as Spider-Man, even Superman. In 2001 a magazine titled With Great Power was released to news stands across the globe. It was the first and only magazine to take a deeper look into the lives of Heroes and even the Eternals. With great Power became another huge success and leap into the public's eye.

    The Eternals were a name known throughout homes, even the Times provided a cover story about the lives of the Eternals, yet one question always remained: Where did their powers come from? The team slowly grasped the regular occurrences of robberies, hold ups, protecting who they could, saving lives. Their reality show, though, was slowly hitting a steady decline with viewers. They needed something to spark a greater interest in their lives.

    Coincidentally, villains, with equally amazing powers, provided that spark with a massive biological attack in New York City. Although striking personal chords with people across the globe, their ratings geared heavily, being the central focus of news and resources relating to the attack. In those dangerous times citizens looked to Heroes, and found them watching over their cities.

    The Eternals were quickly spreading themselves thin, as a number of other attacks happened across Los Angeles, Houston, Cleveland, even Tokyo. It was erupting the globe into a frenzy. What was once ratings gold, had become a nightmare for billions of people. Luckily, another group known as the Archangels quickly took stride and positioned themselves as protectors of the people.

    The Archangels had been around for nearly as long as the Eternals, the difference being the Angels did not share the enthusiasm for the spotlight as the Eternals had. The Archangels priority would always be the protection and guardianship of the world around them. This often times led to arguing differences between the groups, but nothing to set the people on the fence.

    With the revelation of the Minority, a dark group set t
  6. SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 5
    I think that was a little harsh that no powers that aren't on the list are allowed. If someone has a unique, but not unfeasable, power that can't be described with a combination of those powers, why shouldn't they be allowed to play that character. As GM, I'd try to be a bit more open and try to encourage a wider variety of heroes to show up.

    Also, I'm kinda unclear whether or not we can play villians?
  7. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    If you want criticism, it may serve you better to pick a topic and stay put. Otherwise, people will have to jump back and forth between this post and the GDG and that just isn't any fun.
  8. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    The question is asked will you be a villain, or a hero. That basically says you choose your path. I will state it specifically if that feels to be necessary.

    The powers listed are everything that people can do. There's really nothing else out. There isn't. That's every power, in, forever. So that should be how it remains. Shoudl people really be making their own powers which could hinder the rule of what's powerful and what's moderate, and and weak. This list keeps it organized and makes sure the Game Masters know what they're working with.
  9. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    One teeny weeny problem... there's no in-game difference between the "moderate" and "weak" powers, except you've effectively told your players not to take the weak powers because they're losing slots that could be used for valuable moderate slots. I mean... I *could* pick Telepathy, Empathy, and Omnilingual... but I'd get spanked like a naughty schoolgirl by the guy who chose superspeed, superstrength and invulnerability (assuming that there was some sort of fight. If there wasn't, I could go about being a diplomat or whatever).

    Plus, I'd say your assessment of the power list isn't the wisest course to take. Off hand, I can think of a few you might be missing...

