***The Great Debate: Creation vs Evolution***

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Darth_Viper81, Aug 1, 2003.

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  1. Darth_Viper81 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2003
    star 4
    I've skimmed over the first five pages looking for this topic and couldn't find it. If there is a debate already in progress, please point me there and I'll lock.

    Anyways, I was just wondering if we could get some good discussion about our origins as people. Since this discussion usually boils down to creation vs evolution, I've went ahead and titled the thread that.

    So, here's your chance to post your thoughts on where we came from. Whether it be Big Bang, Evolution, Creation, etc. Whatever you hold to be true in your belief.

    Locked due to behavior problems.
  2. Princess_Tina Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 6
    In the beginning, there was a Big Bang. And that's where everything in the Universe started.
  3. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I believe in the Big Bang.

    I believe in evolution.

    I also believe God is the one who started them.




    Anata baka?!
  4. Darth_Viper81 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2003
    star 4
    Allow me to re-post some problem I have with evolution. I posted this on a discussion board for a class in Anthropology that I am currently taking.

    I always get a kick out of evolution/creation debates.
    They usually end up violent. *S*

    Anyways, although I am not a christian myself, I do come
    from a very heavy christian background. I've heard alot
    of evidence from both sides of this arguement. I've
    read alot of good debates and alot of really bad
    debates.

    I've also found out through this class that I had some
    misconceptions about evolution. I was one of those who
    thought that Darwin believed that we descended from
    monkeys directly rather than sharing a common ancestor.

    I don't even want to think that I know where we came
    from or how we got here. However, I do have some
    problems with evolution.

    First, evolution explains where we as humans and animals
    come from, yet it does nothing to explain where that
    first single-celled organism came from.

    Second, being in engineering, I've encountered some
    "laws" (or theories if you will) of physics that seem,
    in my opinion, to contradict evolution. The main one, I
    think, is the Law of entropy. Entropy, in simple
    language, is the degree of disorder in the universe.
    Meaning that, if left alone, things will always go from
    good to bad to worse, etc. Evolution, on the other
    hand, seems to be saying the exact opposite. The way I
    understand it, is that we are constantly evolving into
    higher life forms--or increasing good. Survival of the
    fittest.

    Finally, to remark on a comment made in class about
    layers of evidence and that what is oldest is deepest.
    The statement was made that if the earth was created in
    six days, then all of the animal bones and everything we
    know now would be in the same layer--and that is not the
    case.

    To remark on this, I would say that I think there are
    some misconceptions about creation as well. Most people
    think that creationists believe that the earth was
    created out of nothing about 6000 years ago. I don't
    believe that this is the case. If you read in Genesis,
    the first couple of chapters you find two really
    different accounts of creation. The most striking thing
    I've found is that "God" tells "Adam" to multiply and
    REPLENISH the earth. The word replenish means to
    "re-fill". If the earth was just created, how could he
    "re-fill" something that has never been filled to begin
    with???

    That is where I come back to the layer thing. Is it
    possible that there were multiple "creations"??? And
    with each successive destruction of society (most likely
    by meteors or natural causes) that evidence has been
    left throughout millions of years??

    I'm not saying that I particularly believe this, but it
    is just a point that creationists could use to counter
    the layer arguement.

    I've rambled on for too long. I'd just like to say that
    I personally don't know what I believe on the subject
    right now. Given a choice, I'd choose creation, because
    I do believe in a higher power. I just think we, as
    humans, tend to generalize and overlook many things to
    make our theories work. I don't think this debate will
    ever be concluded.

  5. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Have you looked through any of the numerous and lengthy Senate threads on this subject?
  6. Darth_Viper81 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2003
    star 4
    Like I said, I looked through the first five pages and ran a search on the words and didn't find anything.
  7. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    E VS C has been tossed in during a number of discussions, but I haven't seen a thread dedicated to this subject alone.


    Being one who follows E, I say that it's not as straight forward as it first appears. We're here because we 'Out Played, Out Matched, and Out witted' our competitors (Neanderthals et all) and have boogied on up the chain of life. (See 'Walking with Cavemen' on the Discovery channel.. brilliant series)

    Someday soon, we ourselves might get replaced... *gulp*
  8. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    The dolphins and the mice will take over.

    Or at least escape before the end comes.

    :p




    Anata baka?!
  9. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    Good topic, Darth_Viper81.

    Personally, I don't care where we came from because it doesn't change anything. But I'm all for a healthy discussion on the issue. :D

    I'd have to say that, given the limited evidence on both siades of the debate, neither can say for sure. Since both religion and science have the same ultimate premise unpinning all of their dogma (that being the "I really have no clue so let's just assume it's this for now." It's the simple mathmatical formula of "If X then Y.")

