The Gates Arrest: what does it say about race?

J-Rod, really? "I'll show your momma my ID," is a threat now? I've said worse than that in these very forums. That police officer was stupid for doing it. I'm not saying Henry Gates didn't act stupidly himself, but arresting a man in his own home is just...wow...I can't believe it. And yes, I'm going to call a police officer stupid. Here's some more: Officer Crowley was stupid, stupid, stupid. Oh no I di'int, how dare I call him stupid. Well...he was, that's why. Quit kneeling down to these suckers.

EDIT: And Obama shouldn't have to apologize for giving a candid opinion. And I disagree with him even playing nice over this.

EDIT 2:

Yeah, not sure what color the sky is on your planet, but a man getting arrested in his own house isn't an 'insignificant' event. A turd plopping into the toilet, maybe. But not this. At all. And shame on people for thinking that this is just someone being a drama queen.

 

While we'll disagree with the "your mama" comment, don't forget that Gates refused the lawful order of steppng outside, an order given for the afore mentioned reason. The investigation wasn't complete.

And if the cops come to my door for legitimate reasons, I don't have the right to give them a hard time. (And yes, investigating a break-in report is a legitimate reason)

 

Mr44

I assume you'll know the answer...when Gates started to yell at the officer, could the officer have just walked away? I haven't heard the tapes or anything, but given that Gates was in his own home, is it part of procedure in such a situation to just leave after verifying that Gates was in fact in his own home. Does the arrest seem appropriate?

 

That's true, but I can understand why he'd be agitated being approached by police for entering his own home. You can say you wouldn't give the police a hard time, but I think it'd be a bit different if it happened to you. Personally I believe police can act like thugs most of the time (from personal experience).

 

Interfering with an investigation? Really, how can you go from investigating a break-in to arresting the owner of the house after concluding that there was no actual break-in?

Disturbing the Peace? He was in his own house. It was his peace to disturb.

 

Yeah, I see this as a case of police acting stupidly. And abusing their power. I mean, I know they've got a tough job, but this is as close to being brain dead without actually being brain dead. Shame the police can't...you know...use their brains when dealing with situations.


EDIT: I can see maaaybe handcuffing him and taking him to the car until he could be ID'd properly. But arresting the man? ****ing ********.

 

I'm surprised so many intelligent people think this event says a damn thing about race.

Its possible Gates overreacted and provoked the officer. Its also possible the officer provoked Gates. I'd say we have no idea as to the real details. As far as I can see people are just using this as confirmation for their pre-existing opinions regarding race.

 

I'm using it as confirmation for my belief that police officers (not all) are borderline thugs with a god complex.

 

I think we need to cool it down a little in here.

Personally, I'm frustrated that I have only heard 1 African-American on TV say "it's POSSIBLE this incident was NOT about race." Only one. I'm sorry, but no matter who provoked who, it seems like Gates is the one who turned it into a "race relations in the US" firestorm. Most African-American commentators ruled out the possibility that it could possibly not be about race. "If it was Larry Summers breaking into his house, he wouldn't have been arrested."

But really, if it was an African-American cop arresting Gates instead (and there was a Latino and African-American present when he was handcuffed) then I really doubt Gates would have been yelling racism, and this definitely wouldn't be in the news right now. Based on the facts I know, if someone was giving the cops an attitude while investigating a possible break in of your house, I don't care if you're a black elite or a white elite, its withing the cop's right to take you in.

For the people who keep saying "if it was Larry Summers it wouldn't be happening," if that's true, then that would be wrong too, because he shouldn't be treated differently under the law just because he works at a university or is a person of significance. Nobody, whether a white elite like Larry Summers or a black elite like Gates, should be above the law.

Gates would have probably been handcuffed in this situation, whether he was white or black. A person made a call that 2 people were breaking in to the house. Even if he proved it was his house, the cops wanted to know he was sure there was no one else in there, or see if they should check it out, for his safety. He kept giving them attitude, according to all the reports.

People also keep saying "but he has a cane!" I don't care, they didn't handcuff him because they thought he was a threat, obviously, but for not cooperating and for obstructing. It's happened plenty of tiems before. He certainly was acting suspicious, they may have felt like they should have checked out his place just in case. I don't know about nayone else, but I would be happy that people were concerned for my house, yet he was screaming racism from the start.

He was NOT brutalized.

He was NOT called racial slurs.

This was NOT a case of the police dispoportionately pulling over black people instead of white people, it was investigating a claim of a break in supposedly taking place. It wasn't racial profiling. They were called and they responded. Being polite, when you have no reason not to, would have gone a long way.

People shouldn't be so quick to brand a police officer a racist, which would follow him for life. Many cops, black and white, say Crowley is a good guy and not the type some people are making him out to be. He even teaches other cops on how to prevent racial profiling!

 

I don't think the cop was a racist, just a fool. The person who called the police in the first place was probably at least bordering on racist.

 

That's great. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct in his own home despite the fact the law requires it to be public and the Mass. courts have stated the mere presence of a police officer does not make it public. The courts have also ruled that police officers are trained to resist provocation so there is a higher requirement for aggressive speech.

This isn't about race, it's about police officers throwing their weight around because they can. They appear to believe that not treating them with due deference is cause for arrest.

I'm reminded of the case in North Carolina where a man was arrested for dishonoring the flag by a cop outside of his jurisdiction.

 

I assume you'll know the answer...when Gates started to yell at the officer, could the officer have just walked away? I haven't heard the tapes or anything, but given that Gates was in his own home, is it part of procedure in such a situation to just leave after verifying that Gates was in fact in his own home. Does the arrest seem appropriate?

