Amph The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, The Desolation of Smaug, Battle of the Five Armies

Discussion in 'Community' started by -Courtney-, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. Random Comments Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2012
    star 5
    I have my first final that day....they changed the exam schedule last month, after two years of my planning to go...
  2. Mustafar_66 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 5
    Something to mention that I think a lot of critics missed out on is that it's much lighter in tone and more fantastical than Lord of the Rings. It captures that feel of the book perfectly whilst also adding a bit of meat to the bones in subtext and character development by incorporating stuff from the appendices or what Jackson, Walsh and Boyens have added themselves.

    If you were to hold a gun to my head and find a fault with the film, it would be that whilst the individual set pieces themselves are great, the glue that sticks them all together is a bit weak. However, that's quite a minor detraction from what is otherwise a very enjoyable few hours. Hours which, by the way, didn't drag for me in the slightest.
    Chewgumma likes this.
  3. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    Yeah, it really sucks when unforeseen circumstances **** with plans you've made for a long time.
  4. Random Comments Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2012
    star 5
    Especially when the schedule hasn't changed before since the opening of the school...
    darthcaedus1138 likes this.
  5. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    I wonder if there's anyplace showing HFR 2D. I want to see the 48 FPS version, but I'm not particularly interested in Dr. Tongue's 3D House Of Hobbits.
  6. Random Comments Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2012
    star 5
    No, only in 3D.
  7. Chewgumma Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2009
    star 7
    Just got back from seeing it. I rather enjoyed the majority of it, although it wasn't without its flaws:

    Show Spoiler
    -The prologue with Bilbo and Frodo felt a bit forced. I liked seeing Bilbo begin to write There and Back Again and telling the prologue, but having to set a scene on the day of Bilbo's party and have Frodo nail up the "No Visitors" sign before heading off to surprise Gandalf didn't quite gel for me. It interrupted the flow of the movie, which you don't really want after a lengthy prologue scene.

    -The majority of the special effects were lovely though some were just awful. The all CGI Azog in particular was a weak visual. Most of the orcs in the film are at least partially prosthetic, so to have this rather uncanny CGI Azog among their midst was an odd choice when they could have just made him look like Lurtz from Fellowship and nobody would have complained.

    -There are some pretty large tonal shifts in this film that can be a little awkward. One minute you have a troll with a cold using Bilbo as a handkerchief and thinking he had sneezed out a Hobbit and the next you have Gollum smashing an unarmed goblin's brains in with a rock and singing about how he's going to strip its skin off of its bones. It never feels as inconsistent as the Star Wars prequels, but it was noticeable.

    -Minor nitpick, but it's something that really annoys me. Copy pasting the soundtrack from previous films into new ones is freaking lazy and gives the impression of watching a TV special. And I'm not talking about a re-recording that merges seamlessly into the new soundtrack's melody here, but entire passages from Lord of the Rings copy pasted into the new film. It was incredibly noticeable when Thorin was making a stand against Azog at the end of the film and Sauron's theme started playing.

    On the plus side though:

    - The vast majority of the cast really worked. They bounced off of each other rather well. Martin Freeman in particular was amazing and deserves all the praise he has been getting for his performance. And, of course, it was magnificent to see Ian Mckellen back on the big screen as Gandalf the Grey.

    - I didn't feel it was as much of a drag as some critics have been saying. It certainly isn't a film I would label as a slow burner. It is undeniably lightweight, despite the many set pieces and characters within it. Nothing much really happens plot wise, and only Thorin and Bilbo receive screen time devoted to characterization. But the scenes in the Shire didn't feel like the prolonged chore I had been led to expect.

    - Riddles in the Dark was worth the price of admission alone. It's darkly funny and even a little scary. In fact it's probably one of my favourite scenes in all the Middle Earth movies so far.


    Ultimately it was a good 3 hours of entertainment. It wasn't revolutionary and it certainly isn't as good as Lord of the Rings. But as its own beast I had fun with it. Definitely looking forward to Desolation of Smaug.
  8. laurethiel1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2003
    star 4
    Well, my brother is coming home for Christmas, so... The downside: I have a tonne of stuff to do until then, and I won't be able to see The Hobbit on its opening week-end. The upside: I'll probably get to see it with him, and it's been ages since we've gone to the movies together. All in all, not a bad compensation for a little bit of patience...

