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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph One Thread To Rule Them All: The Rings of Power + The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings Trilogies

Discussion in 'Community' started by -Courtney-, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
  2. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    i waited decades for a chance to see Smaug take down Laketown on the big screen. but now I don't care. That's the magic of Peter Jackson's adaptation of The Hobbit.
     
  3. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    I didn't really have any specific expectations for Smaug, mostly because I haven't read The Hobbit. That said, I've liked him so far for the most part; he isn't one of the minor issues that I've had with these movies.
     
  4. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    They were on a downward slope, quite a steep one. These films though have seen all ground fallen away and a straight drop.
     
  5. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Go read the book, then come back and complain about the films with the rest of us.
     
  6. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    The movies are great, now go home.
     
    Grievousdude likes this.
  7. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

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    May 4, 2003
    Not even that, Random Comments. It's not like these are interesting stories that just happen to deviate from the original narrative. Even judged on their on merits, they are bloated, meandering, and unenjoyable. People are calling these movies bad because they're too far from good to merit any other description.
     
    tom likes this.
  8. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Yes to all of that, but it becomes more obvious when compared to the book. Besides, the book is just really good.
    It's a shame, too. The casting was nearly perfect, and with a decent script, these films could have been absolutely amazing.
     
  9. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    That's a good point -- the casting is excellent, especially the main players. These films just have too many side characters and subplots that are weighing down the main story. Freeman is woefully underused. Pace is underused too -- he's perfect for the part, but has been overshadowed by Bloom. Armitage and McKellen are excellent but their parts have been dragged out way too long. Gandalf should be off-screen until everyone's hour of need, not starring in his own shenanigans. Sure his battle with Sauron is important and all, but The Hobbit is not the time or place for it.
     
    tom and darthcaedus1138 like this.
  10. TrandoJedi

    TrandoJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2011
    I've read the book and I enjoy these films! But yeah, it would be nice if a film called The Hobbit was actually more focused on "the hobbit."
     
  11. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2013
    I'm holding out hope that, within two decades, another director takes a shot at Tolkien's enchanting book. A two-and-a-half hour musical may be the best approach. (And no, that's not sarcasm.)
     
  12. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 25, 2012
    There's already a musical, though it's not that long. The 90-minute animated Hobbit film.
     
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  13. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Sep 3, 2012
    Smaug looked like a cat in the Animated film
     
  14. Evil Incarnate

    Evil Incarnate Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Aug 18, 2003
    He looks like a cat in this one too.

    Evil.
     
  15. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 24, 2007
    Personally a straight up adaption of the books with none of the additional stuff would have felt like a massive let down. The story is fine but if they just did what the book did and 'wink, wink' 'nudge, nudge' to all the cool more important stuff that happened in the background I'd leave the theater rather peeved. Much prefer them adding in all the additional stuff instead of doing a separate movie for it.
     
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  16. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 25, 2012
    But they didn't actually "add in the additional stuff," they fan-fictioned over and overshadowed the real stuff.
     
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  17. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 11, 2013
    Out of curiosity: Is anyone else seriously put off by the number of hack-n'-slash battles? Jackson has this obnoxious predilection towards orc/goblin carnage, which would be fine were he adapting, say, Conan the Barbarian instead of Tolkien. How many bloody times are we to watch triumphal heroes, swords raised, colliding in slow-motion against demons? Genre filmmakers used to reserve this for their climaxes, but Jackson offers it up every twenty minutes, as if he were churning out fantasy porn.

    In the midst of this ongoing trainwreck, I find myself respecting George Lucas all the more. Even in his less-successful installments (Return of the Jedi/Attack of the Clones, IMO), there's an innovative spirit and dearth of cynicism on display. Even the most misguided creative decisions have a goofy integrity to them. But not these lumbering Hobbit behemoths. Dour. Undisciplined. Mind-numbing. An insult to Tolkien's simple, charming story about the perils of greed.
     
  18. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Some might say the whole "Republic becomes the Empire" plot is kind of cynical.
     
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  19. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 11, 2013
    Arawn Fenn: Apologies. I meant that the enterprise was cynical, not the themes therein. That is to say, Jackson's undermining of Tolkien's spirit and the studio's obvious enthusiasm for franchise expansion. This stands in stark contrast to Lucas's sextet, which may have allowed for digressions (often whimsical), but nonetheless maintained a momentum of sorts. (Let's not forget, Lucas could have easily cranked out a few more installments within that 28-year span.)
     
    Bail B. Baobab likes this.
  20. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    The stuff with Sauron and Dol Guldur and Gandalf instigating the quest to deny Sauron Smaug were all elements from additional sources other than the Hobbit. The main orc badguy is new and Tauriel is new, Legolas is there but reasonably we should assume he had a role. Again, nothing is really that different from the whole story Tolkien wrote.
     
