The Hell Thread

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by The1, Jul 18, 2002.

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  1. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    Isn't there enough suffering in this world anyway?

    I agree. Some people need reassurance that their "enemies" will suffer even more, in order to give their current life more meaning, and in order to feel special and important.
  2. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    I don't think there are many people who would wish hell on another person, no matter how much they disliked them.

    As I said before, I don't claim to know exactly what the nature of the afterlife is, but I believe there is one. I believe people have souls, and I believe there is such a thing as good and evil. Because of those two beliefs, I'm willing to believe there is such a thing as hell, although I wouldn't claim to know what its precise nature is.
  3. Jedi_Master_Mazzara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2001
    star 4
    I haven't had time to read anything but the first and post before mine. Excuse me if someone already suggested this.

    Read Inferno, by Dante. Though probably not necessarily a true depiction of Hell, it is interesting, and something to start from.
  4. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Hell is a wonderful concept, a wonderfully terrible concept.

    "OH LAWDY!!HOW COULD DAT MAN SAYS SUTCH A THIN!"


    If you believes there's an eternal life after this one, and there wasn't a Hell, do you really want to be stuck for all eternity with malignantly evil people? Forever with pedophile priests, serial killers, mother rapists, and remorseless genocidal maniacs and unrepenitent socio-paths?

    In case some of you idealists don't get out of the house much, or listen to the news, or read media sources,--- there are some very un-nice, nasty, cruel individuals in this world. Many are every bit as bad as a Hitler only lacking the opportunities. They aren't just misunderstood victimized products of their environments. They willingly choose to perpetrate heinous acts on unsuspecting innocent work-a-day people for their own self-gratifications.


    Then, there are those "bleeding hearts" in the crowd. Well, you people are a bunch of enablers, and just about as bad as the criminal elements because you make it possible for those who are evil to do their thing, providing excuse after excuse for their own defenses in court rooms so they can get off and do it all again. Or just plain not helping them to understand their own accountability. It's not a saint-like quality, so get over it. You just look stupid and ultimately help break society down.


    Then, there's the "how could God be so mean and evil" crowd. In your eyes God is damned if He does and damned if He doesn't. You think you're logical, but you're really just confused, and most people are too nice to tell you so to your face.
    Let's see, God is evil because He decided to allow people to determine for themselves whether they want to be in Heaven or Hell?

    Bad GOD!! You gave us a choice!!

    Be good, desire to be good, and to love, and you can go to Heaven, where you can finally rest from a world so full of pain and evil, where bad people can nolonger hurt you.

    Be bad, not want God, the source of all goodness, and be separated from God because that's what you chose.

    Yep, that makes God evil. Sure it does...in the eyes of the evil. You bet, that's "logical."

    BAD GOD!!You told us there is Hell!!Scare tactic!!Why didn't you not tell us so we could scream: UNFAIR GOD, UNFAIR!!

    Then, you damn God for causing a great flood in judgement to cleanse this place of evil in the past, then you damn God for not doing something to stop your free will choice in damning God and everyone else around you, which by the way friends is the very basis of evil, and holding God accountable for not removing evil today.

    See, confused.

    "What is wrong with the world? I am."
    ~ Malcolm Muggeridge
  5. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    I often question your logic, Brooks, much like I question the idea of an all-loving God who would send you to hell for being born and raised in the wrong part of the world.

    Hell is a scare tactic--"Your soul in jeopardy, and only Religion X can save you!" Scientology does as much.

    And by the way, don't get me started on the absolutely impossible logistics of Noah's flood.
  6. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Geist,

    People send themselves to Hell.

    And if you do question a benevolent loving God and you haven't been struck down by lightning yet, then maybe it's struck you that perhaps you're presumptuous. ;)



    (Somebody's bound to take this wrong too. LOL!)
  7. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    You're just repeating your argument. Do people choose where they're born, or how they're brought up, or whether or not their country outlaws Christianity? You're not talking about choice here; you're talking about predestination.

    What's your opinion here?
  8. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Geist,
    You seemed to miss it the first time.

