The Halls of Arrakeen - The Official D U N E and Frank Herbert discussion thread

Heh, the other day I watched 'The Village' again (nothing else on TV and I was too lazy to select a DVD ) featuring ol' William "Duke Sleepo" Hurt. I swear, he was awake in this movie. If he had acted this way in the Dune miniseries, I'd have a lot less complaints. Perhaps I didn't notice his lack of facial expressions thanks to the beard....hmmm....

And I tried reading 'The Butlerian Jihad', couldn't get past the second chapter. Perhaps I should just try reading 'Road to Dune' again and see if KJA and B Herbert's contributions there are more tolerable (the last time, I only read the supposed original notes/drafts made by Frank Herbert, didn't bother with the other parts).

 

...ha, i've managed to successfully not touch "Road to Dune".

 

Touching it ain't that big a sin, as long as you don't buy it. As I mentioned, the original drafts/notes by ol Frankie were rather interesting. Might have been more interesting if we got some explanation about his obsession with the subject of Leto's penis in 'God Emperor of Dune'....

On second thoughts, perhaps some things should remain a mystery.

 

Well, I happened to buy "The Butlerian Jihad" and ended up trying to use it as toilet paper. I got burned twice by that worthless book, so I took it up to the woods and blasted several holes in it with my .30-06. That was quite fulfilling, unlike the book.

 

Somehow, i live vicariously thru this post. You have lived the DREAM, my friend

 

Alas, you're not gonna get sympathy from me, pal. I've said it again and again: read the prequels, do NOT buy them. Go to one of those "bookshop with nice comfy chairs" places and read the prequels there.

Oh well, it's your money to waste.

In a somewhat unrelated note, a friend of mine remarked that the guy who played Duke Leto in the 80s movie of Dune (this Leto was the one who was awake and had facial expressions ) has a small part in this summer's so-called blockbuster, "The Da Vinci Code", har har. I did like the guy's performance as Leto (my feelings on 'Duke Sleepo' need not be repeated ), but sometimes he seems too nice. Might be cool to have a Duke Leto who can get the balance between being nice and charismatic yet at the same time be cold as Jessica mentioned to Yueh.

*shrug* But as I said, I'm pretty much convinced the first Dune novle is cursed with crappy adaptations.

 

This thread needs to be resurrected. So, let us discuss 'The Movie You Will Never See':

Jodorowsky's DUNE

Extracts:

In the film, Duke Leto (father of Paul) would be a man castrated in a ritual combat in the arenas during a bullfight. (The emblem of the Atreide house being a sacred bull...) Jessica--Bene Gesserit nun--, sent like a concubine to the duke to create a daughter who would be the mother of a Messiah, falls so much in love with Leto that she decides to blow a link in the chain and create a son, the Kwizatz Haderach, the saviour. In using her powers of Bene Gesserit--as soon as the duke, madly in love with her, confides his sad secret--Jessica lets herself be inseminated by a drop of blood of this sterile man



In my version of Dune, the Emperor of the Galaxy is mad. He lives on an artificial planet of gold, in a palace of gold constructed according to the non-laws of anti-logic. He lives in symbiosis with a robot identical to him. The resemblance is so perfect that the citizens never know if they are facing the man or the machine.



At the end of the movie, the wife of Count Fenring bounds towards Paul, who has already become Fremen, and she slices his throat. Paul while dying says: "Too late, you can't kill me... because..." "Because, (continues Jessica with the voice of Paul) in order to kill the Kwizatz Haderach, you would have to kill me too..." And every Fremen, every Atreide talks now with the voice of Paul: "I am the man collective. He who shows the way."



Dune becomes green. A blue ring now surrounds the planet. It separates. It produces more and more rings. Dune is at present an illuminated world which traverses the galaxy, that leaves it, that gives its light--which is consciousness--to all the universe. In order to conceive this final sequence of transmutation of matter, I had the chance to come in contact with some real alchemists... Some mysterious beings (one of them seemed to have more than a hundred years, an advanced age which yet permitted him to move about with the energy of a young adolescent) approached me because Dune could be a philosophical stone, the stone which changes all the other metals into gold..



One time, divinity really wanted to tell me in a lucid dream: "Your next film must be Dune". I had not read the novel. I got up at six in the morning and like an alcoholic who awaits the opening of the bar, I waited for the bookstore to open to buy the book. I read it in one stroke without stopping to drink or eat



I started to look for actors. I had seen Charlotte Rampling in Zardoz. I wanted her for Jessica. She refused the role. She wanted at the time to do two or three commercial films, the life of love interested her more than art. David Carradine came to Paris, interested by the role of Leto. The actor that I wanted the most was Dali: for the small role of the mad Emperor...



(Charlotte Rampling as Jessica and David Carradine as Leto would have made an awesome on-screen couple!)

And behold...THE DESIGNS!!!!