    -Creation. Be it weapons, random substances (maybe for transmutation, whee!), food, or some specialized gunk only you can use. Maybe even create some minions ("Go my shambling vegetables!"), though that might be better represented as summoning.
    -Healing. Must have been an oversight somewhere.
    -Reincarnation. Some guys are just hard to put down.
    -Any sort of Technological Aptitude. We've got things like technopath/machine empathy, or the ability to analyze or the ability to build/repair extremely complex things at incredible speeds
    -Leeching things other than powers. Where's the ability to use the skills of others in order to perform delicate operations like surgery?
    -Polymorph. Strange oversight here, as "Transmutation" seems to cover turning objects into other objects. But what about screwing with people? What if I want to turn my enemies into trout or my allies into giants? Or turn my enemies into stone? Or curse/weaken them?
    -Come to think of it, I want to be able to copy other things. Not just imitate them, but create a duplicate of someone/something else.
    -Simple superiority. We've got super reflexes, but no superhuman agility that allows you to rebound off walls or anything. And there doesn't seem to be an option to be in superior physical condition, but not to the point of being able to bench press a tractor. No superhuman stamina or super genius ability either.
    -Immovability. It's a power. Really.
    -Accuracy. 'Nuff said.
    -While we're on the subject... the ability to sense weak points (and attack them for massive damage) isn't on the list either.
    -Environmental Adaptation. Hot, cold, pressure, vacuum, whatever.
    -And speaking of environments, what about those other specialized movements such as superior jumping, swimming or tunneling?
    -Summoning. Ninjas, animals, constructs, screen-filling beasts with attacks that shake the earth... where are the minions?
    -Swarm form. It's cinematic, and it makes the villain hard to take down when he's split himself into thousands of tiny bugs.
    -Fluctuating Powers. Where are the guys who can choose between several powers depending on the situation?
    -Lesser flight. What about the guys who just glide/hover?
    -Pocket Dimension. It was there, then it wasn't. Not only is it a place to store your laundry, but it's a good way to attack people if you use it offensively. Who wouldn't want to be a French maid with a doom vacuum?
    -Damage Absorbtion. Some people find it comforting to jump into furnaces. Others can take a lickin and keep on ticking.
    -Continuing in that vein, there's interesting prospects for someone who takes a beating and then returns it with a Feedback power. Ooo baby, oppress me more!
    -Mass increase. It's probably something of an alternate form, but what about the ability to turn into a giant chunk of rock/metal, complete with superstrength, armor and the like?
    -Special immunities. Aging slowly/not at all, having a reduced/non-existant need for things like food or sleep, immunity to poisons or diseases... it can be pretty interesting to be a powered being.

    Well, that's 20 to 30 odd powers (depending on how you count) that aren't on your list as far as I can tell. So it's not perfect by any measure. This exercise just proves that you should be more receptive to the visions of others... they could surprise you.

    And since I'm lazy, I'll just quote my ear
  10. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    I didn't organize the category for each power, nor the titles, which I intend to change. Healing Factor is up there, pay attention and check again. Technopath will be added. Creation is a pointless power, since it's there, yet in different, more organized forms. So it all works. Pocket Dimensions was removed not by me, and I've already been working on adding it again while I'm organizing the category system. There's little more I can do than correct a few things.

    Levels is pointless because characters won't be leveling up. Lesser flight is more along the lines of a disadvantage than a power, being able to fly, but only glide and/or levitate. The powers will be organized to a Strong to lesser category though. And it won't turn players away, they'll just know how much power goes into something. Flight is a weak power, it's not offensive, nor can it defend. You just fly. It's all a very logical system.
  11. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    I know that Healing Factor is in there. But it's the ability to Heal others that isn't. As to Creation being a pointless power, I'm pretty sure that's your opinion; if a player wants to have a character with the flexibility to conjure up random things, I can't see why there'd be a problem. If you want a character with something like a heightened immune system even though there aren't many opportunities to see it in play, more power to you.

    As to levels, I know we discussed this. There are huge differences in abilities for powers. Superspeed could be anything from being as fast as a sports car to being able to run at supersonic speeds to being able to reach the speed of light. Superstrength ranging from the ability to lift five hundred pounds to the ability to lift a hundred tons. There's a difference between flying like a hawk and flying like a jet, or possessing incredible manuverability (and there's what environments you can manuver in- birds require air, but Superman can blitz around space or the ocean when he feels like it). Healing ranging from the ability to heal cuts and bruises to regenerating organs and limbs. Teleportation ranging from going nextdoor to going to crossing oceans. Elemental manipulation could range from something you can fit in your hands to everything within a city block or more. Your call, but I'd suggest coming up with some method for keeping tabs on your players' capabilities.
  12. Sith-I-5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    Flight is a weak power, it's not offensive, nor can it defend. You just fly.

    Yeah, Superman flying round the Earth so fast it makes the planet revolve the other way. Yeah, I can see how that can be defined as weak.

    Even if you accept that the time reversal thing would be impossible, as scientific experts have said, surely the planets gravity would be disrupted, causing an Extinction Level Event?

