RPR Archive The Game Masters Guild

Don't worry, Peng. It can be tough to find a balance between making the game too easy or too hard. In my experience, most GMs struggle with it at some point in their career.

 

To Winged' you listen, Peng'. Knows what he's talking about, he does.
I'll get back to you.

 

Don't feel like a jerk, Peng, you are trying to challenge your players, and that's a nobel task.

So, this brings up an interesting question. What is a way to continually challenge your players without opressing them? How does one strike this balance?

 

Come up with challenges that have choices, making those decisions harder and the outcome ultimately in their hands. So if they do wrong, and that outcome is granting the baddies a greater hand, then it's on their heads. They need challenges that they can logically and fairly overcome, but if they fail, then it's their fault.

Now, if it's for plor purposes, it's a whole different story, the players can't beat the badguys for plot development, in the end they may, but having the baddies win for plot, rarely, it's fair.

 

I know that when I've been put in this situation it is always a tough one for me. So is there any technique you guys use to come up with creative situations that give players choices, or is it simply by osmosis. That is to say, are some just good at it? Can you guys think of some ways for making the creative process easier or sure-fire on the GM, during a game?

 

Hello again, New found friends and a happy new year to you all.

The CDG, GDG and GMG seem to hand-in-hand So, I do believe that I will sign myself into this guild, for it was always my weakest point out of the three.

And to answer your question...

I have run a tabletop for three years now and I use a '100 quest ideas' list from the D&D DM Guide. Unfortunately an annoying aquantiance of mine has run off with my book so I cannot even give you any examples

 

I am barely impinging on this (and Game Design) territory, since as a Co-GM for the post-ROTS Jedi Faction in Galaxy at War III, I have created a storyline to give them something to do - they've been stuck on Dagobah hiding from the Empire for a while.

It took me a while to absorb the fact that they needed me to do such a thing, I'm a bit slow in that regard.

Anyway, I created a storyline that I have to make sure I have no loyalty to, so when the players don't follow the correct path, I don't get stressed; this is about them having fun.

I also created some npc protagonists, drew a map and a town plan, and used my own PCs to shove them from the main game story down my offramp, and am just trying to maintain a loose meta-control over the situation.

I think the important part here for a sub-quest, is the 'have no loyalty or investment in your particular path being carried out'. Because if there is one thing I'm learning about RP versus fanfic, is that players are unpredicatable as frag.

For example, I've got a small town, a general spaceport for my players to land at, and even though I am trying not to micro-manage, the pilot goes and lands outside my town. I have to shift things rather drastically from even my vision to incorporate it, because it just hadn't occurred to me that might happen.

 

Yeah that kills my desire to even make a game sometimes. I'll have a really good idea and a great storyline, but then I'll start thinking about the ways a player could do something different. I mean it doesn't bother my perception per say, but it makes me feel oppressive when i can't give them a reason that they can't do something. Kinda frustrating

 

You are probably controlling things too closely.

I'm trying to think of a movie plot to use, but not risk exposing my game, which is currently in play. Okay, I'll do Ice Age 2

You got this big geographical bowl, and outside it, you know the melting ice is going to flood the valley at some point in the future.
I provide some npcs in the valley for the player to interact with, but as far as I'm concerned, it is up to the player and his/her actions as to whether he learns about the danger before it is too late.

Largely, I don't - or shouldn't - get too concerned at what he does inside the bowl; there are no set paths to force him in any particular direction. There will be clues, but hopefully, he can have fun figuring out what is going on.

 

It seems simple enough, But my paranoia extends from the tabletop, where i have a player who ruins everything if i don't tell him he can't do something.

 

Ruin in what way? Does he try to make things difficult?

 

No he doesn't try to or i would have booted him out, he just likes things that are so unique they're cliche. He carries approximately 18 weapons, including a shovel and spiked chain, and only uses magic missile, claiming it's his "specialty" spell. It's so frustrating that I've become a bit of a tyrant just to keep the game going.

 

Sounds like a situation tailor made for npcs with that mirror spell that casts whatever damage your player tries to inflict back onto him.