    I really don't know exactly what you're asking that I haven't made clear?

    You didn't explain specifically what you questioned in my logic?


    'Predestined' in Biblical terms means only what God intended for us, not necessarily what will occur. We were all predestined to spend eternity with God, but not all of us will. But that is what we were all created for by God.

    Think in terms of a lot purchased that you've predestined in your plans to have an office building built upon. You've got the archetectural drawings made up, the initial capitol investment...but then, financial difficulties crop up do to backers, or what not, and it ends up a parking garage.


    Ever heard of the Magi? Y'know, the three wise men who visited the Christ child? Did you know they weren't Christians?<gasp!> God has a plan. If you were familiar with the Bible you'd know of the content addressing your concerns in the Epistles as written by the Apostle Paul.

    Have you ever considered the insufficiences of your qualifications to so arrogantly question God? Just wondering. You realize you aren't his peer, right?

    Besides being impolite and thinking slanderously of His character, despite the wonderful gift He bestowed in providing you with being, have you considered God has every right to do what is best in His own counsel with His creation?

    Hint:
    "For God so LOVED THE WORLD He gave His only begotten Son."

    That also suggests He's not in the business to see how many people He can dump in Hell, eh?

    God looks at the hearts of men.

    You really do think evil of the Lord, y'know?

    I can assure you, He is more loving than you can possibly imagine, and I do know this firsthand.

    But, you can distrust Him all you want, but you'll never change anything with it, only waste your time.


    p.s.-I'm not arguing.
    It's okay to ask questions to God, but I doubt you'll get an answer until you do so humbly. God likes the meek,the gentle, and the kind, y'know.

    He likes me too, but I sure couldn't tell you why. <shrugs> :)
  9. Obi-HaCoR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2002
    star 5
    You know as a Christian, the one thing I've come to learn the most is that God is a loving God. God is here for you to accept him, and if you don't, he doesn't damn you to hell, you are sending yourself there basically. I see hell as a place where there is no God, no way to reach out to him, yet you are just in a miserable place where, when you get there, you'll be asking for Christ into your life and it won't happen because you've already made your decision.

    God wants whats best for us, and thats why he's asking you to accept him as your Lord and Savior, to believe in him. He isn't demanind you do accept him, its if you want to. If you want to, then good for you, you'll live in eternity with him. If not, then you've made that decision yourself as to where you want to go. Those religion bashers make it seem like he isn't loving, when he really is. They say that because they don't know him personally like some may. Christ died for our sins upon that cross so that you and I can have eternal life and live with him. Living with Christ is soemhing that none of us deserve but because he died for us, he's given us that chance to. He's saying, "Heaven is in Me". If you want to get to heaven, you have the choice to accept me or not.

    "Christ died for the ungodly. Very Rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man, someone might possibly dare to die. But God Demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." -Romans 5:6-8

    "For the wages of Sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord." -Romans 6:23

    We are all sinners and none of us deserve the oppertunity to get to heaven. But if we don't confess our sins and accept Jesus Christ as our Father and Savior then we will go to hell, not because He sends us, but because we choose to ourselves. Accepting Christ is us choosing to want to live with him in eternal life in heaven.

    I would prefer people to be grown ups about what I have said. Not saying you have to believe what I said but I thought this was a place to discuss what we believe and not Bash on people like I have seen before. I hope people can be grownups about stuff like this. God Bless!!!! Then again, this is just my belief, if you have a belief of your own, great, tell us about it.
  10. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I just have a bit of trouble understanding the qualifications for getting into Heaven om the Christian religion. All it takes is accepting Jesus as your saviour. This means that people who rape and mangle small children and then leave their remains in ditches can have a place in Heaven as long as they confess their sins and all that.
    But, if you devote your entire life to helping others, you do nothing but good your whole life, and you die so that others can be saved without being a Christian, you are destined to eternal damnation?
    I'm sorry but this seems a little messed up to me. I definitely prefer the value system in most other religions: If you do good things, you will be rewarded. If you do evil things, you will be punished. I'm sorry but if I go to Heaven and I have to share it with Jeffrey Dahmer just because he happened to find Jesus in the last five minutes of his life, I don't think it's worth it.
  11. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    That is one Christian perspective on salvation. Another perspective (which happens to be mine) is that salvation is never assured, and is a continuous process through all of life.
  12. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I just have a bit of trouble understanding the qualifications for getting into Heaven om the Christian religion. All it takes is accepting Jesus as your saviour. This means that people who rape and mangle small children and then leave their remains in ditches can have a place in Heaven as long as they confess their sins and all that.

