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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit The Great River - The problem with the "the new EU"... A haven for Legends fans.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Kypsolo, Sep 29, 2014.

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  1. Skywalker2B

    Skywalker2B Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2000
    Cush, perhaps you are right. Maybe they wouldn't do it for free, but probably for less than others are getting paid now. ;) Have I crossed a line here? *shrug* I don't know. I did put a /rant at the end, so that's what it was...just a rant from a person that isn't quite happy with the current goings on. Some days I hear/read rumors that sound like everything we thought was SW is not being completely ignored...and then other days (like today)...well...you get the picture.
     
  2. Skywalker2B

    Skywalker2B Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2000
    From ESB:
    BEN
    If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone. I cannot interfere.


    Me: Here’s a continuity error I guess the SG missed. In Marvel’s SW#1 (and #2…haven’t read or seen it yet, just assuming), Luke confronts Vader…seemingly for the first time since seeing him kill Ben on the Death Star. Ben, through the force, tells Luke to “Run!” Hmm…isn’t that sort of interfering?

    From RotJ:
    LUKE
    Master Yoda, you can't die.

    YODA
    Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!

    Me: Does this imply that if someone is stronger in the Force that they can’t die? Will this be something we "find out" in the NEU?

    As for what Luke does...I went to look at the things Yoda and Ben tell Luke in RotJ. Yoda tells him: "...Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned..." Later we find out Yoda is talking about Leia. So Yoda is telling Luke, after 900 hundred years, to continue the Jedi, to continue the Skywalker jedi...to train his sister.

    I've read here about arguments that Luke went against Yoda and Ben by defeating Vader (or rather the Emperor) with the love of his father. They contend that Yoda and Ben wanted Luke to kill Vader. Even Luke tells Ben that he can't kill his father, so obviously he also thinks they want him to kill Vader. But look at what Yoda tells Luke in ESB: "...A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." Then in RotJ he tells Luke: "...One thing remains: Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be. And confront him you will." Notice that he says "confront". That doesn't necessarily mean kill or attack...especially if he previously said that a jedi does not use the force for attack. I contend that Yoda was not telling Luke to attack and kill Vader, but to just oppose what Vader is doing...trying to turn Luke to the dark side. Luke does that, showing Vader that it can be done.

    Ben also tells Luke that Yoda will always be with him when Luke says that he can't go on alone...as the last jedi. This tells me that Yoda will be there to help Luke train his sister...and eventually more jedi.
     
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  3. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The subject has certainly been debated a lot - and different authors have different opinions. However, there's at least one Lucas quote which is strongly suggestive of "Luke redeeming Vader" actually being Yoda & Ben's plan:

    "The part I am working on now is mostly about Darth Vader, who he is, where he came from, how he became Luke and Leia's father, what his relationship to Ben is. In Jedi, the film is really about the Redemption of this fallen angel. Ben is the fitting good angel, and Vader is the bad angel who started off good. All these years Ben has been waiting for Luke to come of age so that he can become a Jedi and redeem his father. That's what Ben has been doing, but you don't know this in the first film."
    --George Lucas
    The Annotated Screenplays (Laurent Bouzerou), 1997
     
  4. Praenomen Cognomen

    Praenomen Cognomen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2013

    [face_waiting]

    Even further reducing the mean income of writers purely for the benefit of the multi-billion-dollar license-holders? Yeah, no. I don't care how garbage the writing is... ideas like this devalue the work of all writers.

    The only tradeoff to living under corporatism? Folks get ******' paid for their work.
     
  5. Skywalker2B

    Skywalker2B Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2000
    Hey, PC, could you perhaps change your avatar? Every time I see it and read your comments I get the impression that you're yelling at everyone. ;)
     
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  6. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    PC don't change your avatar, that scene was played perfectly and I like being reminded of it.
     
  7. Skywalker2B

    Skywalker2B Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2000
    PC and/or DD, what is that from anyway?
     
  8. Good_News_Nobody

    Good_News_Nobody Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Inherent Vice?
     
  9. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    Yep, Inherent Vice. I loved that movie.
     
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  10. Good_News_Nobody

    Good_News_Nobody Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Haven't seen it. Probably never will, unless it's on TV. I only watched review on RedLetterMedia (the ones that made Mr. Plinkett review of Star Wars PT ).
     
  11. Praenomen Cognomen

    Praenomen Cognomen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2013
    From the brief bit of that review I watched, they don't seem to have much of a clue of the detective film tradition it was built on. But hey, live life by reviews if you want---no skin off my buns. I don't think of myself as someone with an average perspective, so personally I have little use for reviews. I basically check to see if something is an absolute across the board flop, but that's it.
     
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  12. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    2B, Why should it be about money anyway? To me it should be about integrity and love of the universe. I didn't say you crossed a line I said I think you assume much. Do you have cause, probably, but it doesn't mean what you asserted would fit everyone.

    I likewise did note /rant at the end. Sorry if you believed otherwise.

    Yes, I know exactly how it is. :) I can empathise. Yet, not all disagreement is adversarial.

    Yeah, fictional it is but 35+ years of history is no easy feat and yes for some us it smarts that those in power are ignoring/mishandling what we love. [:D]
     
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  13. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000

    Yes, it is interfering. And when it comes time for the ESB duel he can no longer interfere, for reasons. Reasons that may get explained.

