Amph The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, The Desolation of Smaug, Battle of the Five Armies

Discussion in 'Community' started by -Courtney-, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    The black arrow killed Smaug in the book so it's canon
  2. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    The Black Arrow did pierce Dragon hide did it not? That is how Smaug dies.
    Dragon scales are invulnerable, but the underside is not.
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  3. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    Yep, that's how Smaug died in the book, Bard pierced him with a black arrow
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  4. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    Ah, how odd, I forgot Bard used a Black Arrow. The deleted scenes, then, seem to explore the origins of those arrows, plural. I'm intrigued!
  5. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Was I the only one let down when I read the Hobbit and it was someone other than the Dwarves who killed Smaug?
  6. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

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    Yes, Bard killed Smaug with a black arrow, but it did NOT pierce Smaug's scales - he knew where to shoot because the raven told him about the bald spot. Now obviously, a talking raven wouldn't fit with the tone of these films, so I'm assuming they're simply giving the black arrows the general ability to wound/kill a dragon. I'm assuming they're going to make them pretty rare (otherwise the Dwarves would've used them ages ago to kill Smaug), and since Bard is Girion's descendant and heir, he'll have some and use them to kill Smaug. Plus, it would make a good visual link (Bard mentioning he had inherited those arrows from his ancestor), and would also emphasise that Bard is "heir to the throne of Dale". So yeah, I wouldn't mind this change in order to fit the adaptation.

    The fallout between Thranduil and the Dwarves over "white gems" is more suspicious, though - it reminds me of the clash between Thingol and the Dwarves over Nauglamír in the Silmarillion... We'll have to see how this plays out.
    Last edited by Mar17swgirl, Jun 25, 2013
  7. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    Not I. My first exposure to The Hobbit was the 1977 Rankin/Bass cartoon. So when I read the book I knew what was coming.

    Why were you were disappointed, exactly? Dale plays a part in the story as well as the Dwarves.
  8. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    It didn't say Black Arrows could pierce Dragon Scales, but it could kill a Dragon if it pierced the underside where they are softer. Smaug armouring himself underneath with bits of his hoarde is an important part of the story, so is the Black Arrow because by its very name it is different to regular arrows (which probably wouldn't do much to a Dragon, just like sticking an arrow in an Elephant or Rhino would not really bother it).

    Dwarves killing Smaug would have been OK, but less believable given he was flying around and they are puny and he would likely have just pwned them with his claws or fire or teeth very easily. This is not an ordinary creature we are talking about remember
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Jun 25, 2013
  9. Everton Chosen One

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    Although I prefer the idea that the Black Arrow was simply an arrow with which Bard had built up a degree of trust (successive generations imbuing it with their own legend), there's definitely enough room in the text for PJ to give it some custom 'special power'. Although, a type of arrow specifically capable of taking out a dragon would indeed have to be phenomenally rare... and I'd be more comfortable if it was made clear the dwarves didn't know of its existence. At all.
    Last edited by Everton, Jun 25, 2013
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  10. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    I hope Bard is a ninja in this one and during the climax, he turns to the dwarves and says "I kick *** for the Lord." before jumping in nonsensical CGI movements all over Smaug's face.
  11. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    I always assumed it was magic in some way, not especially designed for killing Dragons but capable of taking down bigger hardier things that conventional arrows can't do much to. Perhaps it works by spreading something damaging through the body very quickly, that would take out a Dragon which would normally shrug-off having an arrow stuck in it.
  12. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    I recall thinking the arrow was ancient enough to be a holdover from an earlier age, perhaps before steel was refined, and weapons were made of iron as opposed to folded steel alloy. I never ascribed much relevance to the color except that it showed how old the arrow was.
  13. Everton Chosen One

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    I never assumed it was magic. I just thought it was old. Indeed, I rather like the notion of a simple and humble (albeit treasured) arrow being the key to the downfall of a mighty dragon. Smaug's arrogance perfectly undermined. The involvement of magic rather destroys that thought.
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  14. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    Maybe they're Adamantium-coated arrows?:-B
  15. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    The point of the book to me was the Dwarves mission to the Lonely Mountains to take out the Dragon. Bard wasn't mentioned until the group reached Lake-Town. We didn't go all that way with him like we did with the Dwarves and Bilbo. Rip-off. It's similar to the end to Huckleberry Finn. Huck went on a quest by his lonesome
    Show Spoiler
    but at the end Tom Sawyer came and in solved everything.
    Complete rip-off.
  16. Everton Chosen One

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    Yes. An older piece. That'd work.
    Last edited by Everton, Jun 25, 2013
  17. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    I've never heard the term "rip-off" applied to Huck Finn or The Hobbit, or to any work of literature except meaning "plagiarized". Sorry you feel let down! Perhaps the films will expand the role of the men of Laketown and Bard's grandstanding will seem more organic to you than in the book.
    Last edited by Merlin_Ambrosius69, Jun 25, 2013
  18. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    His arrogance was still undermined because he thought he couldn't be hurt, and he was killed by one arrow which normally wouldn't hinder him a great deal.
  19. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

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    I have to agree with @Force Smuggler here on that -- when I read the book as a kid I never noticed it, but when I reread it a few months ago it seemed rather awkward. There's this massive lead-up to the climax and the dwarves are trying to figure out how to off the dragon, and suddenly they hear that Regular Joe Smucko just ninja'd their kill off-screen while they were waiting for it to come back.
    Last edited by Barriss_Coffee, Jun 25, 2013
  20. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Nothing against those two books but I just felt cheated when I read both of those parts. For someone to come in that we didn't follow for the whole novel and solve the crisis that the protagonists couldn't just seems lazy in regards to Mark Twain while fortunately for Tolkien the Dwarves were able to shine throughout the rest of the book. The Dwarves did get the place back at least but I was expecting the Dwarves to end the Dragon.
    That aside I am looking forward to the movie.
  21. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    Wait, Smaug has one point of weakness that kills him instantly...

    Obviously a rip-off of Achilles from The Illiad.
  22. Ghost Chosen One

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    Oct 13, 2003
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    Which is clearly a rip-off of the Death Star

    ;)
  23. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    We should just sue everyone and hope that it sorts itself out.
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  24. Everton Chosen One

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    Yes, his arrogance is fundamentally undermined, because he thought he was invincible... but when it's proven he's not the story is still better served, and his humiliation is more complete, by a humble arrow doing the damage than a magical arrow (designed to kill dragons).
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  25. Everton Chosen One

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    Which itself is a rip-off of the Moon.
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  26. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    IT'S A SPACE STATION