main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph One Thread To Rule Them All: The Rings of Power + The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings Trilogies

Discussion in 'Community' started by -Courtney-, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Hmmm makes sense in some ways.
     
  2. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Am I right in remembering that the eagles helped Gandalf because they owed him a favour?
     
  3. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    yeah, he scored them some old toby once.
     
  4. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    In other words, the Fellowship couldn't just wing it. :p
     
  5. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    So here's a question to ponder... maybe the book gives more insight into this than the movies (or maybe I missed something in the movies).

    Near the end of ROTK, we see that Frodo has a last minute change of heart at Mount Doom (apparently due to even stronger "vibes" from the ring), and claims that the ring is his and that he will not destroy it. It actually turns out to be Gollum who inadvertently destroys the ring after he and Frodo fight over it. This makes Gandalf's earlier statements about Gollum possibly still having an important part to play very true, but does anyone besides Frodo and Sam know what actually happened there? They both (especially Frodo) get celebrated as heroes, and it doesn't seem like anyone says "well, he actually wasn't going to do it after all... he just lost the ring when Gollum attacked him, and narrowly avoided falling in with Gollum and the ring." So does this remain a secret between Frodo and Sam? Thoughts?
     
  6. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    So, in the words of Pippin, "The closer [they] are to danger, the farther [they] are from harm."
     
    Barriss_Coffee likes this.
  7. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Well, in the book Gollum just falls off the edge on his own. He gets so happy that he literally dances of a cliff. Frodo doesn't push him in that version.
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  8. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Frodo doesn't really push him in the movie either; more like they both fall while fighting. But the main point of the question was more to do with this: who (if anyone) besides Sam knows that Frodo had a change of heart, and that Gollum actually destroyed the ring, even if by accident?
     
  9. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    EHT
    Doing a quick inventory off the top of my head, I can see these character potentially knowing what went down in Mount Doom, apart from the obvious duo of Frodo and Sam, supposing that those two did not tell anyone during their stay in Minas Tirith:
    - Elrond: he's known to have visions of the future, and it wouldn't surprise me that he saw that part of it.
    - Galadriel: apart from being a powerful Elf herself, descended from none other than the High King of the Noldor, she's got her Mirror, which may have shown her the events.
    - Arwen: she's of both their bloodlines, and has seen elements of Aragorn's destiny, so why not that key event which would place her betrothed on the throne of Gondor?
    - Aragorn: he's wrenched the Palantir of Orthanc out of Sauron's control, so he could have used it to keep an eye on things going on in Mordor.
    - Gandalf: as Manwe's envoy in Middle-Earth, he may be privy to many secrets, even those he wasn't told directly.

    As to why they would have honoured the Hobbits nonetheless: seeing as the Hobbits did indeed bring the Ring all the way to Mount Doom, I think they would be inclined to overlook a last-minute mishap, especially since the mission was eventually accomplished, and at great cost to themselves (for one does not simply walk into Mordor, after all). Notice that in the Council, Elrond simply said that "the Ring must be taken deep into Mordor and cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came". At that point, I don't think he truly cared how it was achieved, only that Sauron was vanquished once and for all.
     
    tom, Sarge and EHT like this.
  10. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    The Gondor Star, Minas Tirith's most widely-published tabloid, spilled the beans on Frodo's failure. No one took them seriously.
     
  11. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Maybe Sam spends the rest of their time together in the Shire all Yoda Style, constantly needling him about his failure in the cave.
     
    Random Comments and Sarge like this.
  12. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    "The Crack... Remember your failure in the Crack!"
     
    darthcaedus1138 and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  13. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
  14. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    We set out to save the Shire, Sam and it has been saved - but not for me. Because you've been such a **** about Mt. Doom.
     
    tom, Darth_Invidious and EHT like this.
  15. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    "When gone I am....still a selfish ****ing ***hole you will be Mr. Frodo."
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  16. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    "When nine hundred miles you walk, you'd think you'd actually go through with our plans."
     
  17. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    "You know what? **** it, I'm leaving."
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  18. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Tolkien did say that Gollum had some help falling into Mt Doom though...
     
  19. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    So does that mean that the movie was pretty close to the book? Or was the "help" literally intentional?
     
  20. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Well in one of Tolkien's letters he says that Eru (God in Middle-earth) helped Frodo by pushing the Ring/Gollum (can't remember the exact wording) into Mt. Doom, basically because Frodo had gone further than else anyone in Middle-earth could have hoped to and had exerted every last ounce of his strength to accomplish the task.

    So in the movie it could be seen that Frodo was able to catch the ledge when he and Gollum fell (as opposed to Gollum or both of them) because Eru helped him like he did in the book. I don't know if that's what Jackson was going for, but since the camera cuts away when Frodo and Gollum actually fall over the ledge, that's what I interpret having happened (since I am a Tolkien purist :p ).
     
  21. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Where be the Battle of the Five Armies Extended Edition? My google-fu was fruitless on that. Fruitless! Haven't gotten the individual Hobbit movies, gonna get the whole damn EE pack like I did with LOTR. Probably take me two weeks to watch 'em all.
     
  22. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    I'd bet it's released in November - the other 2 Hobbit EE's were
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  23. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
  24. agentkrycek

    agentkrycek Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Hopefully the extra scenes won't be wasted on more Alfrid and Tauriel. [face_sick]
     
  25. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I liked Tauriel. But Afrid was annoying and creepy.
     
    Barriss_Coffee and Sarge like this.