***The Great Debate: Creation vs Evolution***

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Darth_Viper81, Aug 1, 2003.

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  1. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Double post due to some technical glitch dealing with a new page being started in this thread.

  2. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Vagrant,

    "Brooks, What happened to the mathematical impossibility or possibility of evolution? Can you tell us how we can calculate them?"


    Yes, what happened to that? Someone wrote it could be demonstrated, so I asked them to do so.

    So I ask Vagrant, why are you addressing me?


    I noticed you didn't answer the question.
    I noticed you didn't bother to admit you could not present the mathematical verification.
    I noticed you didn't ask the individual who made the statement to verify it is correct.
    I noticed the individual did not correct, clarify, or amend his/her statement and has twice ignored my question when presented.

    I could go on by reasonable extension to demonstrate the intellectual dishonesty implicit in such a tactic. Why bother? You are obviously comfortable.






    Ender_Sai,

    "It also says in the new rules that moderating is the job of moderators and only moderators, Darth Brooks."

    I wasn't moderating. I pointed out the rules. Quite frankly, I believe there's nothing against reminding members....or,

    Were you just moderating? Is this then a double-standard (hypocrisy)you are implementing towards me in your statement?

  3. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    Quote of the day


    Scientists around the world "armed with their best computer programs, competed to solve one of the most complex problems in biology; how a single protein, made from a long string of amino acids, folds itself into the intricate shape that determines the role it plays in life....The result, succinctly put, was this: the computers lost and the proteins won....Scientists have estimated that an average-sized protien, is made from 100 amino acids"- The New York Times

    Evolution does not answer the formation of:

    1)RNA molecules
    2)DNA molecules
    3)Proteins

    Complex gentic code doesn't just happen.
  4. Well_Of_Souls Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2001
    star 5
    "Evolution does not answer the formation of:

    1)RNA molecules
    2)DNA molecules
    3)Proteins

    Complex gentic code doesn't just happen."

    And, to my knowledge, evolution does not attempt to explain these things either.
  5. LadyElaine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 2
    Here's an interesting little spot I found in one of my recent Discover magazines:

    Computer programmers are now using the idea of evolution to create better products. The concept is being worked on so that, eventually, you'll be able to tell a computer, "Here's the components we can get, here's the cost of the components, now build me a [insert product here] that will work best for the lowest price."

    Basically, the computer creates virtual products which compete in a survival of the fittest mode, until the plans for the best product at the lowest price emerges.
  6. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Evolution does not answer the formation of:

    1)RNA molecules
    2)DNA molecules
    3)Proteins


    Didn't see those explained in the creation story either.
  7. Iron_Fist Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2003
    star 5
    Err... I'm pretty sure that there's nothing in the Bible about DNA, proteins, and so on. ;)

    And complex genetic code doesn't just happen. It starts at the bottom and goes up. That's what evolution is about. ;)
  8. Ki-Adi Bundi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2000
    star 4
    Err... I'm pretty sure that there's nothing in the Bible about DNA, proteins, and so on

    And there is a very good reason to be so. Think with me: if people today have a hard time understand Evolution, how do you think it would be in the biblical times? Do you think that God would come to Moses and explain to him with genetic and biochemical terms how life formed and evolved?
  9. Iron_Fist Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2003
    star 5
    IIRC, the Bible says that all things were created by God, not evolved over million of years ;)
  10. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    The Bible also says that bats are birds, that rabbits chew cud, and that Pi is 3.
  11. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    I like how everybody admits evolution can't explain DNA and RNA and Protiens, thats good.

    Creation does-God designed them and then created them.

    Yes gentic code was created, just like every house you see has a builder and a designer, so does life on this planet.

    It really is that simple, but intellectuals
    want to make it complicated and confusing.
  12. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Where does it say in the Bible that genetic code was created?
  13. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    It's assumed. ;)


    Truth is, the Bible does make a passing mention of certain aspects of science, but usually no more than that. The reason, in my opinion, is that God wanted us to discover things for ourselves.
  14. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Yeah, that's it. It couldn't be that the people who wrote the Bible couldn't tell a bird from a bat, much less begin to comprehend evolution.

    What aspects of science does the Bible mention?
  15. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    It's interesting how people will take the Bible at face value when it suits them but then have the Bible assume other things that aren't there--in other words, allow the Bible to be interpreted--also when it suits them, but not when it doesn't.
  16. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    The thing that first comes to mind is a passage in either Psalms or Proverbs in which the "paths of the sea" (currents) are mentioned. Another place mentions the "orb of the earth".


    a_g, the Bible does have certain things that require interpretation. But if everything is kept in context, it's easy to see what requires interpretation and what doesn't. It's also easy to see what is meant to be symbollic, what's meant as metaphor, and what is supposed to be taken literally.
  17. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    I believe the four corners of the Earth are also mentioned. Since when do orbs have corners? Could it be, shock of shocks, horror of horrors, that different parts of the the Bible was written by different authors?

    As for ocean currents, those have been known since humanity first sailed the seas, long before the Bible was written.
  18. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    That's true.


    As for the four corners of the earth, I suppose, for poetry, it wouldn't be uncommon to use certain descriptions of the world which are known to be false. We still say the sun rises. Obviously it doesn't.


    But to call the earth an orb when the rest of the world says it's flat is pretty impressive IMO.
  19. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    But if everything is kept in context, it's easy to see what requires interpretation and what doesn't. It's also easy to see what is meant to be symbollic, what's meant as metaphor, and what is supposed to be taken literally.

    But who decides?
  20. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    The authors. As I said, everything should be taken in context. Every passage, every word.


    There are certain things that leave a little room for interpretation, even when taken in context, but most of it is pretty straightforward, such as the Law and the historic accounts.


    Prophecy, poetry, and a few other aspects are where the biggest amount of interpretation come in. Even then, there are hints all over the place of what they actually means. You just have to be willing to look deeply.
  21. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    "But to call the earth an orb when the rest of the world says it's flat is pretty impressive IMO."

    The entire world didn't believe the world was flat at the time.
  22. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    Most of it did. At the very least - I know there were more areas than this - everyone around the ancient Hebrews believed it.
  23. dustchick Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 1
    But to call the earth an orb when the rest of the world says it's flat is pretty impressive IMO.

    Just being a stickler here, but the ancient Greeks certainly knew the world was round. Around 240 BCE, Eratosthenes even estimated the radius of the Earth to within less than 10% error of the current accepted value,if I recall correctly.

    So, was the "orb" a bit of scientific knowledge contained in the Bible, or was it just a poetic reference?
  24. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    But if everything is kept in context, it's easy to see what requires interpretation and what doesn't. It's also easy to see what is meant to be symbollic, what's meant as metaphor, and what is supposed to be taken literally.

    And different people come up with different interpretations. One of mine being that the Great Creator did not create the Earth in seven 24-hour periods.
  25. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    Actually Isaiah in 40:22 tells us the earth is a circle (round) way before people knew this was a fact about 700 BCE.

    So the bible does have some scientific facts in it if you just search them out.
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