PT The great things about AOTC

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by d_arblay, Mar 12, 2011.

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  1. jedislayer5000 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2010
    star 1
    i love this film in too many ways to put in words, and it makes me sick when i hear all the negative comments towards it
  2. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4

    I've said it before and I'll say it again....

    The last 5 minutes of AoTC is cinema in it's purest form.

  3. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Thanks, d_arblay. I went a bit wild yesterday, didn't I?

    I'll try and keep it brief this time, but I just used that deadly word: try. Uh oh!

    Episode II
    Attack Of The Cryo

    Here he goes again...

    Part 1

    Speaking of that remark, it's quite amusing: Anakin is in focus through the sharp digital lens, but he's not focusing on the negative. There is no negative. He, or rather, Hayden Christensen's visage, was captured on a CCD and transferred to hard disk. Just thought I'd get that super-nerdy remark out the way. :p

    Yes. I wanted to say a bit more about this. In particular, I wanted to highlight the end of their "lecture", as Anakin calls it, when Obi-Wan tells Anakin his senses aren't as attuned, which sparks Anakin into snapping back, "And yours are?", and Obi-Wan's classic retort: "Possibly!" That little turn and pause before Ewan speaks is awesome. And the line cracks me up something rotten.

    Now, see, you've just reminded me of something else I wanted to say: it's a ruddy good job George Lucas is a filmmaker and not a politician. I have to constantly remind myself that he wrote all of Palpatine's dialogue. George Lucas is a scary man. Brilliant. And scary. This line is both Orwellian and beyond that. Look how easy it is for Palpatine to use the truth in a deceptive way.

    Also was going to mention this. Awesome. I love it when Threepio is castigating Artoo and leaves the ship to chase after him. "Idiot!" Simple, but perfect. This is also Threepio's first adventure on another world. See, even he has a hero's journey.

    Not to make a LOTR bash -- yeah, okay, to make a LOTR bash -- but this Christopher Lee performance is actually a bit more dignified and subtle. Lee is terrific in LOTR, for my money (I can't think of a time he hasn't been), yet he's saddled with a larded-up version of Saruman that lacks the control and cunning of the one in the books. I also think Lee looks better with shorter, slicked-back hair. And he truly lives up to his character's "Tyranus" appellation with a princely way about him. Like the hair, the costume helps. That cape! That chain! The boots. Ah! I don't even dare to mention that curved lightsaber hilt (oops!). I also like the vampiric subtext because it's Christopher Lee. Dooku is draining the blood out of the Republic. It even works down to the Republic's official colour: maroon red. Having Lee in this picture, in this role, walking amongst gothic catacombs no less, adds to the feeling that there is something unholy about the Separatist movement. We know what it is. This is a most unnatural state of affairs in Star Wars, perhaps (though, sadly, a disappointingly common one in our own societies). I've also always thought that "Sith" is a damn good name for thi
  4. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Part 2

    That grasping of his hand is such a great visual. It elevates Star Wars into a very poetic place (as if, for me, and for us all, it wasn't there already). Now this, coming right at the end of the film, means you can't run or hide from it. You're being encouraged -- though not harangued -- to confront something immutable here. And, of course, the shot brilliantly encapsulates the whole mechanical-organic motif -- nay, construct! -- of this space opera. Couldn't be better.

    Zing! There's so much detail in these movies, isn't there?

    I think Lucas tied up so much stuff in the PT that there might well be little left. As intriguing as the idea of a "sequel trilogy" is, I don't know if it will come to pass.*

    *Sequel trilogies pass in time.

    Thanks for inputting this. I'm not entirely sure adding the Imperial March in full to the prequels was an entirely good idea. This is going to make me sound like such a philistine, but maybe Lucas should just have let John Williams do his own thing, or at least trust in his own views on this matter? After all, JW wired the Imperial March into Anakin's Theme, but he did it in a very tentative (albeit suggestive) way. I can understand us getting the Emperor's Theme in the PT, but maybe the Imperial March should have been saved for TESB? This is one issue I must admit I'm conflicted on.

    Cheers, Stamp. I don't "really know the movies", but I appreciate the sentiment. All art, when you get right down to it, is infinitely complex. I am reminded of Carl Sagan's immortal statement: "if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe". But I guess I just prefer the lyricism of Star Wars. This is one apple pie that's so good and crumbly and crazy-sweet to me.

