Oceania The Great Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by UmmYep, Mar 21, 2002.

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  1. UmmYep Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2001
    star 3
    Is this the right room for an arguement?
    Yes it is. Right here, Right now, I give you the Great Debate thread!

    In this thread I will debate, with myself if necessary, the Pros and Cons of any argument somebody chooses to throw at me.

    Feel free to come in and Share your Views on the subject CURRENTLY on debate.

    I would ask tho, that noone get shouted down for sharing their views, unless you have a valid arguement against said views.

    Are we ready?? Okay, Would someone like to give me a topic to argue?
  2. wedge3210 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 1999
    star 5
    So... what is the subject?
  3. UmmYep Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2001
    star 3
    Thats what I am asking people for... I can make one up if there isnt any suggested soon, but I'd prefer others...
  4. Jacques_Cousteau Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 1
    Is Australias Treatment of Asylum Seekers Justified?

    Will that do gentlemen?
  5. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    Um, I'd suggest something a little less heated and personal ... something like a topic of:
    "That dogs are better than cats."
  6. Jacques_Cousteau Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 1
    Thats slly though, everyone knows dogs are better
  7. UmmYep Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2001
    star 3
    I'd prefer the Dogs and Cats topic, will hopefully not get as toasty...

    Anyway, "That Dogs are better than Cats" it is...

    I, UmmYep, will lead the affirmative team...
  8. UmmNope Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    And I, UmmNope, will lead the Negative team, assuming noone else wants to...
  9. Jacques_Cousteau Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 1
    *sniff*
    who's sock is that i can smell
  10. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    I'd offer, but I love both cats and dogs. :(

    Any other takers?
  11. mauls-menace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2000
    star 4
    I like both as well, so that counts me out.
  12. Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2001
    star 6
    I can give you a great debating topic, hell a proverbial plethora of them.

    how about this?

    Computers have done to Education what McDonalds has done to food.

    Hmm...So who wants Affirmative and who Negative? Don't anyone dare make this a definition debate! ;)
  13. UmmYep Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2001
    star 3
    We'll keep that one in reserve, We've got a topic... :)

    And I dont like dogs, but I can argue for them as better than cats... :)

    First point in Dogs favour... They can be trained.

    2) They come when called.

    3) They accept that you are their master

    That'll do for now...
  14. UmmNope Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2002
    HEH! you think that dogs are really better??
    nup...

    1) A cat has a personality

    2) Dogs are stupid!!

    3) Kittens are cuter than puppies...

    4) A cat KNOWS he is the master...

    Back to you Yep...


  15. Syrix_Kahl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2001
    star 4
    Okay, I'm butting in here. If you're going to have a debate, you might as well have it against someone other than yourself.

    I'll take the Negative side, despite the fact that I do indeed like both animals.

    --
    The topic of debate is: "That dogs are better than cats." Despite the fact that the affirmative did not offer definition, I believe that the topic is quite clear to everyone involved.

    We, as the negative, have broken down the criteria for a "better pet" into two main categories: cost and affection. I will be discussing cost, my second speaker will be discusiing affection.

    Cost itself, can be broken down further, into time and money. Both of which are important to us, as humans. Fortunately, cats require us to spend little of both, as opposed to dogs, which require much larger amounts of both.

    Time. Cats do not vie for affection the way a dog does, and whilst my second speaker will cover this in more detail, I will briefly point out that this means we don't have to spend our time with the cat when we could be doing more important things, like posting on FanForce, or ordering back issues of Woman's Day, or saving the world. We will also see that time spent on cats ties in with money.

    Speaking of which, does not have to be spent quite so much on a cat. Whilst such things as food and a collar must be purchased for both dogs and cats, more money must be spent on dogs buying washing products, as dogs do not clean themselves, as cats do. And vetenarians charge more for a 'consultation' with a dog than a cat. This, coupled with the fact that dogs need to be taken to the vet more often than cats shows quite clearly that dogs will require much more money to be spent on them than cats.

    Now, to the matter of rebutting UmmYep's slap-dash "case" as the affirmative first speaker.

    He stated that "they come when called", which of course, is equally true of cats.

    He also declared that "they accept that you are their master." Obviously this is an inherent weakness in dogs, to not contest power, to lie down and let someone else take control over them. I cannot see how this makes them a "better" animal. Cats on the other hand, like to show their strength of will by being independant of their owners. This is displayed in the fact that they can wash themselves, for a start, and also through their much practiced behaviour of not remaining within the confirms of a yard.

    As you can *clearly* see, ladies and gentlemen, cats are far superior to dogs. They are a far more cost-effective creature and are not weak-minded, as dogs are.
  16. opium Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 1999
    star 4
    Although responsibility usually lies with the owner of the pet, you are more likely to be mauled/attacked/scared/chased by a dog at some point in your wanderings than a pussy cat.
  17. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    I've received more scratches from my cat in 4 hours, than I have from my dog in three years.