    This is actually an area in which there is a lot of dispute. There are some Christian churches that claim that all you have to do is confess with your lips that Jesus is the Christ and you will be saved. Others claim that you need to perform good works to be worthy of entering heaven.

    Most, however, claim that it is a balance between the two. For example, faith in Christ is required by all Christian churches, but you show your faith in Christ through obeying his commandments. As you have faith in Christ you perform good works because you want to follow his example or because he is working through you (depending on who you ask). Most churches also agree that you need to repent of (turn away from) your sins in order to show/as a result of your faith.

    The problem with saying "Christians believe ______" is that there are so many different denominations that disagree on their specific beliefs. Many even disagree on what constitutes a Christian! (According to many "Fundamentalist Christians", my Church is a cult, not a Christian denomination.) Depending on who you ask, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons or others aren't Christians, even though each of those religions believes in Jesus Christ.

    Kimball Kinnison
  13. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Ah. That makes me feel better.
    I stopped going to my supposedly non-denominational church when the pastor informed us that all Catholics were going to Hell and that about half the people sitting in the church were also.
  14. Obi-HaCoR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2002
    star 5
    "All it takes is accepting Jesus as your saviour. This means that people who rape and mangle small children and then leave their remains in ditches can have a place in Heaven as long as they confess their sins and all that. "


    A lot of people say, well you know what, I don't think I can be saved because some of the things I've done are just way too bad. In the case of people that rape or mangle small children...............they too can find God and live for eternal life with Christ. As long as they confess with thier lips, AS well as thier hearts. Its all good saying you accept him, but do yo ulive the Christian life to the best of your abilities. If the rapiest or whoever actually mean what they say, and change thier lives around, then you know what, they choose to live with Christ. Yeah a person can do a good in his life but I believe the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ and believeing in him and live the life of a Christian by turning away from your old wrong doings.

    I know it sounds wierd and all but if you htink about it, it makes sense. The rapiest choose to change his life around and accept Jesus. Yeah the other person did a lot of good thing, but if you turn away from God, then you choose to go down a different path, thats all I'm saying. If your really serious about changing you ways and sticking to it for the rest of your life to serve God by showing the love he has showed us, then what should it matter what you did in the past if you've given it all away and do it no more. "We hate the sin, but not the sinners." Which means that yeah we may have hated the sins you've commited, but that doesn't mean we hate you as a person.

    God gives ou a choice to choose from, and if you choose to walk a seperate path, then what God has so loveingly given you, then its not his fault. Hate the sin, not the sinner is what I've always been taught. Forgivness is the hardest thing to do, but God forgivess us of every thing we have ever done if we except him as our personal savior because we are starting our life over (a brand new life). Yeah, it may seem wierd that a person who was once a rapist gets saved and goes to heaven, but a person who does good and doesn't accept Christ goes to hell. It's all a matter of what path you will go down basically. Confess with your lips, AS WELL AS show it through your everyday life. You have to do both, you can't just confess and think your good to go, Confess and show the way you live your new life Christ has given you. I know it sounds a little wierd at first, but perhaps you need someone higher up to talk to you, perhaps like a pastor to make it more clearer then I can.
  15. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    What about, say, bushmen of the kalahari? Will they go to Hell if they don't accept or even hear about Jesus?
  16. Obi-HaCoR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2002
    star 5
    to be honest, I was just thinking about that today..........what if people in far off lands, like tribes in stuff deep in other countries don't hear about Jesus, or have anybody explain it to them and talk to them about Him, what will happen to them. Deep inside I want to say the same thing. If they don't know, then they too will go to Hell, but I will not say. I am actually going to talk to my pastor about that. I am going to say they would go to Hell as well. Thats where I'm going to stand on that, but I will talk to my pastor tomorrow and I will post what he says on the board.

