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The Hell Thread

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by The1, Jul 18, 2002.

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  1. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
  2. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Hell is nothing more than an abstraction created to help the clergy maintain power.

    The Bible is so full of contradictions, as its' interpretation. As a moral guide, it's great, but where the afterlife is concerned, forget it. Recently, I remember some catholic clergymember stating that yes, Jews do go to Heaven, which flies in the face of centuries of opposite doctrine.

    So which one is it?? It's nothing, because when you die, you don't go anywhere. This is of course my opinion, but I cannot reconcile the idea of an all-loving God with one that will punish you for not jumping from one foot to the other through His hoops.

    Peace,

    V-03

    ps And if you flame me, I will tell you to go to hell :D
     
  3. Darth_Drunk

    Darth_Drunk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2002
    "The Bible is so full of contradictions"

    Such as?

    "Recently, I remember some catholic clergymember stating that yes, Jews do go to Heaven, which flies in the face of centuries of opposite doctrine. "

    Not really. As long as that Jewish person accepts God and treats his fellow man well, then he has filled the criteria. And that is what is said throughout the Bible.


     
  4. DESERTJEDI

    DESERTJEDI Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2001
    If you choose to reject God, He will not force you to accept him and you will go to hell.

    So the 5 billion people who live on the earth and "don't" believe in "God" they are going to hell?

    Even the dalai lama is going to hell? ?[face_plain]
     
  5. Chris2

    Chris2 Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 1998
    The "All-loving God" is kind of a stereotype-yes, he is merciful, but he is also very, very scolding. Kind of a father-which he pretty much is. Whenever the Jews became too Idoltarous or corrupt, he kicked them out of Israel by bringing in Gentile armies(Babylonians, Romans) until they had humbled themselves.
    As for Israelites going to heaven, I think it's quite clear that Jews too have to accept Jesus(The exception being perhaps Jews who did not know Christ since they lived before him, but were faithful follower of the first covenant, or the Mosaic Law). But apparentally God favors the Jews pretty highly.
     
  6. Ki-Adi Bundi

    Ki-Adi Bundi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2000
    Not believing in life after death, it is hard for me to say what a Hell should be. Probably a place where you just have contact with other spirits in perpetual (psychological?) agony and away from any relief.
     
  7. gwaernardel

    gwaernardel Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 5, 2001
    Chris2: I really need to point out that the Apocryphal books of the Bible were not taken out because some priests objected to their content. They were taken out because no one knew how they had gotten there inthe first place. The only religion that regards them as actual books of the bible is Roman Catholicism. Jesus, the Jews, and the Apostles all regarded them as non-canon.
     
  8. Jedi knight Pozzi

    Jedi knight Pozzi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2000
    Previously I was under the impression that it was all fire and brimstone. Then a few years ago I heard it was merely a dark empty void. Anyone else hear about that?
     
  9. Cailina

    Cailina Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 1999
    Just about every religion has a hell-and they all pretty much have the same characteristics. Fire, lava, torture...

    I was under the impression that it was primarily an Abrahamic religious idea. What other religions have a hell?

    Two words: New Jersey

    Hey now, don't you go bashing my state! :p New Jersey is a lovely place to live, it's called the Garden State for a reason!

    All of that said, I'd add that personally I don't believe in a hell like the Chrisitan view, the only hell I can believe in would be like what Java_Jedi described. Nice description Java :)
     
  10. Darth_SnowDog

    Darth_SnowDog Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2001
    I am Hindu... I do not know of any concept of hell in Hinduism.
     
  11. Java_Jedi

    Java_Jedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2002
    Thank you Cailina :)

     
  12. Gutter_Monkey

    Gutter_Monkey Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Hell is being traped in an Eternal Math Class tought by Mrs. Fullenwider.

    *Shudder*
     
  13. gwaernardel

    gwaernardel Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    A couple things have really been on my mind lately regarding this. Do you think that Hell is a placed for all those who don't believe in the same religion you do? Or is it reserved for the people who really do sick things? I don't have a problem with the idea of a Hell existing. I just wish the requirements to get in were a little more strict.
     
  14. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Darth_Drunk-

    Tons of contradictions. The Bible says 'thou shalt not kill', and then goes on to list a dozen things you should execute people for.

    Jesus preached love and tolerance, but promised damnation for those who didn't follow him specifically..."no-one comes to the Father except through me".

    As far as the Jews go, if you've actually read the Bible, you will know that in revelation, the Jews are given the final choice to accept Jesus as the Messiah, or burn. Israel (meaning the nation of remaining Jews-the Remnant) will suffer the loss of two-thirds of it's Jewish population, who will be damned, not die as tribulation saints (since they didn't accept Christ as Lord), and the remaining one-third will basically convert and be saved.

