The Garden of Eden - Theme of the Saga?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Tattered, Jul 29, 2004.

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  1. Tattered Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2004
    star 3
    Reposting from the ROTS forum; it touches directly upon Episode III, but was not welcome there.

    I?ve been thinking about this for a good long while. Warning: It?s long, and complex.

    You may need to read this twice for it to make sense. This is from the King James Bible, namely the book of Genesis. There are pairs of terms in parentheses. The first term is the Bible one, the second is my Star Wars interpretation. Is this the Prophecy?

    It goes like this:


    Now the (serpent/Sith) was more subtle than any (beast of the field/creature in the galaxy), which the (Lord God/Force) had made. And (He/the Sith) said unto (the woman/Anakin), ?Yea, hath (God/the Jedi) said, ye shall not eat of (every tree of the garden/the true power of both sides of the Force)??

    And (the woman/Anakin) said unto the (serpent/Sith), ?We may eat of the (fruit of the trees of the garden/light side of the Force), but of (the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden/knowledge of the dark side), (God/the Jedi) hath said, ?Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.?

    And the (serpent/Sith) said unto (the woman/Anakin), ?Ye shall not surely die: For (God/the Force) doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.?


    And (they/Anakin) heard the voice of the (Lord God/Jedi) walking in the (garden/Temple) in the cool of the day, and (they/Anakin) hid (themselves/himself) from the presence of the (Lord God/Jedi) amongst the (trees of the garden/veils of the Sith).

    And the (Lord God/Jedi) called unto (Adam/Anakin), and said unto him, ?Where art thou??

    And Anakin said, ?I heard thy voice in the (garden/Temple), and I was afraid, because I was (naked/powerless), and I hid myself.?

    And (He/the Jedi) said, ?Who told thee that thou wast (naked/powerless)? Hast thou (eaten of the tree/learned of the dark side), whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not (eat/learn)??

    And (the man/light side of Anakin) said, ?The (woman/power) whom thou gavest to be with me, (she/it) gave me of the (tree/dark side), and I did (eat/learn).?

    And the (Lord God/Jedi) said unto the (woman/dark side of Anakin), ?What is this that thou hast done? And the (woman/dark side of Anakin) said, ?The (serpent/Sith) beguiled me, and I did (eat/learn)."

    And the (Lord God/Jedi) said unto the (serpent/Sith), ?Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all (cattle/lifeforms), and above every (beast of the field/creature of the galaxy); upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt eat all the days of thy life; and I will put enmity between (thee/the Sith) and (the woman/Anakin), and between (thy seed/the Sith legacy) and (her/his) seed; (it/the child of Anakin) shall (bruise thy head/defeat you), and thou shalt (bruise his heel/defeat his father).

    Unto (the woman/the light side of Anakin) (He/the Force) said, ?I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to (thy husband/memory of your wife), and (he/your memory of her) shall rule over thee.?

    And unto (Adam/the dark side of Anakin) (He/the Jedi) said, ?Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of (thy wife/the dark side), and hast (eaten of the tree/learned of the dark side), of which I commanded thee, saying, ?Thou shalt not (eat/learn) of it,? cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; (thorns also and thistles/guilt) shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt (eat the herb of the field/suffer); in the sweat of thy face shalt thou (eat bread/pay penitence), till thou return unto the ground; for out of it was thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.?

    And (Adam/Anakin) called his (wife?s name/dark self) (Eve/Vader); because (she/he) was the (mother of all living/dark father).


    And the (Lord God/Sith) said, ?Behold, (the man/Anakin) is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his
  2. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    It's a very interesting idea. Personally, in my atheistic ways, it wouldn't sit comfortably for me and SW, because I always thought Adam and Eve were right to eat the fruit, right to crave more knowledge, right to want to lose the ignorance of innocence, and that God is the power-hungry tyrannical villain in that story. But that's just me ... ;) :D :p
  3. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    ^ I can't agree with you more.
    Genisis paints a terrible picture in my opinion.
    Adam and Eve were wrong to go after information, after the truth?