  21. TrandoJedi

    TrandoJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 4, 2011
    Azog isn't new, but him surviving the battle of Moria is I think. I believe it is mentioned in the book (or maybe the appendices?) that Dain beheads him in that battle. Azog's son Bolg was the orc leader at the Battle of Five Armies, but now they both seem to be involved in the films.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  22. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    The whole orc subplot is new. The dwarves had to deal with goblin troubles, of course, but there wasn't an enemy stalking Thorin, and neither was that non-existent enemy then replaced by some other random orc after he was called on by Sauron. And then there's the elvish overload. The whole barrel riding sequence was more about showcasing the elves and their "awesome" archery skills than Bilbo's cleverness in freeing them. And ugh, that whole Tauriel and Kili subplot.

    And then of course there's that 10 minute madcap chase at the end of Desolation of Smaug, where Smaug chases around less than a dozen dwarves (whereas Smaug basically killed of the entire Kingdom under the Mountain in a day originally), who end up doing nothing but make Smaug angrier.

    I admit I'm a fan of the old Rankin-Bass version, and I have plenty of problems with the current Hobbit trilogy. The fact that its a trilogy is already just a blatant cash grab. Although the original book probably wouldn't fit into the mold of a modern blockbuster, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Sure, the Hobbit trilogy is based on the original book, but a lot of liberties are taken with it. I'm not entirely sure in the original book, but at the end of the first part, its not so much Bilbo saving the dwarves from some peril that earns him the dwarves' respect, no, its going in and saving Thorin from made-up orc arch-enemy (with Thorin spectacularly failing at his second attempt to use an "oakenshield").

    Yes, the Dol Guldur part is somewhat based on the book (I remember LotR mentioned Gandalf passing through there and getting the map from Thorin's father in the dungeons, so not entirely sure about the timing in the movies), but stuff like Tauriel and Legolas being in Laketown to save Kili from a curse with Kingsfoil and from orc attackers is completely new, and seems to be there just for action and soap opera scenes (oh, the love triangle between Legolas, Kili and Tauriel, oh the passion, :rolleyes: ).

    Now if you like the trilogy as an action, epic flashy action movie, fine, everybody has different tastes. But I disagree that its a good adaptation, and I don't really care for pure action that much so I don't think its that good a trilogy either. LotR had some of these problems too, just that the original LotR had more action (and substance) too, so it survived adaptation better. Hobbit, not so much, and just stretching it thinner and thinner isn't going to make it all better.

    The actors are great, and while I don't think quite that much time should be spent on Radagast (another added subplot), McCoy's acting is great and it is really nice to see Radagast on screen, since they dropped him from LotR.
     
    Mar17swgirl and Random Comments like this.
  23. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    The barrel scene is better than the book's version

    More exciting.

    Could this be a younger Gothmog from ROTK?

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Those "additional sources" are Jackson's fevered imagination. Yes, the white council meets, and takes Dol Guldur, but the timeline and actual events are completely different from the story Jackson has invented. The ringwraiths have no tombs, Azog died 200+ years before the story began, the Tauriel/Kili subplot is ridiculous, and the invention that some of the dwarves were "left behind" to further that plot is ridiculous. The whole "Smaug, the fire-breathing dragon who lives on a pile of gold, will be killed by molten gold!" idea is equally idiotic. Greenwood becomes known as Mirkwood (once Greenwood "long ago") in about a week, the dwarves hate Rivendell and have to sneak out, Radagast's bunnies can cart him o'er the misty mountains cold, no problem, and back, and over again, while the dwarves cover a few days of ground, the Giant Windlance of Doom is the macgiffin of dragonslaying, Saruman is obviously evil already, Thrain randomly can appear and be Wilhelm'd away mid-adventure, the Eagles are mute Deus ex Machinas who leave the dwarves in the one spot in the whole area that it would be hardest to go anywhere from (the mountain called the Carrock), the dwarves just aimlessly wander off the path after the Dire Warning not to wander off the path, for no reason, "Look at the Epic Elves! They're epic!" during Bilbo's triumphant rescue of the party, Legolas gets even more upstaging moments in that story that's totally about him and not that Hobbit guy, the Master of Laketown literally eats bollocks, Bard is an Epic Hero Outcast(tm) with the one Windlance Arrow(r) hidden in his house, Sauron is a man falling into an eye falling into a man....who sounds suspiciously like Smaug, Bilbo has missed the point of the quest and is confused about the dragon being awake, "Bouncing Bombur Barrels, it's a defiance of the laws of physics!", the party can fall thousands of feet three times in an hour and not get even a scratch, the goblin king...well, you know, Galadriel has magic mind-meld powers and can have long conversations with people when she isn't there, but somehow doesn't know about gandalf's death later, Galadriel can magically disappear into the air, Gandalf smashes a rock to save them from the trolls, trolls want to eat ponies that Hot Dwarves folk and Kili were supposed to guard, Protagonist Dwarves have small beards, the Ring bestows the ability to speak upon spiders, but everything other animal is mute.......and this is totally the story Tolkien wrote, nothing is really different at all, no worries.

    (Also, The Battle of the Five Armies, "The Defining Chapter in the Middle-Earth Saga," ...Really?)
     
    Mar17swgirl likes this.
  25. Evil Incarnate

    Evil Incarnate Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2003
    I'm waiting got the inevitiable 90 minute fan recut of the trilogy into the actual story.

    Evil.