    Cheers,
    Lauré :)
  9. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Thank you for the correction. I are learning! This wiki article has a lot of information about fps for those interested in knowing more.
  10. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    Oh man... if Jackson's really directly lifted music from LOTR... egads.
  11. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Explain how you feel this is a problem.
  12. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    I'm currently sitting at the Budapest airport waiting for my flight to London, and I will be seeing the Hobbit in glorious 48 fps 3D tomorrow night. Can't wait! :D
  13. Mustafar_66 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 5
    Expanded thoughts on The Hobbit:

    Show Spoiler
    Pros:

    • Riddles in the Dark. The best chapter of the book and by far the best part of the film. Hell probably one of the best moments from the Middle Earth films. Martin Freeman is excellent in this scene, going from humouring Smeagol to being genuinely terrified when he slips into being Gollum. And for good reason. There are moments where Gollum is genuinely unnerving, particularly when his eyes catch the light and go a ghoulish blue. As good as Freeman is in this scene, it’s Andy Serkis who steals the show. It’s a pity we shan’t see any more of him in the second and third Hobbit films.

    • The Necromancer. Though seen only fleetingly, the sequence with Radagast exploring Dol Guldur is certainly tense and a good prelude of what's to come in the second and third movies. Sylvester McCoy is wonderful as the eccentric wizard and it shows in his scene with Gandalf that the two are good friends. This is contrasted wonderfully with Gandalf’s later scene with Saruman in Rivendell where he seems dismayed to hear his sonorous voice booming out behind him to announce his arrival. That whole backstory with the White Council and Dol Guldur has always fascinated me and I look forward to seeing more.

    • The development of Thorin is a welcome expansion on his character. Whilst re-reading the book he does seem rather one-dimensional, at least in terms of what’s portrayed in the book. What the film does well is to show you the motivation for his quest and to also make his aloofness more understandable, in particular his hatred of the Elves. As well as that, Bilbo’s actions towards the end of the film allow him to thaw somewhat and to accept Bilbo as one of their company, something that is essential if we’re to care about this character for another two films. The inclusion of Azog as a large albino Orc who is hunting Thorin and his company also provides the film with a running antagonist in lieu of Smaug. The history between those two will add an undercurrent to the remaining films, leading up the climax at the Battle of the Five Armies.

    • One concern I did have going into the film was that in having 14 characters on this quest, the film would spread itself thin trying to give each one their own moment. Thankfully this was not the case as the film focuses mainly on a few select members of the company. As well as obvious focus on Bilbo, Gandalf and Thorin, namely Fili, Kili, Bofur, Balin and, to a lesser extent, Dwalin. Hopefully the remaining dwarves will get their time to shine in the second and third films, but for this one it benefits it to focus on only a few.


    Cons:

    • Though the set-pieces of the film are by and large fantastic, the scenes linking them all together can be a bit weak. Even for a Middle Earth film, there are a lot of shots of people walking up hills and down dales. Yes it’s a staple of these films, but it does make the film rather segmented rather than one that flows, something that The Lord of the Rings films managed.

    • The CGI in places is quite ropey. The Great Goblin, whilst not bad enough to make you go: “hang on...” is hardly Academy Award worthy. Similarly, scenes of Radagast in his rabbit powered sleigh take all the powers of suspension of disbelief I can muster. However, it must be said that Gollum looks amazing with updated CGI, so all in all a mixed bag.

    General points:

    • I can’t be the only one who was slightly disturbed by the load of bird poo down the side of Radagast’s head, right?

    • Saw the film at the conventional 24fps 2D and it looked fine. If you really are worried about the higher frame rate then don’t bother risking it.

    • Something to mention that I think a lot of critics missed out on is that it's much lighter in tone and more fantastical than Lord of the Rings. If you’re going into it expecting it to be just like LOTR, you’re in for inevitable disappointment. Yes it’s in the same universe, but it isn’t the same tone or style and nor should it try to be. Jackson, Walsh and Boyens do a great job of incorporating neat little references to the LOTR without copying it.

    • I didn’t expect Smaug to be pronounced like that.

