The Gusher's Supplemental to the Basher's Sanctuary.

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Go-Mer-Tonic, Apr 10, 2002.

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  1. PruneF8ce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2002
    star 4
    and music blaring through every damn scene.

    Er, I hope that wasnt a crack at me because thatd be completely erroneous.
  2. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Once again, it has nothing to do with being a "devoted" fan. It has to do with patience more than anything else.

    Stone Jedi: "There's no deciding whether you like a movie or not, there's just the knee-jerk reaction that unconsciously hits you after you've seen it that determines your feelings."

    Yeah but what if your knee-jerk reactions were wrong?

    I am not suggesting you force anything.

    Just allow yourself to enjoy it.
  3. Hatter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 4
    I agree.
    The time I enjoyed TPM the most was when I just let myself forget all the criticisms, and just sat back and had fun.
  4. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah but what if your knee-jerk reactions were wrong?

    Can you please explain how an unconscious, personal reaction can be wrong? ?[face_plain]

  5. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    It's the same principal behind: "everybody makes mistakes".

    You know, like how Lucas makes mistakes?
  6. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    No, I asked for an explanation, not a faulty comparison. Lucas consciously knows what he is doing. I am talking about the unconscious reaction that just happens. See the difference?

  7. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    That's what I am trying to get you to do. You are so caught up in the logic involved with "what makes a good film", that you aren't able to just feel the film on a sub conscious level.

    You must let go of your conscious self and act on instinct.
  8. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    You are wrong. I am not caught up in worrying about what a film needs to be good, I just watch a movie and my natural reaction tells me if I like it or not. I disliked TPM because, after the first time watching it, it just didn't feel right. I didn't examine it or anything the first time I saw it. I just watched and the reaction followed. I am not overthinking anything here.

    Hmm, quoting a movie doesn't make you any more profound. (where have I heard that before? ;) )
  9. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Yes it does. It adds resonance to my points that people can relate to because they have seen the films and know the themes the quotes refer to.

    Your gut isn't capable of telling you TPM sucked. That all comes from your rational analytical mind.
  10. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    No my gut reaction pretty much told me I didn't like it. But I have to ask, why does it matter to you so much if I liked the movie or not? You should know by now that you're not going to change my mind, so why all this nonsense about my analytical mind? When did you become a psychiatrist? Oh, wait, you're not. (If only Quix were here....)

    You seem to have taken offense to my point about you're quoting movies. Was that your gut reaction or your analytical mind? :p Just kidding, kind of. See how non-applicable that argument is?

  11. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well, I guess it doesn't apply if you don't want it to...
  12. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    It's not that I don't want it to, it's just that it doesn't. I was not analyzing the movie at all the first time I saw it. It was just my gut reaction. Please explain how a gut reaction is the same as me not wanting to like it. Even after I have told you several times that I really did want to like it.

    I feel like I am going in circles here.

    EDIT - Sp
  13. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    If your conscious mind tells you you can't like it, then your sub-concious mind never gets the chance to give it a shot.

    Perhaps you were in the theater and heard the word "Yippie" and became self conscious about your even watching the film? Maybe you looked around to see if anyone was noticing you paying good money to see a 9 year old boy skip around Watto's shop like a little orphan annie, and that made your stomach feel queasy.

    Sometimes a nervous stomach can seem like a gut reaction.
  14. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Can you reach in any deeper and pull that stuff out? Jeez. Seriously, that is quite possibly the most off-base thing I have seen you say. (and that is saying a lot! :eek: )

    Okay, how many more times do I have to explain this to you?

    First, it's not like I was making a checklist of the things I didn't like as the movie went on. And it's not like I was telling myself that I shouldn't like certain things, like "yippie", to use your example, or the fart joke, to use another common complaint. If that were true, then shouldn't I have also hated Shrek? It was filled with fart jokes. What about the Emporer's New Groove, which was filled with slapstick? Shouldn't I have hated that as well?

    Maybe you looked around to see if anyone was noticing you paying good money to see a 9 year old boy skip around Watto's shop like a little orphan annie, and that made your stomache feel queasy.


    The theater was packed with many people my age. I had several friends there sitting right next to me. We all spent money on TPM because we love SW and wanted to see it!!I was not embarrassed in the least to be seen there.

    Sometimes a nervous stomache can seem like a gut reaction.

    Anyting else you'd like to tell me about my physiology, since you've never even seen me and know nothing about me? Now instead of psychiatrist your playing doctor. How quaint.

    Here's the thing. There is no mental problem that anyone who dislikes TPM has, no matter how much you try to tell us there is. It just comes down to gut reaction and personal taste. Personally, I like movies that I find to be better than what TPM was. Movies that leave me feeling good, or at least entertained. TPM failed on the former, and was simply mediocre on the latter, IMO.

    Oh, and can you post the phone number for that home psychiatrist kit that you use? :p

  15. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Must have hit him pretty close to the mark to get him all riled up like that...

    Seriously, I was just stabbing in the dark. You told me to explain how that could possibly happen, I was just using a hypothetical. If you say your sub conscious told you that the film wasn't good, then I am sure you aren't making it up.

    Also, I am not a doctor or psychiatrist. I wouldn't look to internet chat rooms for that kind of professional help.
  16. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    I didn't want that kind of help, I just wondered where you were getting all this stuff you keep spouting. [face_laugh]

    Must have hit him pretty close to the mark to get him all riled up like that...