    I miss my puppy. :(
  18. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    If a cat was a person, you'd hate them. Look at it, they're snooty, snobbish and self-involved. They always have that "I'm better than you" look on their little dweeby faces

    I hate cats [face_plain] Dogs forever
  19. Pigalek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 5
    I'm on the Negative Go CATS :D

    Not only to cats wash groom and pedicure themselves they are also very affectionate and lovable. They are very capable of looking after themselves and keep you company on those lonely nights :p

    And they are much smarter than Dogs they will come when called but the also can decide between doing and not doing.
    Just because a dog does what we want them too doesn't mean they are intelligent. Its the choice that matters
  20. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5


    Cats don't kill small children. Or big children. Or adults.



    Yes, they kill the occassional native bird, but hey - try arguing that killing wildlife isn't as bad as mauling a kid to death.


    And dogs kill native animals, too.


    So fnah!
  21. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    Cats don't kill small children. Or big children. Or adults

    No, they just scratch the heck out of them

    Dogs don't kill people, their stupid owners do
  22. kahli Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2000
    star 5
    Yes, they kill the occassional native bird, but hey - try arguing that killing wildlife isn't as bad as mauling a kid to death.

    Do you value one life over another just because of it's form? I mean, it's not as if people are in danger of extinction which is more than can be said for so many of our native creatures.

    If kids weren't left alone with dogs, and dog owners were more responsible with their animals then would this be such a problem?

    Speaking as someone who has lived with a dog who could very well hurt people, and never has (because we are sensible and take precautions) it is more than obvious it is human error that costs kiddies lives (not the kiddies, the owners and the parents).

    As for the debate? Dogs, definately. I enjoy the companionship of an animal that could turn and you and kill you, but loves you so it doesn't.

    Cats just make me sneeze.
  23. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    Dogs love you

    Cats love themselves
  24. Sith-Gecko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 4
    Having owned both a dog and a cat, I know both sides. However, I prefer dogs in general as animals. Here is my arguement:

    A canine, despite popular belief, has superior intelligence to a feline. One has only to compare the sophisticated social makeup of a pack of wolves or jackals to the violent survival-of-the-fittest structure of a pride of Lions.
    The common mistake is made of believing that because cats do their own thing, they are more intelligent than dogs, when in fact cats do so because their instincts are to surive for itself. A dog has an inbuilt pack hierachy instinct, and will look up to it's human "master" to be the alpha individual of the pack - an intelligent leader to follow. It has often been the case when a dog isn't obediant that the cause is because pack hierachy hasn't been established, therefore the dog automatically assumes alpha position.

    Another element of this debate would not be merely whether dogs make better pets than cats - which of course they do, as their general temprement and inbuilt loyalty complex makes canines in general a far more agreeable companion animal than cats - but whether the animal is useful to human society.
    One never sees cats in use at airports to sniff out illicit drugs and/or explosives. This is because it is impossible to train a cat beyond simple name recognition and house-habits, such as toilet training (which, I might add, a dog picks up at a faster rate than a cat). Dogs have a highly developed sense of smell, and brreds such as the German Shepherd (a common brred to be used for police work) can sense a single molecule of a particular drug in the air. Dogs can be trained easily to identify and signal a handler - this is again because of the obediance instinct that tells an individual that it's superiors know better, and must be obeyed.
    Seeing eye dogs, police dogs, rescue dogs - dogs have even been trained to deliver a small load in a war zone, and to detect landmines using their sense of smell. Can a cat do any of these things? No. Because a cat's intelligence and learning capability aren't superior enough for them to be able to master tasks above pooping in the right place. A cat only looks out for number one - survival of itself is all that matters. Is such an instinctively self-centred animal really superior to the loyalty and devoted friendship of a canine? Certainly not.

    Dogs that have attacked their owner or other people only do so because their size enables them to effectively injure someone severely. Such incidents are usually a result of the owner not taking the correct precautions for that particular breed (and there are very few breeds that ever develop temperamental problems that lead to violence) and in incorrect training. Effectively, a dog that attacks others has developed "cat-instinct", and no longer abides by the typical canine loyalty instinct. An abnormally violent dog develops the same instincts as a cat, and decides only to look out for itself, therefore anyone standing in the way is seen as a threat.

    Cats have unpredictable temperaments, and were they canine sized (such as lions are) they would be a threat to humanity. their aggressive instincts and lack of tolerance for other individuals would certainly make them a threat, and the only reason that people never hear of a feline attack on a human is simply because a cat is too small to effectively cause any signifigant injury. Just look at the way that when a cat has finished with the affection of a human, without a single signal, it will bite or claw the hands/legs/face of the human in question, and jump off their lap. Hardly affectionate - whereas a dog has patience enough to tolearate the affection until the human is finished, and then peacefully leave.

    The evidence is quite clear - dogs truly are better than cats.
  25. TheOzhaggis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 5

    Dogs don't hurt you because they love you?

    Um, no.

    Dogs don't hurt you because you feed them. They hurt you, they don't get fed.

    Hence the saying, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you.."

    Dogs are wild animals. Anyone who thinks they are domesticated and love them is living in the same kind of denial as a southern plantation owner who thinks his slaves are friendly and love him and wouldn't hurt him.

    They're just waiting for a chance.

    America today: woman and her husband charged with 2nd degree murder and manslaughter when their dogs (now classed as lethal weapons) mauled their female neighbour to death in their apartment hallway.


    BTW - just for the record - this is a yet another touchy subject for me - hence, I might be a tad ... passionate in my responses.

    Cheers.
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