    I get concerned by idiots on bicycles riding on the pavement; I'd certainly treat someone FLYING at me with trepidation. Sorry, don't see how it can be classified weak, or completely non-combative.
  13. SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 5
    Someone who's not good at RPing a French accent or in French?

    I agree with Light. Unless there's some unseen advantage to picking "weak" powers over "moderate" powers, you're just gonna look as lame as Aquaman. I'd say lump all the non-"Strong" powers into one category since the distinction between "moderate" and "weak" appears to be purely subjective with no grounding in the character creation roles. The distinction had a purpose under the points system that some of us were advocating in the early stages of the game: You could accumulate a whole bunch o' weak powers for the price of one of the stronger powers. Here the distinction seems to serve only to make those powers seem undesirable.

    And, when I asked about playing as Villains, I was thinking more along the lines of having an organized group of villains to serve as an antagonist to your superhero teams. Where would the X-Men be without the Brotherhood? Magneto alone wouldn't be a very intimidating threat when the X-men constantly have numerical advantages over him. (I know this probably shoulda been brought up in GDG, but Oh well). As long as we have two -count 'em two- good guy groups, we oughtta have one accessible bad guy group (since the Minority is apparently gone, it's unlikely villains would be joining a nonexistant criminal organization).
  14. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    Creation is there in different fashions, it's pointless to have another Creation, when something VERY similar exists already. When you fly all you can do is fly. There's nothing offensive about it, since our characters aren't Superman that points moot.

    Again, I didn't add the tabs for the difference between powers, but the strong category will have to remain somewhat the same, since people could pick them all, and it needs to be limited. The advantage for each category is there. Most of those in the weak category are more personal powers, I've added changes to the categories since I posted them.

    They aren't offensive, nor very defensive. Danger Sense is defensive, probably the only one, wallcrawling, flight, all of those offer an ability to be something cool. But if someone had the abilities to wallcrawl, translate languages, and recognize people with super powers, and that character went up against someone who had superstrength, superspeed, and teleportation, well, that 'weak' character wouldn't stand a chance.

    I'm fine with meshing the Moderate and weak into one category, I was already thinking about it. Since it really doesn't serve anything for the rules. I just felt people should know what they're looking into power-wise. And what it's really capable of.

    As for leveling, It's a system that would go for five levels, since I have been working on it, but it's the points for leveling that I'm debating over. Every power will literally have to be able to advance, and not all of them can do that. Such as wallcrawling.

    There are fences to get over. The PVP I added in the rules was actually to help with the leveling up, I decided to keep it for other purposes. If anyone has suggestions for the leveling system, I'm open to hearing them.

    And, about the evil organization, that's more of a plot point. Our characters aren't going to wake up and suddenly be able to master their powers and be evil. They need to get into the groove of their powers, once they have, I already had intentions to introduce a group of villains. Or the players can make their own teams of Heroes and villains.

    You're thinking about basics, when the plot is something different. I think you'll enjoy what I have planned for villains.
  15. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Every power will literally have to be able to advance, and not all of them can do that. Such as wallcrawling.

    Hmm... if only there was some sort of system where you weren't automatically forced to maximize one power to the best of your ability, and could instead pick and choose powers in accordance with your vision...
  16. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    Even then, though, leveling would still be an issue, as it was already brought up in accordance with that type of system. Gotta level up somehow. Or not at all.
  17. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Well, you could always learn from others. It's not perfect, but it does have several good ideas, especially dealing with the option to further customize your powers by altering certain aspects of them. Covers a wide variety of things too. But of course, it uses points. Gasp, shock, quiver.
  18. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    Yet it uses a point buy system for each power? We aren't doing that. Unless someone can come up with a different inclusion to upgrade powers by level, I'm just going to throw that out the window, and come up with something myself. Or remove that basis of leveling all-together. Our characters are just waking to their abilities, they'll learn, and they'll have a weakness, both personal and relating to their power.