    My experience watching it was much different from their experience.
     
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  14. Skywalker2B

    Skywalker2B Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2000
    *nods* I agree. I think that is why I added that I would exclude Luceno from my rant. I see him as someone that loves the EU, which he helped build, just as much as most of us. The fact that LFL/Del Rey hired him to write a NEU novel was one of the high points (referencing my comments about being on a roller coaster) for me. Before, we were hearing that authors of the NEU, and even towards the end of EU, were being chosen because they had only seen the movies and hadn't really read any EU stories. It was like they didn't want the new authors to be "tainted" by the EU. Luceno was proof that it wasn't the case, that they did intend to use the EU stuff to some extent.

    Before someone says something, I'm not saying that those authors that have only seen the movies don't love the SW universe, just that if all they were exposed to was the movies then they love only a small part of the SW universe. I would say that most SW fanfic writers really love the SW universe and that is what drives them to write stories. Love of the material. Love of the SW story. NOT motivation by being paid to write a story in the SW universe.
    Let's not forget though, that LFL, Del Rey, and Marvel (etc.) are all for-profit companies. One of the ways that they make money is to pay authors to write SW stories. I know this, so my comments before were just a rant and not meant to be taken seriously as even a remote possibility. If I slighted any "working" (meaning that's what you do to earn a living) writers, I do humbly apologize.

    Dude, I totally read this hearing Nute Gunray saying it. ;)

    To quote Yoda: "So certain are you?"

    Do they, the Story Group, even realize that it's a conflict of continuity? If so, then I might agree with you that they have a "fix" in mind already. If not, well...
    And speaking of continuity conflicts, does anyone think that, in RotJ, Leia telling Luke that she has memories of her "real" mother despite Padme dying right after their birth in RotS will be explained? (Read: retconned)

    For some reason, this really bothers me. To me, it's like GL didn't even bother watching RotJ before making RotS.
     
  15. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    as much as i am liking the new comics, they do skate the edge on continuity. Are they aware of that? They have to care about this if they are going to re-create a believable universe
     
  16. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    JJM wrote a NEU novel too, just because he's not a hardcore continuity pornographer I feel he's being neglected in discussions. But then, he writes stories that are more than continuity references strung together...

    And no, I'm not certain the SG has a fix, but I'm not going to doubt them off the bat. That's unproductive negative thinking. Also, we've noticed it. Someone is probably going to tell them on Twitter and they'll probably end up addressing it. Social Media FTW!
    And yeah, that scene in RotS bugs me too. For shame GL...
     
  17. Skywalker2B

    Skywalker2B Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2000
    Darth_Duck, excellent point about JJM. I totally forgot that he wrote A New Dawn. And I loved his Kenobi book (although I wish he would have had Qui-Gon reply at least once)!

    Also a good point about the SG. I really do hope that you are right and they do "fix" it. I think my unstated underlying point is that what I really hope is that the SG would be better at preventing these conflicts from even happening. I thought that was part of the reason for their existence.
     
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  18. Dante1120

    Dante1120 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2006
    The only reason he didn't have Qui-Gon reply was, in Legends, Qui-Gon spoke to Exile!Obi-Wan for the first time after the events of Dark Lord. That said, I'd love to read a JJM written Qui-Gon.

    As for the story group, well, we'll have to wait and see.
     
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  19. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000

    Well, the EU had Ben possessing Luke in SotME (in an awkward retcon). Having him shout "run!" is far less bizarre in light of ESB. Especially since Ben was talking to Luke during the trench run with Vader on his tail. He's already interfered with a Luke and Vader encounter.
    And since TTT had Obi-Wan fading away, it's not strange to me to think Obi-Wan had more influence on the living world shortly after death and there was a gradual fade-out. Maybe this time around we find out that interacting with Luke in the presence of the Dark Side drains him and he loses his connection to the living world quicker. I don't know. But I think it's way to soon to lose faith. On this point, at least.
     
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  20. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Luke does not seem to have a gradual fade out in Legacy. So is Legacy comics still canon? if not how will Luke die now? Will he still be a long lasting force ghost?
     
  21. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    No, of course Legacy isn't canon. Nothing from before A New Dawn is canon. If you want to know Luke's fate there's this movie coming out in December that might hold some clues.

    We didn't get to find out how Luke died in the EU. We just knew he was dead.
     
  22. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Technically we don't even know that - while I don't know if it's ever been officially stated, I've seen people theorize that one reason why it was never established whether Luke in Legacy was a real Force ghost or just Cade tripping/hallucinating was so it wasn't certain that Luke had actually died.

    Which sounds ridiculous, but there have been dumber things in the EU.
     
  23. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    Yeah, I wasn't going to touch those theories, but I find it strangely believable that Cade was just straight trippin'
    Luke was probably off exiled after K'krukh (and his hat) and T'ra Saa showed up and said "You're doing it wrong, we need to go back to the ways that got 99% of us killed. That's what works!"
     
  24. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I'd suggest it's more due to AND being placed in a chronologically barren era, there was nothing for it to really contradict! Plus, the more excellent a work is, the less it tends to be discussed!

    Quite seriously, why is there a need to know at all?
     
  25. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    I am more concerned of him dying too early if anything
     
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