    The Earth was created before the stars?

    So many areas in the Bible where God is a terrible person. I don't mean to offend anyone. To take it personal it is my opinion. He told Abraham to kill his own son? Personally I don't trust the Bible and have my own views.

    -but I digress.

    The Bible, Homer and other ancient writings have a great effect on Star Wars. Star Wars is a space mythology just as the Invasion of Troy is a Greek Mythology. These mythic stories effect GL greatly. Campbell's views on the hero's journey especially effected the Saga.

    A New Hope is an excellent example of A Campbell hero. Lucas was obsessed with the myth. He read "Hero with a Thousand Faces" and it influenced him greatly. Star Wars is a modern day myth and I don't think anyone would argue with me there.

    No other piece of literature influenced GL more than the structure and story of the ancient myth.

  4. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    I know - don't get me wrong, in many ways the things taught by God in the Bible are moral and right - but in my personal opinion, that idea that you fall into sin by eating the fruit of KNOWLEDGE is a very scary thing to teach people. Everyone should aspire to be knowledgeable, to move away from innocence and ignorance. It's part of normal human development, of growing up, and it's something to be cherished and enjoyed, not feared and condemmed. That's why, if the Garden of Eden story was true, getting thrown out of it was probably the best thing that ever happened to the human race. It also forms such an interesting contrast to other religions - Islam is a religion that actually teaches that people should aspire to be knowledgeable, and in medieval times Muslim doctors were the best in the world - they used amazing scientific methods similar to what we used now, whereas Christian doctors tried "spritual" cures that almost always led to the patient's death. I don't know, maybe I've been reading too much Philip Pullman, but the God in Genesis and what He stands for in that book is a very scary one to me.

    But yeah, one of the great things about Star Wars is that it takes all religions and just spiritualism and morality in general, and finds the common ground amongst all of them, and uses those morals and those ideas as a basis for telling an entertaining story.
  5. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Just two comments.

    First off, this is a fairly interesting topic. However, I don't think that the SW story bears any particular resemblance to the Garden of Eden. That is, beyond the very basic manuever of innocence and the introduction of sin, which is what the whole story is supposed to show the origin of, anyway.

    As for the theological commentary along the side, I haven't taken any offense. I do want to clear up one point of confusion, though. The tree was not just of knowledge. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Presumably, under the auspices of a God who is entirely good, and in a universe that he declared to be good, Adam and Eve would have learned good experientially (as well as technology, the arts, etc). Therefore, if we look at the story within the proper context, the only thing they really did by eating the fruit was gain knowledge of evil, which, by definition, is something we'd be better off without. What happens here is kind of similar to saying that humans chose to open Pandora's box and inflict the plights contained therein upon themselves.

    So yeah, just wanted to clear up that one point.
  6. The_Fireman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2001
    star 4
    Thank you, Jabba, for that clarification. I for one DID take offense to the ramblings over the moral of the Genesis account. Adam and Eve were not discouraged from gainging knowledge, but from actively seeking out evil.

    Now, Tattered, nice idea, I kinda like it. I very much doubt that is the actual prophecy, or that the prophecy itself will even be cited in its entirety (or even in segments), but it is a nice idea.
  7. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Well yeah, Fireman, some of the opinions were expressed in a manner that could be offensive. But they seemed to be talking mostly among themselves, and weren't really trying to take offense, just state their opinion directly. Given that fact, I didn't take any.
  8. Ana_Labris Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2000
    star 4
    I have to agree with DarthyMarkyMark, Darth-Seldon and of course Tattered on this one.
    I never took the Knowledge that Adam and Eve gained with the apple as knowledge of evil, it's never stated that way. Even if it is, one must gain knowledge from both but that doesn't mean to abuse it for evil deeds even tho the temptation is so great. Then again that's impossible.. I dunno.. Good idea and this was an interesting read.
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