Of course he could have, and really, the end result of the officer's actions (the arrest) wasn't worth the hassle, and also predictably, the charges were dropped. In a perfect world, depending on when other officers arrived, Crowley probably should have walked away and let a neutral co-worker finish up the call. But the catch-22 was that Crowley was the on scene supervisor, so the call would have defaulted back to him anyway.

But there are valid reasons why Gates was arrested. To all those who have said no laws were broken, failure to obey a peace officer is a crime in itself, and it's not just a chump charge. An officer's authority is built around controlling the situation for the safety of everyone involved.

People are arrested in their own home all the time. During domestic disturbances, for example, you can bet a person can be arrested for not moving to a different room and/or failing to stop yelling at their partner because the mere continuance of the argument is interfering with the investigation, even if no other crime was committed. Part of standard procedure in those circumstances is to separate the people involved, and they don't have a choice. (for valid reasons)

Homeowners also reach for knives, guns, weapons in general, in their own home all the time, especially if they are going through other issues or are acting in an agitated manner.

The act of breaking into a house, even if it's your own, isn't typical, and is going to garner the attention of the neighbors or the police. People have to realize that this was reported by a neighbor (witness) as a break-in in progress. Just because Gates had ID showing his address, was he in the middle of a divorce and was breaking into his ex-wife's house? Did some other resident there have an order of protection against Gates? Was Gates in the middle of a rent dispute with the landlord? Was Gates suicidal and/or despondent?

Who knows? Certainly not the police who respond to the call. Crowley certainly had every right, and in fact, had a legal duty to control Gate's movement until the scene was completely secured.

I'm sure most people, when asked to, would have simply walked outside to the porch with the officer and it never would have been an issue. It would have been a 5 minute process at most.

It's the nutballs who yell, scream, and generally bring more problem than its worth who always prolong the situation. What's the alternative? To tell Gates to wait there and pretty please not grab a shotgun while Crowley steps outside to verify the information he was given?

 

44, as I said before: I can see maaaybe handcuffing him and taking him to the car until he could be ID'd properly. But arresting the man? ****ing ********.

There wasn't a need to arrest him when putting him in handcuffs for the duration of the situation would've been more preferable considering the fallout. Crowley acted stupidly in arresting him when it could've just as easily have been handled another way. Belligerent or not, they didn't have to arrest him.

 

Except your facts are wrong here. Gates was not in his own home, he has exited the home following the officer, and continued to make a scene outside before he was arrested. That is one fact that both Gates and the officer agree upon in their separate accounts.

Once more, Gates was not arrested for disorderly conduct in his home, he was arrested in front of his home, which does legally count as being in public.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Sorry FIDo but you're accepting his pretext. Crowley was inside Gates house being yelled at, so he left the house and when gates followed he arrested him for disorderly.

There was nothing even beginning to represent threat of bodily harm of some imagined fanciful instance of gates running off to grab a shot gun or attacking with kitchen knives. Crowley knew he couldn't arrest him inside so he moved it outside.

The police are more than willing to bait you so they can conduct an arrest if you piss them off.

 

I'll remember that for if I ever encounter the police.

 

Legal specifics don't help. There are simply too many ways they can justify a nuisance arrest.

 

Proving once again my point that police officers are borderline thugs with a god complex.

 

This is true. A manager where I work is a former cop and it's clear he gets off on being in power over people. And I'm sure his complex that came from sinking from law enforcement to middle retail management only makes things worse.

So, we've established cops have attitude and a superiority complex, and harvard professors who are friends with the president have attitude and superiority complexes. If you mix them, the cop has to "win" one way or the other.

 

I think in the end Henry Gates is going to win the PR battle. Everyone hates cops. At least until you need 'em. Even if they were in the right or not, people just hate 'em.

 

I highly suspect a large percentage of law enforcement individuals got into the business, at least in part, for the purpose of being able to be in control over people.

I also still think witnessing people forcing the door of house open justifies calling the police to sort it out.

 

Thugs? Maybe not. But definitely willing to use the law as a weapon.

The ones you really have to watch out for are security with quasi police authority. Your TSAs and the like. They aren't nearly as well trained and tend to not even understand the laws they're supposedly enforcing. Even the police using the law as a weapon tend to obey the rules, although in a strict unforgiving way like the Sanhedrins of old. There no way of guessing what the quasi authorities will come up with.

That being said there are definitely police officers who abuse it beyond even strict legalism and unfortunately they all defend each other irregardless unless things get very bad.

 

Agreed. I still think the arrest wasn't needed.


farraday makes a good point as well. The security guard and TSA types are absolutely stupid. I dunno, a cop who abuses the law or an idiot who thinks you should do as they tell you. I dunno which is worse.

 

Abuse can be a strong word. It's more a mindset that of authority combined with an imbalanced familiarity with the law, like being neighbors with a litigious tort attorney. They do work on the crumbling edges of the legal code sometimes, but it can seriously impact their interactions with regular citizens

On the other hand security guys are almost universally terrible.

 

Some big law experts ITT. Man, I never knew freedom of speech went out the window when you were talking to someone in uniform. (Actually, as a practical matter we all know damn well it does, since most folks with power of force will abuse it if pissed off. But as a legal matter it's pretty easy for y'all to sign away that use of a right if you don't think you personally would ever backtalk a cop.)

Heh. Way to cool it down by demanding a group of people react how you want them to react.

I am mainly interested in this story as a First Amendment issue than a racial incident, but you (and a lot of others) basically seem to be saying "Well of course he's not a racist. Some of his best friends..."