Discussion The Heroine of the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Darth Eddie, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    This seems relevant. I edited out the bad word that came before Barbie.

    EDIT: oops, it didn't take. I'll keep trying and get back to you.
    Last edited by Pro Scoundrel, Jul 3, 2013
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I want to see Luke Skywalker baking cookies in Episode VII.

    And I'll throw popcorn and Diet Coke at anyone who calls him a "woman with testicles."

    Stereotypes suck.
    Revanfan1 and Darth Xalfrea like this.
  3. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
  4. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    If the heroine is on heroin, that could be an interesting twist. All the other Padawans call her "Junky Jedi"
  5. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    Its not semantics. Masculine traits are characteristics we usually associate with men. Its not a perfect quantifier. But its applied in a general sense. For the fact, that generally speaking, it holds true . Exceptions to the rule are always around. Masculine traits can be associated with overt aggression(considering that most violent crimes are committed by men-its generally true)which can often manifests in thrill seeking, overt physical demonstration(sports), an increased sexual drive, and overtly competitive nature.

    Basically, the by product of a body that produces a ton of testosterone which then gets codified or bleeds into a male gender constructs. If you do not believe that male brains act/function differently than female brains you may want to read up on cognitive differences on primates exposed to high testosterone levels. They have done tons of studies on this. To be fair, its not absolutes. They're always exceptions to the rule. Or better yet, look into people who suffer from gender identity disorder. If you believe that what they go through is biologically inherent(and not conditioned), then that goes with the belief that masculine/feminine are NOT entirely artificial gender constructs.

    Other things like stoicism and leadership often gets associated to the masculine construct. But I don't think those are gender associate traits in all honesty. I feel both genders can have these characteristics in abundance.

    As far as feminine traits, that obviously gets associated mostly with women. The reason most of traits of empathy, nurturing, sensitivity. The reason we associate these emotions to women is based on the biological concept of mother hood. Again, men can have all these traits. But given the unique ability of women to create life we often associate it with them.

    Now, these masculine/feminine characteristics are not lesser than one another. They are completely equal. They are different sides to the same coin. Btw, nothing that I have said has anything to do with gender roles because I'm not arguing that point.

    As far as misogyny vs sexism vs chauvinism, everyone is going to have a different opinion on that one. Even feminists http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/17/difference-between-sexism-and-misogyny
  6. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    To be fair, most of the women given as examples would not fall into the "guy with boobs" trope especially Dax. Even though Dax was once a man, it became a point in the show to often show the feminine side to her personality. In the previous post, someone mentioned Ripley and she is most certainly NOT a "guy with boobs" example. A women kicking butt has nothing to do with that trope in of itself.
    Last edited by Zuckuss the Ruckuss, Jul 3, 2013
  7. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    Btw, you brought up Willie Scott, Does that mean women can't be irrational, or hysterical? Not all women are going to act like Marion in comparison to Willie. Just like not all men are going to act like Indiana Jones...
    Corvax855 likes this.
  8. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Willie Scott is an abomination. Plain and simple.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  9. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    Oh I agree, she is an unbelievably annoying character. But she was written in a camp/comical fashion, If a character is supposed to be cowardly(man or woman) it should be perfectly fine. As I said, Marion is not all women or Willie for that matter.
    Last edited by Zuckuss the Ruckuss, Jul 3, 2013
    Corvax855 likes this.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Willie Scott is an affront to all women, and humanity in general. Would a male character be excused for behaving that way? Should he? I say no, nor should anyone over the age of 3 regardless of gender.
  11. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    For the record, I dig females in action movies because if I'm going to watch someone run around and spout quips for 2 hours, I'd rather look at an attractive female than, like, Jason Stashamn.
  12. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    Indiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!1!!!!1!!!!!!!!one!!!!!1!!!!!!
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  13. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    I don't know. Male characters have often been portrayed in a similar camp/humorous fashion. Lou Costello from Abbot/Costello is a perfect example of this.
    Corvax855 likes this.
  14. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Her entire purpose is to screech her way through the entire film. There is no other function she serves and man or woman that's a terrible character.
  15. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    She saves indy and short round from getting squashed and impaled. Also, I'm not saying she isn't an annoying character. What I am saying is a female character can be written in a multitude of ways. A women can be strong or cowardly(or both). Just like a guy.
    Last edited by Zuckuss the Ruckuss, Jul 3, 2013
    Sarge and Corvax855 like this.
  16. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    And yet that can't even be a redeeming moment in the film for her because she nearly gets them killed with her pouting and complaining.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  17. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    I think she is redeemed pretty well all things considered. Willie isn't a person who wants to be galavanting with Indiana Jones. She is a person in the worst possible situation who is completely unequipped for it. She isn't in a partnership, like Marion, she is a spoiled singer who is trying to stay alive.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    You forgot whine about her hair and nails and all the parties she's missing, whine about the food, and generally behave like a spoiled brat, not to mention a racist.

    Hell, I take back what I said earlier. No human being should behave that way; even a toddler should be corrected for acting like the world revolves around him or her.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  19. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    But I've known woman, personally, that have acted similarly to Willie Scott(although, obviously, not as exaggerated). I've also known men who are very cowardly like Lou Costello.

    Characters don't have to fit an x/o's ideals. They are what the writer wants them to be.
    Last edited by Zuckuss the Ruckuss, Jul 3, 2013
  20. Corvax855 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 2
    I agree with Zuckuss about Willie Scott. If her character was meant to be played straight, then I could see it being offensive, but it's clearly just a tongue-in-cheek schtick, along with the infamous dinner scene (and other scenes) in that movie.
  21. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I've known people who behaved like Willie Scott as well but I purposely avoided being around them because i could only tolerate it for about two seconds, and I sure as hell don't want to see them on a movie screen for two hours.

    Not going to comment on Costello because it's been a long time since I saw one of those sketches.
  22. Zuckuss the Ruckuss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2013
    star 4
    That was EXACTLY the point of her character. She was supposed to drives us nuts, like she drives Indiana Jones nuts.
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Why would I want to spend two hours and my hard-earned money being driven nuts by a main character?
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  24. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Isn't a thing wrong in the world with a man in the kitchen.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Nope, there isn't. A lot of men cook better than I do.
    Revanfan1 likes this.