    But points lost, and we aren't doing it. Now, if someone cannot come up with something that actually relates to what we have, this debate is pointless.
  19. Pheonix_Rising Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 3
    Hmmm...I Think LightWarden and I already had our EXCELLENT idea beaten with a rubber mallet. D20 would be a perfect reference for this kind of system, you don't necessarilly(sp?) level up by fighting, it is only one of many ways. You can get experience by hacking a computer, you could get it by flirting with a barmaid and you can get it by simply shooting an arrow at an archery range. there are so many different ways to do this that you are putting Neural Inhibitors on your players by putting the 'weak' powers and the 'strong' on the same level... It's just wrong.

    And as for this:
    I'm thinking not, the GDG has already put work into this...it would be disrespectful if you just wen and changed something without bringing it up for discussion first.
  20. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    But... your slot system sucks. Your only arguments were "We don't like the freedom to make choices" and "players will become samey" (which is all sorts of ridiculous). And in exchange for you this protection, you gain the ability to make characters who are completely railroaded into developing their characters around a specific path, and who basically wind up gimping themselves if they choose powers that aren't 1) scalable and 2) moderate in strength.

    And now you won't learn from a system that has already considered the same problems you're facing? Mr. Edgeworth, your rebuttal? I'm not calling this system the be-all, end-all, but there's certainly a great deal you could learn about scaling powers from it.

  21. SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 5
    [face_laugh] :D :p [face_monkey] [face_dancing]

    I think that about sums up the hilariousness of this post (possibly lost on the GMG crowd if they aren't participating GDG members)
  22. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Thing is, when you guys were having the original vote, I thought when you said "Slots", you were referring to a system like the following.

    You have six power slots. Minor powers take up 1 slot, moderate take up 2 to 3 and major take up 4 to 6. Powers have five levels, and start off at level 1. As you progress in the game, your GM will give you a suitably heroic marker for accomplishing things he feels are important enough, like defeating your rivals, saving the day, becoming the spokesperson for GeneriCorp, etc. You spend them to boost your powers in accordance with their original cost. Thus lesser powers would scale up faster than major powers (hey, it isn't easy to tell the laws of physics to shut up and sit down). You might even include a spot for one-shot "flavor abilities" that don't really scale up very well, like wall-crawling, photographic reflexes, danger sense or omnilingual (would you really want to put your player through that kind of grief? "Hurrah, level 3! I now speak every language known to man, and a few only known to monkeys!"). Because if you want things to level, you're probably going to have to come up with some mechanical system for it.

    Still doesn't allow people the freedom to be something like Spider-man, who's got some superstrength, but not to the Hulk's level, along with being slightly faster than normal/better reflexes, but not to the level of speedsters, somewhat smarter than average, but not super-genius, skilled at jumping and acrobatics, as well as other powers like a danger sense, wall-crawling, and the ability to fire webs. Too many abilities for your game.
  23. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    I don't feel that a number system should determine what I can or cannot write about in a game.

    And anyways, LW, how does a points system change this situation? Yes, you could write "12 points in super-strength means you can lift X lbs/kgs/whatever", but the problem is always about how players follow these instructions. The game shouldn't need to be managed day and night by Obi-Wan21, he's probably got real, tangible problems to deal with.



  24. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Agreed with Penguinator. Points are very complicated to do. I'm not a D20 person. I don't want to deal with excessive math. If I fight someone, I don't want to check my STR points against my foes, maybe having to factor in INT or DEX or whatever acronyms are used. IMO, these boards focus more on creative writing than anything. Something a slots system is more focused to. Until I see a mathematical style game succeed, myself as a Game Designer will always be wary of overly numerizing games...

    Moving to the big issue:

    The Points/Slots debate, gentlemen, was settled with a long and absolutely heated debate in the GDG. In the end it was settled by a fair majority vote. I think its a bit unfair to continue grousing about the issue. Because it literally can go on forever.

    To the Points People: if you think you can do better with your system, write up a first post and toss it to the GDG. It's not going to replace the game we're doing now, but I'd be happy to bring it in under the examination table.

    I do have a critique however for Obi-Wan...

    But that will go in the GDG, as it has to do with Systems Issues...

    -I_H
  25. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    It's not nearly as dangerous as you're making it out to be.
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