What would magic missile do to him if he got it back in the face?

You are a d20 GM, aren't you? If Lightwarden can't help you with this, I will be very surprised.

 

Try arcane spell failure. Roll your 2 10-sided dice to determine the percentile and then have him roll his own 10-siders to determine if it fails or not. If he wears armor, he should have an arcane spell failure chance (even if it's only 5%) and if so, add that number to your percentile and subtract it from his. Should he succeed the check, his spell works; if not have it blow up in his face or not work at all.

My personal favorite for dealing with players like that:

DM: You've been sailing for days now on the open sea, and the cold air of the northlands is clearly becoming a problem.

PC: Not to worry, I have a fire spell ready so we may warm ourselves.

DM: On a wooden ship?

PC: It's not a harmful flame, it just warms you.

DM: I can't allow that.

PC: It's a specialty spell, and as a Fire Mage, I believe it is clearly within my scope of ability.

DM: *rolls random dice, not for actual checks, just out of irritation*

PC: How's that fire treating you guys? We'll be in Navarhaven in no time and in complete warmth as--

DM: Rocks fall from the sky.

PC: What?

DM: You're dead.

PC: Just me?

DM: *nods* Of course.

PC: How?

DM: Earthbenders...

PC: Earthbenders?

DM: Earthbenders. Rocks fall. You're dead.

PC: I cast Mage Armor to avoid being damaged.

DM: Okay, you're in the 7th Level of Baator with Mage Armor cast. Such a magical beacon draws all kinds of devils and unholy beasts towards you. As for everyone else, the cold is really getting to you. If you would like to stay above deck, make fortitude saves. If you'd like to go back to your cabin, make Balance checks to avoid being knocked around by the winds.

 

most excellent situation Zedd.

And no spells exist to my knowledge but I have made a few 'spell mirrors' in the past and an illusion spell that make them think that they're being damaged. Mostly i just give the opposing mages badass counterspell abilities and the fighters damage reduction. Thats not nessicarily fair but it keeps him, and the rest of the group, busy.

 

Shield spell. 1st level. Blocks magic missiles. Basic armament of any mage. If you want to make him feel better about it, just say "your reputation proceeds you" or something.

 

I knew about that one. We where thinking reflect of some sort. They're hard to find and I own the v3.5 Spell Compendium. I just had to make my own.

 

Impose limits on his weaponry. It's possible to carry 18 weapons, as long as they're small, but if they are shovel-sized...

And magic missile? I dunno what to do. Follow LW's advice.

 

Does your game have a spell that cancels or drains an opponent's mana? I have found this in several fantasy RP settings.
If so, your npcs could hit him with it. And limit his weapons, or ability to move with that many.

 

If you are playing 3.0 or 3.5, on the character sheet there should be only so many slots for weaponry. Have him choose his best weapons or weapons he will find useful for his adventuring career and place the others in a portable hole or other extradimensional space (held by an NPC of your choosing).

As for spells, as a sorcerer or mage, have him specifically keep track of material components. However, your player might be cunning in his choice of favored spell, as Magic Missile requires no material component in 3.0 (maybe that has changed in 3.5, but I detest 3.5)

Or you could always have a sarlaac open up from underneath him and swallow him whole. I believe they have a SR (spell resistance) of about 60)

 

That also works but he'll miraculisly survive somehow. Or I'll fix one problem and he'll make another one. ex. I managed to kill his character with an Epic Meteor spell. So he decides to roll up a summoner and goes legit for a few dungeons. Then just when I'm feeling proud of him, He drops the class entirely and switches to ranger...

So he's a Wizard 3/Ranger 1 who doesn't use spells... at all

He claims he has amnesia

 

Then tell him he's making the game complicated for not just yourself, but the other players. Surely your players understand what a trouble-maker he is and support you. After all, the game loses its "fun drive" when one player is overruling the DM. You are the power center of the game, and if he cannot accept it, expel him from gameplay.

 

Wow. He killed his own game and this thread.

 

LOL