    It's not just you. This is a very general statement that needs saying: visuals in Star Wars connect and inflect other visuals. Ones that are directly adjacent are intimately connected and inflected by definition. Bear this in mind when you next watch any of these movies. I really got it the last time I watched TPM. Holy cow.

    There's a lot one could say about this, but for my part, I'll just return to what I said about digital technology: the "pan up" indicates that we a
  5. Sinistron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Good to see "Speed Racer" get some positive recognition.

    By the way, the film shares the same cinematographer with the prequel trilogy, David Tattersall.

  6. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    There's a really Death Star-like musical moment (which is not only visually-orgasmic) when the camera flashes reflect off Speed's helmet after he wins the race. Must see. Can't say enough about it.
  7. skywalker_san Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2010
    star 1
    "Speed Racer" is a vastly underrated movie.
  8. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    Christensen's performance in the Homestead garage. The tonal shift covers all three iterations: gentle (TPM), pitiable (AOTC), and then, utterly terrifying (ROTS).

    ?And not just the men. But the women...and the children too! They're like animals! And I slaughtered them like animals! I hate them!?

    I've had the misfortune of seeing a few people in the throes of an honest-to-Christ rage, and let me tell you, Christensen nails it. He absolutely nails it. Just look into that kid's eyes.
  9. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 5
    ^ Yes, definitely agree with this (Hayden's portrayal of rage).

    As cheesy as they are, I also enjoy the speeder chases in Coruscant.

    I also like the scenes with Jango Fett, the scenes of the cloning facilities and clones on Kamino, and the two fights between Jango and Obi-Wan (first hand to hand, then ship to ship).

    And as I think others have mentioned, I also enjoy seeing the furthering of the relationship between R2 and C-3PO. They are becoming friends, but they also have their banter too ("idiot!").
  10. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    To me, it's more like: innocent (TPM), pitiable (AOTC) and utterly pathetic (ROTS). That's what makes it work, how the dark side doesn't wind up empowering Anakin, so much as it neuters him. Watching him during Palpatine's "coming out" scene, the way he limply holds up his lightsaber, it strikes a chord of impotence. Lucas doesn't have him revelling in his time as a newly christened Sith, or glorify his transformation into Vader, the way so many fanboys wanted to see. Anakin's rendered more like a petulant kid who didn't get invited to his own pity party, the kind of Columbine-style brat who hides behind his own bruised, self-inflated ego as a pretext for mass murder. His fall to the dark side isn't a tragic, graceful thing, but a decline into perhaps the worst thing you can be in the "Star Wars" saga-- a traitor.

    Most fans are obviously going to be uncomfortable with this kind of portrayal, but for my money it's pretty brave. I'd rank him only second to Shinji Ikari's shellshocked condition in "End of Evangelion" in terms of sheer sci-fi schadenfreude.
    -NaTaLie- likes this.
  11. Eternity85 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2008
    star 3
    Totally agree!

    AOTC is a great movie.. I really enjoy the Coruscant scenes. We get to see a little more of the planet, and the nightlife in the lower levels is great! And unlike most people i find the love scenes to be very good.. I have always supported AOTC, and will continue to do so whenever i have the chance.
  12. DarthSkeptical Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2001
    star 3
    I suppose what I respond to most whenever I've watched AOTC is the depiction of everyday life around the galaxy, but especially on Coruscant. Coruscant, in fact, is really the star of the episode. I never expected such a lingering look at the planet after it was established in Ep 1, and it's still breathtaking for me, even 8 years after the film was released. The "chase for Zam" sequence is possibly my favorite action sequence in the whole of the saga. Add into that the strikingly-different worlds of Geonosis and Kamino, and you have a film that truly expands the SWU in a way that didn't happen so much with, say, eps 1, 3 and 6. Ep 2 is, like ep 5, a visual feast, boldly making up new planets to which we were never before exposed, and for taking us to new, earthier parts of Coruscant and even Tatooine and Naboo. I think it's fair to say that we gain more knowledge about socio-cultural matters from ep 2 than any other ep.
  13. Blur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 1999
    star 4
    AOTC was fantastic, and is my second-favorite PT film. Here is my list:

    - Great opening sequence with the ship being destroyed on the Coruscant landing platform & Padme's double dying because of this - very dramatic, and from this beginning you knew that the film would be very dark.

