Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by ewoksimon, Feb 10, 2012.
I took it as a reference to the dark side, but it's open to interpretation.
Is there any proof that the darkside exists on it's own, regardless of how someone uses it? Tv tropes.com said that the force is just a tool, and the dark and light side are ways that people use it, and that the light side is the natural state, and the darkside is a corruption of the natural state. Didn't George Lucas say that the darkside is a corruption of the natural state of the Force, and exists only if people use the Force selfishly?
Is it an intelligent being? Like humans or animals? Or God or a Devil, since the darkside is more spiritual. Does the darkside and lightside's existence predate life or need life to exist?
Yoda said that "Luminious beings we are, not this crude matter". What does that mean?
I don't think so.
Yeah. Tv tropes is just a bunch of ignorant fans writing stuff they dont know about. Agree?
Other than the darkside cave on Dagobah, is there any proof the darkside exists without people using the Force? Maybe a darksider left a deposit of the darkside of the Force at Dagobah after using it there.....?
I would say the proof exists in Lucas interviews and some EU material.
Some fans have suggested that may be the case.
"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil — everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars." - George Lucas
That doesn't say that the darkside exists on it's own....
The parallels are there. The devil exists on its own... same with yin in the Taoist system. Also, the assumption that the dark side does not exist on its own leads to problems, because as a corollary it should be true that the light side does not exist on its own, and then you have the living Force not existing at all when no Jedi or Sith types are using it, and that can't be right.
What r u trying to say??? How does that prove the lightside of the force and darkside of the force exist on their own?
Also, Obi wan kenobi said that life created the Force. That kinda contradicts it existing on its own.. And Yoda said life creates it........ Contradictions, I sense here???
Of course it depends on life to exist. But it does not depend on being used by Force adepts to exist.
Does the Force exist in the entire SW universe? Or just the main galaxy?
How can God and the Devil depend on life to exist?
How did Lucas's quote prove that it doesnt depend on being used by Force adepts a certain way to exist (the darkside)?
That's a good question.
It's not an exact analogy.
Did Qui gon, yoda, and obi wan and anakin live for eternity in the Force? After getting the secret to immortality? How did Anakin learn the secret to immortality? How did he cope with never reuniting with Padme? Was that punishment for his actions?
Can oneness be achieved with the Darkside, and can the darkside users live in eternal life in the darkside, similar to the 4 jedi mentioned above??
The assistance of Yoda and Obi-Wan.
Were they watching over him in Episode 6? I don't get what you mean? When people in SW die, look it up on Wookipedia, their souls become One with the Force... Did Palpatine become One with the Darkside? If Vader never turned back to the Light Side, could they assist him? Could only Lightsiders learn the path to immortality, quoting Yoda?
If they could bring Anakin's soul back from the Netherworld, why not bring back Padme, Shmi, and everybody else?
Was Qui gon Watching?
No ( Annotated Screenplays ).
Yes. In The Life & Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi, a novel- we see a number of scenes in the movies- as well as EU scenes- from Obi-Wan's point of view. Including the duel on the second Death Star. Obi-Wan is surprised to see Anakin save Luke- and it's that which helps him realize Anakin wasn't irredeemable after all. So, after Anakin's died but before his spirit has faded, he shows Anakin how to return:
Anakin: "Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very - "
Obi-Wan: "Anakin, listen carefully. You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades."
Anakin: "But Master ... why me?"
Obi-Wan: "Because you ended the horror, Anakin. Because you fulfilled the prophesy. Because you were ... and are, the Chosen One. Because I was wrong about you. And because you are my friend."
Anakin: "Thank you, Master."
IMO the simplest way to "bring balance" is to wipe everything out and start again. Anakin became sith, wiped out the jedi, then he destroyed the sith from within to allow new sith and new jedi to emerge(the lost tribe on kesh are the only loose thread but they were stuck on that planet so they were essentially irrelevant).
Balance of the Force, not balance of the Force-users. A Jedi-Sith stalemate would not be a good result. This includes the scenario where all Force-users are wiped out. The continued existence of the Jedi order is portrayed as a good thing in the films, but the same is not true for the Sith.
So, why didn't Obi wan help everyone else who died in the galaxy achieve immortality? What was the secret to immortality, eternal life?
I guess Padme's conciousness faded and Anakin must spend eternity without her. Maybe that's punishment for his actions, doing all the evil things to save her...
You want them to hide behind Shakespeare?! <just kidding with you>
Yes. Shakespeare is awesome.