    If they don't accept Him yes they will, if they don't hear about Him, I'm not sure but I'm going to yes yes they will also. But I will inform you tomorrow as to what my Pastors OPINION is on the subject about not ever hearing about Jesus :)
  17. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Why do you need to go to your pastor for answers? Wouldn't it make more sense to find them yourself?
  18. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I asked a pastor about that once. He said that if you don't know about Jesus, then he really can't blame you for not believing in him.
    I asked another pastor, however, who said that it was their own fault they didn't go out seeking Jesus or some crap like that. He also thought that babies who weren't baptized went to Hell though.
  19. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Amnesiacs? What if they forgot about Jesus because they had a lobotomy? Would they go to Hell?
  20. Obi-HaCoR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2002
    star 5
    Um.....yes it would make more sense to look them up myself and trust me my friend. I said I was going to get his opinion on what he thought about that situation. I personally feel they will go to Hell. But because I am not quite sure, you better believe I am going to look it up for myself. If I hear something, I won't just take your word on it, I'll do research of my own. How would you ever get knowledge of your own if your going to depend on people to give it to you. I've been through things in life and have done research that has gotten me to where my beliefs are today. Don't just take a persons word on anything, find information yourself and look it up and learn something, but I would like to know his OPINION on it.

    And on that note my friends, I am calling it a night and going to sleep. It is 4 in the morning down here. So I hope you all sleep well and I'll talk to you all later. God Bless and I hope you all have a good day :) Bye for now.
  21. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    It doesn't matter how much good you do, if you don't kiss the right ass, you're going to hell.
  22. CwrnPuppet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Also - what is there to do in Heaven? What kind of night life are we looking at? It might be worth it if I could get Ghandi drunk.
  23. Mandalorian_Jedi__ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 2
    As a Catholic I am one of those who is afraid of hell. There is also a place we call purgatory, a place where you straight up and turn into a perfectly clean soul. What I believe is that though somebody may believe in Jesus, you still may have sin on you. Purgatory is like a hospital. I'ts painful. But unlike in hell, you have the promise of reaching heaven. There with God. The most painful thing I think in hell is knowing that you're not going to heaven. The guilt, the sorrow, the pain.
  24. Chris2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 4
    According to REVELATIONS, there is no night in Heaven.
    Also, considering those who have "never heard"-who were either born and died before Christ or were cut off from being able to hear about them(Which now is not the case)...well, as far as the Jews are concerned, it's stated in the NT that many of the OT heroes made it(Enoch,Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, maybe David). Also, those who followed the Mosaic Law righteously before Jesus did away with that might have a chance.
    BTW, the Mormons believe that Christ actually did show up to Native Americans, in the form of Quetzalcoatyl.
    Regarding faith and works requirements-faith means believing pretty much, but definetly works are probably needed as well-not works like tithing, legalism, prophecy, healing,ministering or casting out demons really--but helping out other people who are in need. This is made very clear in the goats and sheep comparison-the right hand/left hand thingy. It's also stated in James's epistle.
    So in other words, you can be very religious, and still get damned if you don't help people.
  25. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    What about, say, bushmen of the kalahari? Will they go to Hell if they don't accept or even hear about Jesus?

    to be honest, I was just thinking about that today..........what if people in far off lands, like tribes in stuff deep in other countries don't hear about Jesus, or have anybody explain it to them and talk to them about Him, what will happen to them.

    Well, in my church, we believe that those who do not have the opportunity to receive the gospel in this life will have the opportunity to accept it after they have died. The caveat is that the people who would not accept it while here on earth will not just magically change their minds and accept it there. If you wouldn't accept it here, you won't accept it there.

    I, personally, think that makes a lot of sense. God wants us to live with Him and he's going to do everything he can to make it possible for us to do so. He'll give every person every opportunity to choose to live with him.

    Kimball Kinnison
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