    If I had to choose between them, I'd have to say that I lean more towards the Creationist ideal. But that's with conditions. Like you said, I see no reason why they can't both be right. My idea of God is unlimited. Therefore I see no reason why God didn't start the whole ball rolling with the intent of things evolving. According to the Bible, we are encouraged to learn and grow - to change. This is its own form of evolution, if not the basis of evolution. We adapt and change. Evolution is so gradual as to be non-existant. But that doesn't mean it IS non-existant. Just because we can't see evolution at work doesn't nulify it's validity. We can't really see God at work either. We can only believe.

    So, I belive that we do evolve and we are Children of God. Where exactly we evolved from, I leave up to people better qualified to say. But, again, I don't really care. I can see the validity of evolution and believe that we do evolve as a species. If any species doesn't evolve, it dies out. That's has proven true. I can see the validity of Creationism, too. Since we can't ever say for certain what really happened and the facts of there being life at all is such an astronomical improbability, I belive that what I think of as God, the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being that is the Architect of All is the ultimate genesis, the Alpha and Omega. I don't see why they can't exist together.

    My idea of creation is that there wasn't a point in some distant past where creation first started. Creation, to me, is like an infinite wave. It is at the crest of this wave that creation exists, ever moving in the eternal Now, ever rolling forward with change. Creation is NOW. Evolution is NOW. What's the real difference? God is creating NOW, everything, everyone. That sounds like evolution. ;)

    EDIT: I think the cockroaches are going to evolve and take over. Ther's nothing we can throw at them to stop them. LOL A big Raid bomb, maybe. But I'm starting to think that they actually eat that stuff for breakfast.
  10. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The "great debate" continues to be one of the most uninteresting debates out there. Religion will survive where it does not try to impose its will on science. Where religion attempts to intervene, it always comes out the loser - because wherever it pins its credibility on locking down a scientific truth, it will inevitably undermine itself.

    A religion that says: "whatever science reveals to us makes God's universe that much richer" -- that is the religion to follow.
  11. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    I think creationism and evolutionism can co-exist peacefully as long as people understand that the Bible is not meant to be literally translated.

    Evolution shows that things did happen basically in the order that the Bible has them happening, but they just didn't happen in seven days. They happened over millions of years. So if we can believe that a day to God does not mean twenty-four hours, we can accept both theories.
  12. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    Well said. Both of you. ;)
  13. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Bah, religion has no clue. Not a single clue. Religion keeps changing and altering their answer based on what science says. It's sort of silly.
  14. Jedi_Xen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 4
    Bah, religion has no clue. Not a single clue. Religion keeps changing and altering their answer based on what science says. It's sort of silly.

    Both are clueless arent they? Neither can PROVE anything, both only have theories, and absolutley NO proof.
  15. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Yes, Xen, but which theories have more evidence to back them up? I think that's what we have to look at.
  16. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Actually theory in scientific terms doesn't mean "guess" there are all sorts of theories out there, that the Earth revolves around the sun, that's a theory too. Just clarifying. ;)
  17. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The earth..."revolves"...around the...SUN???

    Tell us more of these "theories" of yours.
  18. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    ha ha haha.

    At least science doesn't pretend to be all-knowing, and at least science has credible evidence to back up it's claims.

    Believe whatever you want. I just find it curious that the Christian Church has been proven fallable so many times on matters of world history.
  19. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    This isn't a debate on religion, so please keep that in mind.
  20. scum&villainy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 4
    I'm going to up the old thread.

    That was a mammoth struggle between heroic galdiators. This lightweight thread dishonours the work of Peez, Darth_Brooks, vagrant et al.

    [edit

    KW/KK/Red can you unlock this?

    http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9008991&start=10069690


    In my mind, it's the greatest Senate thread of all time. In fact, it should be essential reading for all Senate newcomers.
  21. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Upping that thread would be like finding an old term paper and saying, "Gee, this is interesting" (which it's not) It's also like reading mini-essays in which the authors have already drawn their own conclusions and then it's just a case of upping the length of posts. MY GOD WHY DO YOU WANNA TORTURE US SO?! :p
  22. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    MY GOD WHY DO YOU WANNA TORTURE US SO

    I agree with FID on this issue.
  23. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    I see no evidence that evolution occurs. Adaptation, maybe, but not evolution.
  24. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Do you have any evidence that the world was created in seven days, JM_201, other than the Bible?
  25. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    No, but I see evidence for just about everything else in the Bible. That's my honest answer. ;)


    So, if I a) believe the God in the Bible is the true God, and b) believe that He inspired the REST of the Bible, then it stands to reason that the creation story in the Bible is true in my eyes.
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