    I guess we're even then... [face_devil]

  17. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Just by the way, I have to clarify that I am not saying that anyone has a mental problem. Your assumption that the only way someone could make a mistake in critical judgement is if they had a mental disorder is bewildering to me.
  18. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Maybe mental block is more close to what you seem to try to be saying. That's just what it comes off as when you talk about someone's conscious not letting their subconscious decide stuff for them. Ehh, I'm too tired to debate this anymore. Maybe tomorrow.

    EDIT - and my typing is proving this for me....
  19. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    "That's what I am trying to get you to do. You are so caught up in the logic involved with "what makes a good film", that you aren't able to just feel the film on a sub conscious level."

    But you cannot possibly feel *that* much over a film where imbecile cartoon Gungans hit cartoon battle droids with big, blue, shiny balls? Where characters are so flat they can slip through very thin cracks? Where all the backstory established in the OT is ruined?

  20. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    How about a film where people suddenly develop magical telekenetic powers, a backward-talking muppet is supposed to be the fountain of all mystical knowledge, and "That's where they are, I just know it so it's true" counts as a good plot device? Where the central character doesn't interact with anyone except a muppet for 95% of the film?

    Not bashing, just comparing...
  21. Malthus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    Lucas has made plenty of mistakes, one of which was letting just anyone in to see TPM.
    I bet the writer of this post would retract it if they had the chance.

    If they completely melt down because they can't concieve the possiblity that any kind of clarification could happen in the missing portion of the story, then they would be marked as part of the population who will have to wait until all the films are complete.
    But TPM's biggest problems have little to do with a need for plot clarification. I have said elsewhere that I'm not on the basher side of the plot holes argument because it's hard to make a convincing argument that there are major plot holes in the first part of an as-yet unfinished saga. But the probs that I have with it are more about the movie's quality (plot devices).

    (AgentCoop)I know a challenging film when I see one. TPM isn't it.

    (GMT)Were you expecting it to be? And if so, in what way?

    I thought TPM was supposed to have a lot of depth -- you know, all this heavy stuff that so many no just not getting? So which is it: deep/moving or care-free/clowny? I may be missing an example, but I'm thinking you can't have both.

    And seriously, if you are telling people that they have to force themselves to want to like it, that's the same as admitting it isn't very good.
    stone_jedi, you're my hero! Well-said.

    I am not caught up in worrying about what a film needs to be good, I just watch a movie and my natural reaction tells me if I like it or not. I disliked TPM because, after the first time watching it, it just didn't feel right. I didn't examine it or anything the first time I saw it. I just watched and the reaction followed. I am not overthinking anything here.
    Well... you're not overthinking any more than everyone else is, if that's what you mean. :D

    How about a film where people suddenly develop magical telekenetic powers, a backward-talking muppet is supposed to be the fountain of all mystical knowledge, and "That's where they are, I just know it so it's true" counts as a good plot device? Where the central character doesn't interact with anyone except a muppet for 95% of the film?

    Not bashing, just comparing...

    The strength of an argument depends greatly on its ability to avoid exaggeration as well as making the point in such a way that leaves little to debate. Because if exaggeration is used, it can then be called back and picked apart by others. Luke wasn't with Yoda for 95% of ESB. In addition, the coolest part of Star Wars is, indeed, the magical happenings in it. The Force, even as a scientifically unexplained story element(OT), is a fantastic piece of the Star Wars saga -- it adds some mystical magic to an action-packed galactic-warfare movie saga.
  22. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    >>>...if exaggeration is used, it can then be called back and picked apart by others. Luke wasn't with Yoda for 95% of ESB.

    My apologies (let's just say I had an early Friday), but my point was that he spends VERY little time in the film interacting with Han, Leia, Vader etc. (ie. anyone other than Yoda.) Maybe not 5%, but certainly no more than, oooh, 15%. ;)) From some TPM-bashing posts, you'd think that defines it as a "bad film."

    >>>>In addition, the coolest part of Star Wars is, indeed, the magical happenings in it. The Force, even as a scientifically unexplained story element(OT), is a fantastic piece of the Star Wars saga -- it adds some mystical magic to an action-packed galactic-warfare movie saga.

    I'm not alone in preferring the pre-ESB-flavour Force to the ESB-flavour Force. And I know it's not an argument that you side with, but if you accept that Vader just "knows" where the Rebel base is in ESB, or that the Millenium Falcon hasn't been destroyed in the asteroid field [EDIT- or Luke going to Bespin] then surely you can accept that Maul managed to trace a transmission to the Naboo Cruiser on Tatooine?

    Basically, I don't think many "bashers" hold TPM to the same standards as their beloved Holy Trilogy.
  23. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    No religious ambitions, I am just trying to get people to stop looking at what TPM is not long enough to realize what it is.
  24. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    'If your conscious mind tells you you can't like it, then your sub-concious mind never gets the chance to give it a shot.'

    You mean.. what you consciously choose to focus on determines how your subconscious perceives reality?

    Interesting... never thought of that before...






    ;)
  25. AgentCoop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    Go_Mer: "Were you expecting it to be?

    And if so, in what way?"


    Forgive me everyone, for replying to a post from two pages ago, but this is the first chance I've had. (although Malthus pretty much covered it).

    You can't have it both ways. You spend most of your time telling people who criticize TPM that it was over their heads. That they weren't willing to dig deep enough to see what was really going on in the film. Now you're telling me that I'm wrong to look for the complexity that you keep telling me is there. Make up your mind.
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