[image=http://s4nit4rium.free.fr/moe%20paul.jpg]

White haired Paul Muad'Dib!

[image=http://s4nit4rium.free.fr/moe%20fenring.jpg]

Ronald McFenring!

[image=http://s4nit4rium.free.fr/moe%20feyd.jpg]

Princess Feyd!

[image=http://s4nit4rium.free.fr/moe%20leto.jpg]

Leto the Thundercat!

[image=http://s4nit4rium.free.fr/moe%20baron.jpg]

Ah, this design of the Baron is rather OK, really emphasized his huge bulk!

[image=http://s4nit4rium.free.fr/moe%20shaddam.jpg]

Why Emperor, what a big helmet..err...crown...er, whatever you have!



(thanks to another thread in this forum which made me search around for this...treasure )

 

Well, it wasn't money wasted, mostly because I got satisfaction for destroying a terrible book.

 

And here's another link, thanks to Lurking_Around:

http://www.duneinfo.com/unseen/

Dali would be a cool "Emperor". Too bad he's expensive. $100,000 dollars an hour? Can you imagine any actors and actresses who's more expensive than that?

Plus, just imagine the fun watching the fourteen long hours movie.

 

Dali would be a cool "Emperor".

I don't think I've ever actually heard of this guy. Still, he sounds like some prima donna, with his crazy demands. Then again, perhaps crazy directors work best with crazy actors.

For me though, the best casting idea by Jodorowsky was for Jessica and Leto. Very cool idea to have Rampling and Carradine. This would have been a far superior pair than the Leto and Jessica we get in the 80s movie and the miniseries. Certainly Carradine would be better than William "Zzzzz" Hurt. Though I do wonder if Rampling would match Alice Krige's awesome potrayal in CoD.

Interestingly, some websites claim Carradine was gonna be Kynes if he didn't get the Leto part (some said Jodorowsky himself wanted to play Leto! ). Ya know, this could still work today, I wouldn't mind having Carradine as Liet-Kynes.

Plus, just imagine the fun watching the fourteen long hours movie

I doubt they're actually gonna make one movie that long. Either it's gonna get chopped up during editing (now that would be even more messy than the 80s Dune) or...perhaps they'll release it as three movies or something. That would be have been awesome.

I suppose it depends on what "the divinity" tells Jodorowsky and what advice he received from hundred year old "real alchemists".



And I thought Gibson and his "The Holy Spirit told me!" was mad enough.

 

Are you referring to Salvador Dali, the painter? Did he act?

 

Salvador Dali has been dead since 1989. Unless ya'll are talking about another Dali, if so, I apologize for jumping in half cocked.

 

Are you referring to Salvador Dali, the painter? Did he act?

I checked him out at imdb.com:

Salvador Dali page

And a pic

Eeek! Well, that does look like a "mad Emperor", heh.

 

Well, this week was the week that "Hunters of Dune" aka the first half of DUNE 7 was released. I just picked up a copy this afternoon. I'm only about 60 pages into it, so far, and while it is nice to see characters like Teg and Sexual-weapon Duncan again, it's quite disheartening to be reading them in the dumbed-down KJA/BH style.

Ah well. Hopefully following Frank's notes will force them to at least have SOME element of deeper meaning in there.

Though you still have repeated-stuff over and over and over, and KJA/BH REALLY need to learn what a thesaurus is and how to employ subtlety. They need to start assuming the intelligence of their readers, ya know?

Important note: the first mention of "SPICE COFFEE" is on Page 42. I had to laugh outloud when i read it.

SPICE COFFEE: The drink of choice of Emperor Shaddam IV!

 

I am just a little past pg 125 and for my frist time reading one of their books I have not found it that bad yet.

I still won't read their prequels more than likly but who knows.

 

^^That's classic KJA-syndrome. The is the apparent master at luring you in with a story that has you believing "maybe it'll be different, this time..."

I can remember when i first read 'House Atreides'. It was actually not bad! Then along came "House Harkonnen", which was a bit worse, and then "House Corrino" which was just.....the worst thing those guys have contributed to the Dune Universe...

 

I got Hunters of Dune a few days ago and I couldn't believe it when I opened the book at home. It was a signed copy. I was happy.

I haven't started reading it yet because I'm going to reread chapterhouse.

 

sweet.

 

Mmm, the only way I will get this book is if a friend or parent buy the book for me. Are there anything good about this sequel so far?

If anyone can not post spoilers about this book in the thread, PM me, since I don't mind. I have a bad feeling about "Hunters of Dune". Through the cover looks nice.

Oh dear, the synopsis on the Amazon.co.uk said this: "Fleeing from the monstrous Honored Matres - dark counterparts of the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood - Duncan Idaho, the military genius Bashar Miles Teg, a woman named Sheeana who can talk to sandworms, and a group of desperate refugees explore the boundaries of the universe. Aboard their sophisticated no-ship, they have used long-stored cells to resurrect heroes and villains from the past, including Paul Muad'dib and his love Chani, Duke Leto Atreides and his Lady Jessica, even the traitor Doctor Yueh, all in preparation for a final confrontation with a mysterious outside Enemy so great it can destroy even the terrible Honored Matres. And, deep in the hold of their giant ship, the refugees carry the last surviving sandworms from devastated Arrakis, as they search the universe for a new Dune."