    - The whole sequence with Zam Wesell trying to take out Padme and the subsequent chase over Coruscant - visually stunning, and this chase was definitely one of the most gripping, fast-paced scenes in the entire PT.

    - The scenes of the Coruscant nightclubs after Anakin landed on the lower levels and was looking for Zam Wessell - very interesting. I remember being interested about what these levels of Coruscant were like after first reading The Illustrated SW Universe art book by R. McQuarrie in the mid-1990's.

    - The scene when Obi-wan went to Kamino and observed all of the Clones fighting/training, etc. - very disturbing, and this was obviously a prelude of what was to come with the Clones taking over.

    - The sequence when Anakin finds his mother as she's dying, and his subsequent revenge on the Sandpeople. IMHO, this scene was expertly done not because of what we saw but because of what we didn't see - since you only saw a small portion of what Anakin did, what happened after that was left to the imagination.

    - Which leads me to Anakin's subesequent confession scene to Padme at the Lars homestead - this sequence is probably the best acting in the the whole PT. His description of what he did to the Sandpeople is horrific, and Anakin is clearly both enraged and also possibly guilty about his actions. Going along with my above comment, I would also argue that having Anakin describe what happened was much more powerful than it would have been to show what actually happened. In any case, this seems to be the beginning of his path to the dark side; and, this is also somewhat prophetic, because based on what we saw in TPM, Yoda and the other Jedi masters were concerned about training Anakin because of his attachment to his mother.

    - The entire battle sequence with the three monsters in the Geonosis arena, the arrival of the Jedi and the subsequent battle, and the ending battle when the Clones and Yoda arrived - truly superb. The very beginning of this sequence was especially memorable, with Anakin/Padme being led into the arean while the Genosian aliens yelled & cheered from the sidelines - this had a very obvious Gladiator vibe, while at the same time being uniquely SW.

    - Super Battle Droids - awesome! While the Battle Droids in TPM were cheap looking/sub-par for good reason, these Super Battle Droids with lasers built into their arms were chillingly efficient, and were a great progression/update to the normal BD's. One of my favorite scenes was during the arena battle when a Super Battle Droid knocked the normal Battle Droid aside, showing the obvious superiority of these newer and more dangerous models.

    - The ending sequences with the marriage of Anakin & Padme & the huge army of clone warriors all walking onto the ships while Bail Organa & others looked on - also very chilling, and a prelude of what was to come.
  14. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    I liked two things from AOTC:

    1. Obi-wan's fight with Jango Fett on Kamino.
    2. Zam Wessel

    That's about it.
  15. Eternity85 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2008
    star 3
    AOTC is the best teenage movie in the saga. I remember going to the theatre with my friends at age sixteen. Amazing experience! You will easily relate to Anakin and his troubles, and the journey will be magic.. definitely was for me.. Good times; will never forget it..
  16. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I love some of the subtle acting in AOTC. One of my favorite moments is when Padme clenches her hands after kissing Anakin, saying "I shouldn't have done that." It's a little moment that tells you a great deal about her disposition -- the rigidity, formality, and sexual repression that has characterized her life.

    I also appreciate when, in the balcony scene at the end of the film, Bail Organa presses his fist against the railing as he stares out over the assembled troops. It's one of the first indications that something has gone terribly wrong, which Bail will spend the rest of his life trying to correct through the Rebel Alliance.
  17. bluesaber70 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2007
    star 2
    1. Obi-Wan vs. Jango

    2. the last 45 min. of the movie.
  18. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Awesome observation! It also links the Padme character up with Palpatine (they're linked in any number of ways). Palpatine can be seen clenching a hand in a scene between him and Padme in TPM and again in a scene between him and Anakin in ROTS.

    Now, this isn't a bash, but I just want to highlight a line and a moment I consider to be, quite possibly, the goofiest moment in AOTC, and one of the goofiest moments in the saga. It's when Obi-Wan says, "Attack those Federation starships, quickly!"