    So really, the Jews only get 'preferential treatment' in the Old Testament. They need to become christians to get that treatment in the New.

    By the way, were you acting out your name in your original post ;)?

    Peace,

    V-03
     
  15. MadMardigan

    MadMardigan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    What does your religion tell you Hell would be or just how do u see it.

    Hell: a place where Hank will kick my ass for eternity if I don't kiss his.
     
  16. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    In my church, Hell is seen as a separation from God caused by our own sins and lack of repentence. We do suffer, but not because He makes us suffer, but because we know that we could have been so much more if we had been obedient.

    We see this life as a time to prepare to meet God. We do that by following His commandments and repenting when we don't. As we do this, we become more like him (i.e. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father..."). Those who do not prepare through repentence, do not receive the blessings that those who do repent do.

    As one person said in another thread, it's like having a Yugo and knowing you could've had a Jaguar.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  17. sleazo

    sleazo Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 13, 2001
    Many other religions do not believe that we were ever seperated from god, that we are in fact god.
     
  18. AJA

    AJA Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 1998
    I don't think anyone can say with certainty what happens when we die, but there was a special on MSNBC a while back about near-death experiences where numerous people described what happened to them, and I found it interesting.

    One of them was a college art professor, who was on vacation in France with his wife, and was at the time an atheist. He had a sudden illness (a stomach perforation if I recall), and was rushed to the hospital. They left him in a room by himself, and he said he knew he was dying, and felt himself slip away, assuming he would simply cease to be.

    He was surprised to find himself standing in the room, looking at his dead body lying on the bed. He heard a voice from outside calling to him, saying "it's time to go", and when he opened the door he was ushered by some sort of beings towards a dark space, unable to get back to the hospital room. He soon realized that there were thousands of other "people" there in a sort of chaotic mass, crawling all over each other. He felt himself being dragged down, and as they clawed at him, bit him, and otherwise inflicted pain on him, he realized that they were gaining pleasure from his cries of agony, and that the only way to survive was to become one of them. At that point he began to pray whatever prayers he could think of, which were limited. He called on Jesus, and he saw a being of light descend towards him. He then found himself back in his body, and he was revived. After he recovered from the experience, he became a minister.

    I don't know what that tells you, but it was a pretty disturbing story. He had drawings that he had done of the experience, and it was not pretty.
     
  19. MadMardigan

    MadMardigan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    He called on Jesus, and he saw a being of light descend towards him. He then found himself back in his body, and he was revived

    And when Hindus have near death experiences they call on Vishnu, and guess what, they claim to see Vishnu descend toward them.

    I don't know what that tells you, but it was a pretty disturbing story.

    It tells me the brain does some pretty strange things when oxygen flow slows and nerve synapses begin misfiring. Very similar to the way our brain perceives dreams as being real while having them.

     
  20. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Do you happen to know if it was ever on MSNBC.com?

    And when Hindus have near death experiences they call on Vishnu, and guess what, they claim to see Vishnu descend toward them.

    Actually, that's not true. Often, people of various religions (Western and Eastern) have had experienced similar to those mentioned above.
     
  21. JediStryker

    JediStryker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2000
    And when Hindus have near death experiences they call on Vishnu, and guess what, they claim to see Vishnu descend toward them.

    Just out of interest, can you post an excerpt of the story where that happened? I'd like to compare the similarities to this other story. Thanks.
     
  22. AJA

    AJA Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 1998
    I don't know. I saw it several months ago- it was one of their hour-long "SECRETS EXPOSED!" type of specials. This one was the only negative experience they had. The others were of the positive variety, where the individuals were engulfed by a bright light and feelings of warmth, and encountered deceased loved ones. All of them were adamant that what they experienced was real.

    Some of them were able to describe surgical procedures that were done on them in great detail, and which they could only have observed from a point outside of where their body lay on the operating table.
     
  23. sleazo

    sleazo Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 13, 2001
    "It tells me the brain does some pretty strange things when oxygen flow slows and nerve synapses begin misfiring. Very similar to the way our brain perceives dreams as being real while having them.
    "
    yet again the simplest answer is probably the right one
     
  24. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 6, 2001
    It's not that simple, Sleazo. The work of people like Dr. Raymond Moody have probed the depths of these things and have uncovered things that take it beyond simple brain functions.
     
  25. sleazo

    sleazo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Care to explain?
     
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