Resurrected Paul Muad'dib? Is that for real?

 

I remember there being rumors that they were thinking about resurrecting Paul, but I hadnt heard about all of the others. What is this, a Ghola All-Star Team or something ? After reading that snyopsis I definitely have a bad feeling about this one. My Dad was actually going to give me the $$ to pick it up this week when I go get Bloodlines but I think I may just convince him to pass on it after reading that...

 

Also, the rumor I heard about the "mysterious enemy" is how the enemy is the Omni robots from the Butlerian Jihald novels. What a wonderful way for the two writers to do that.

Well, there is a chance that the writing may be improved. Maybe the "Ghola All-Star Team" (God, I love this name now!) was one of Frank Herbert's ideas. If Frank Herbert used this idea, it may be as a way of "philosophy". Considers how Frank Herbert's last Dune novels were "insane".

Through when I thinks of the resurrected Paul, why the synopsis would reveals that? I think a plot thing where a dead hero is resurrected would be a big secret, something not to be revealed on the synopsis of the novel.

Brian Herbert and KA always make a big deal of how this sequel is based on Frank Herbert's ideas and paperworks about this story. Through, how much FH's ideas they are using, and how much of the novel is their original ideas? Seem like something we'll never know.

Well, I'm stucking with my position of checking it out at the library or getting it as a gift from someone else. There's always hopes, eh?

 

Eh, to be honest, i believe the possiblity of a Ghola all-star team (i also love that name ) was hinted at IN Chapterhouse. I can't quite remember where (I've only ever read Chapterhouse once), but i do believe that it was mentioned that the Tleilaxu possessed dna samples of many of the legends of history at some point. I'd have to go back to read the book again to be able to give you quotes and page references, but i actually just assumed that this would be a plot element of Dune 7. It is somewhat mysterious that they would include it on the book's JACKET summary, though.

I'm just past the 100 page mark. So far it has all been setup. You don't really get a real sense of where the book is headed, yet. Will keep you all posted!

 

Point conceded about the Ghola All Stars team. I didn't know about that reference in Chapterhouse. So seem like the Gholas team was an idea of Frank Herbert.

Wait! Instead of "All Stars team", why not.... "Gholas A Team", with their A no-ship"! Yeah, just imagines Paul in the role of Mr. T.

Drew, how's the novel so far? Any positive or negative aspects?

 

Just had a question that the books might have answered but the miniseries didnt??? what the hell is the golden path and why did Leto II become a worm?

 

Just a question. Have you read Frank Herbert's Dune novels yet? If not, you should go out and get them. Just borrow them from a public library if you can not. They're good novels. Sadly, the same can not be said for Brian Herbert and Kevin's Dune novels.

Regarding your questions, I can link you to information on Wikipedia, if you want. The "Golden Path" and the Emperor Leto II are from Frank Herbert's "God Emperor of Dune".

"God Emperor of Dune": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Emperor_of_Dune

"Dune universe": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_universe

Regarding the God Emperor and the Golden Path:

"At the time of God Emperor of Dune, the God Emperor Leto Atreides II has ruled the Empire for 3,500 years from the verdant face of a transformed Arrakis; melange production has ceased. The sandworms are gone, except for the sandtrout (a larval stage) that Leto forged a symbiosis with, transforming him into something like a human-sandworm hybrid.

The Empire he had been born in suffered from the twin Achilles heels that it could be governed by one man, and that it was totally dependent on melange, found on only one planet in the universe. Leto's prescient visions had shown a high probabilty of humanity being extinguished by a "Great Enemy", possibly the return of thinking machines. Leto's solution was to place humanity on "The Golden Path." Leto governed as a benevolent tyrant, providing for his people's physical needs but denying them any spiritual outlets other than his own religion. Personal violence of any kind was banned, as was nearly all space travel. This created a pent-up demand for freedom and travel.

Leto also conducted a selective breeding program among the descendants of House Atreides (the descendants of his sister, Ghanima), finally arriving at Siona, daughter of Moneo, whose actions were hidden from prescient vision. After Leto's death there was rebellion and revolt, but also an explosion in travel and colonization known as The Scattering, in which the number of inhabited planets came to outnumber the old Empire by perhaps 100 to 1. The Scattering, combined with the invisibility of House Atreides to prescient vision, ensured that humanity would never again be threatened with total extinction."

And regarding why Leto II "merges" with a sandworm, so he can become immortal and lives "forever", to ensures humanity is on the Golden Path. Being immortal so he can't be attacked or be killed, but his only weakness is water.