    In my opinion, that line, and the way it's acted, is so, so, soooooooo silly. Yet, at the same time, it perfectly connects to what else is happening in the film, and the saga at large. Here we have a command being given from a "master" to a "slave", the command itself being an order for violence, and use of an adjective for speed/haste. It links up with some other lines in the PT. Notably, Padme's line to Palaptine in TPM, "We must do something quickly to stop the Federation", and Mace's to Anakin in ROTS, "We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive". Ominous stuff.

    And the cheesy relish with which Ewan McGregor says it. Think what context this is placed within: human actors filmed with digital cameras playing lofty warrior-monks who have gone to war and are riding in flying machines of death that are CG constructs flying through a CG environment. It strikes me as very cartoony or comic-book-like. Yet that colourful -- if not lurid -- dimension underscores the surrender to madness that the event of the Clone Wars and the Jedi's involvement with it signifies. Say it loud and say it with me: "Attack those Federation starships, quickly!"

    Also, I enjoy the sense that this is being jauntily said as an easy opportunity for attack suddenly presents itself in this moment of the film. Here are the Jedi, with all the toys of war all of a sudden, giving orders to CG soldiers -- clones -- who can basically do anything, since they're operating whatever the filmmaker gives them, and physical limitations need not apply (on the other hand, we do hear a trooper say, rather incongruously, that they're "out of rockets" when Anakin orders them to shoot Dooku down a short while later).

    It also seems to be a little send-up of criticisms of George Lucas' directing. The super-popular meme is that Lucas tells his actors, "Faster! More intense!" Well, here, we have a bearded thirty-something male directing an actor/group of actors -- CG elements, in effect -- to do something "quickly", even pointing at a position in the distance. Obi-Wan is almost the embodiment of the younger Lucas here. Throughout the picture, we also see Obi-Wan struggling to balance a looseness of style with the more stern requirements of his peers and superiors, so that his project, Anakin, will do right by both him and the Jedi Order. Also, in, I think, a ROTS web-doc for Obi-Wan, Lucas talks about how Obi-Wan begins as a pretty serious padawan learner, advances to a Jedi Knight and becomes a sophisticated Jedi Master; each of the prequel films depicting a new stage in Obi-Wan's development, as described by Lucas. Think about that for a second. And listen to the way he says "Jedi Master". Almost feels like there's a degree of internal pride to the way he describes Obi-Wan, as if describing himself (and before that seems too arrogant of Lucas, remember that Lucas shows that Obi-Wan still has plenty of room to grow). Well, it's a quirky idea, anyway.

    All in all, I guess I love this moment because it condenses so much and sparks my imagination -- what art is all about.
  19. LuciusVorenus Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2010
    The greatest thing about AOTC?? It happened at the 143 minute mark--At that point the movie ended and I was able to finally leave the theater and begin the long journey of trying to erase the memory of what I just saw. Oh the horror, horror!
  20. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    Y'see! I just knew it had something for everyone!





    .... trolls included.
  21. Mond Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2009
    star 3
    You're not going to "erase it from your memory". You are going to still be whining about it in 2030.
  22. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    Funny too that someone allegedly trying so hard to erase AOTC from their memory would not only visit a prequels message board, but specifically peruse and post within a thread entitled "The great things about AOTC" [face_thinking]
  23. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 5
    ^ Some people have weird ways of trying to forget things. :p
  24. DARTH_DEEZY Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 1
    what I like most about ATOC:

    1. we get to see that sith lightning is not unstoppable as Kenobi blocks it with his saber

    2. when Yoda and Dooku's sabers lock and Yoda says:"fought well you have my old padawan...but the darkside I sense in you"

    3. Any scenes with Jango Fett

    4. Palpatine reading Padme's mind and Yoda almost catching him

    5. Kenobi diving out the window to catch the assassin droid

    What I hate about ATOC:

    1. No millineum falcon Kessel run in under 12 parsecs (I hate this about all the PT movies)

    2. still no Han Solo at this point (I hate this about all PT movies)

    3. we don't see Darth Sidious until the end of the movie

    4. Anakin's assult on the Tuskens is not shown completely

    5. the speeder Anakin leaves the moisture farm on should have been the speeder Luke drove in ANH (the one that looks like a car)

    6. no force ghost version of Qui-Gon even though he speaks to Anakin, we should have had a force ghost in the PT IMO
  25. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    Ummm, wrong thread.
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