    • Finally, the film manages funny without being forced, mostly due to Martin Freeman’s excellent delivery of lines. If you take nothing else from this film, take away Freeman’s performance because it really is top notch.
  14. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    Don't think I should have to, Merlin. A passage of music in a series like LotR is highly symbiotic with its placement in its given film. Imagine hearing a direct copy of the piece that accompanies Gandalf's fight with the Balrog during his standoff with the Goblin. It's lazy, rude even, on part of the filmmaker, and it's incredibly jarring for the viewer, or at least this one. I was loving Attack of the Clones when I first saw it at ten years old, until the arena/Clone War battle began showcasing pieces I had priorly only associated with the Queen's escape from Naboo, the droid/Gungan battle, Anakin's starfighter escapades, and Padme's retaking of Theed. Even if that climax didn't rip me right out of that world and throw me back into my theater seat, music written for a film like the Phantom Menace just didn't (and still doesn't) work for Attack of the Clones. With a tonal structure doesn't jive with LotR and a score that hinges on the concept of leit motif far more than Star Wars, so will it especially be with the Hobbit.

    Now I've had faith given his work on LotR, that Jackson would respect what music Shore has created for this film. But with post-production running as late as it has, it wouldn't surprise me if what a lot of what we hear on Shore's Hobbit soundtrack is replaced by LotR cues. But I guess we'll all see (hear) soon.
  15. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    Going to see it tonight with a bunch of nerds! Pumped.
    AaylaSecurOWNED likes this.
  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    So I'll be catching an 830 fri (3D, 24fps). I don't have time to rewatch the trilogy, or probably even a full extended edition of one film.

    However, I do want to jump around a mini refresher viewing of the films before I hit the theater.

    So, to you Tolkienites that know The Hobbit (via the book or have already seen the movie), are there any parts of the trilogy beyond the Shire, Gollum & Cate Blanchet scenes I should skim through to that would be particularly relevant to this half of Thr Hobbit?
  17. Mustafar_66 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 5
    Of course some themes and motifs are reused from Lord of the Rings, that's to be expected. I can't say there was anything in there that jarred or didn't feel as though it belonged.
  18. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Possibly the portion of the LOTR appendices having to do with Dale-not relevant to this part of the trilogy*, but the dwarves from there are sort of a big deal towards the end of the book though.

    *Ugh.
  19. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    There's a huge difference between "reusing themes and motifs" and directly lifting tracks from the former films. The latter's what I'm talking about. And I'm glad to see you didn't find anything jarring. That's encouraging.
  20. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    More in reverse, I'm interested in seeing how much Jackson and Lee try to foreshadow Saruman's later betrayal in this trilogy. I assume Lee's part is small, so there may not be much screen time for that sort of thing. In Rivendell we'll have all these immortals in a room together. Galadriel at least has some limited ability to see the future as portrayed in LOTR. Is she suspicious of Saruman?
  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    In the books nobody was, although IIRC Galadriel wanted Gandalf to be the head of the Council. Of course, there were no Elves at Helm's Deep, Denethor wasn't a pyschotic moron, there was no wargs vs. Rohirrim battle, the Ents actually made their decision about fighting Saruman quickly and without having to see the destruction of the forest, there weren't multiple endings, and there weren't any dwarf-tossing jokes...so depending on the books might not be the best idea. :p
  22. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    I watched it a few hours ago but I was extremely tired after so I had to sleep before I got on here.

    Show Spoiler
    I liked the movie movie very much but it was way too long. What made it too long for me was the intro. It was forced and drawn out and took forever to get through. There was no need to for Frodo to even be there. Jackson could easily had set it up with Bilbo at his desk starting his novel and got directly into the movie.

    On the other end there was so much to enjoy. The setup for Erebor was fantastic and well done. The troll scene in the forest was every thing I was expecting. The Goblin King was so fat and gross but cool at the same time.


    I'm sure I'll be seeing it again with my wife over the next week.
    Last edited by Rox, Dec 13, 2012
  23. Random Comments Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2012
    star 5
    Multiple endings...what are people referring to when they say this? If anything I felt like there should be more endings....
  24. black_saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I will not see this movie until the 18thor 19th of december!!! I hope this movie is good!!!!!
  25. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    The fade out with Frodo and Sam at Mount Doom. The fade out after the mutual gazes between Frodo and Sam in Minas Tirith. The expected fade out after the swift camera movement into the skies of Minas Tirith. The expected fade out after Frodo's "There's room for a little more." The fade to white as Frodo passes into the sea. And the final fade to black at Sam's front door. That's what people are referring to. It's little to do with the content of the finale and a lot to do with how it is arranged and edited.
    Last edited by Bacon164, Dec 13, 2012