The Hobbit: "An Unexpected Journey" & "There and Back Again"

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by PadmeLover1991, Dec 18, 2007.

  1. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    HA!

    Professional Integrity? Now who has a lack on understanding of the film making process...the average project of any of the production studios cycles through directors in the years before green light...and often pre-production sees another 1 or 2 changes in that chair,..that's why producers are important, as THEY are the ones who usually don't change. Both Lovely Bones and Tin Tin may be quality products and may be successful someday...but they will NOT be the Hobbit...they have not been a project held up in limbo of litigation because everybody knows what a jaw dropping box office mega hit it will be. And more over, they are projects he wouldn't even necessarily have to be abandon...they could be placed on hiatus...as almost a third of productions are from time to time...if Jackson were truly dedicated to "not making the fans wait".

    Professional Integrity? In this business? Do you live in the 30s? Directors walk over the dead to do the projects THEY want on THEIR timetable...if Jackson is holding to "professional integrity" it truly is a lie and full indication that he has no desire to invest his time in the Hobbit. He has stated on REPEATED occasions the monumental legacy of making the LOTR universe and giving it to the world...and to toss aside the precursor project for a couple projects that will never be the worldwide phenomena that Hobbit will be, even before a frame is in the can...it reeks of one thing...disenchantment...the stress of the fight, the length of time away...it's led Peter to just throw in the towel. Maybe he doesn't want to subject his life or his family to the strain of such a large project again...maybe he doesn't want to deal with the studio or the Tolkien estate's garbage again...maybe he just has grown weary of that world...but the fact is, he very VERY easily could sign on, and decided not to.

    Executive Producer basically is a set of eyes...they see the process and the product and they thumbs up or down like some Caesar, while the director, cast and crew hop on one foot to the other waiting to see if they pass muster. And if Jackson has his head in Lovely Bones or Tin Tin...just how much scrutiny do you think Hobbit will receive?

    Moreover, I don't believe this is the doom of the Hobbit, just cause Jackson is not in the chair...I DO believe that this means the film will have a different tone and aesthetic because it is someone else's vision...and since the vision as portrayed by Jackson was so successful...it stands that changing the formula will almost certainly equate with anger and disappointment for at least SOME of the fans.

    I mean, let's face it...there are still people out there who think ANH is a superior film to ESB...and the biggest difference was the director's chair. It will always be a slap against the Hobbit, even if it's enormously successful.

    Truth be told, I think they would probably hold Hobbit for Peter if he were truly invested in doing the directing...but he likely offered no guarantees that he would sign on to direct the project...I think people are downplaying how nasty a fight this was...how much money and reputations were on the line in this slapfest...and how much the parties would just-as-soon never speak again...It's amazing the PJ agreed to even let his name be on this project as an EP...but don't expect t
  2. Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 5
    Well, Jedimarine, it's clear you have a working knowledge of filmmaking processes... but I still strongly disagree with your reasoning. After all, The Hobbit as a book has a different tone and aesthetic value from LOTR, so it stands to reason the film version should follow suit. The STAR WARS films are also variable in tone, especially between ESB and ROTJ, or between TPM and ROTS, and certainly in aesthetic value from PT to OT. This does not invalidate any of them as films, though I understand if you disagree. What does it matter that 'some fans' will be disgruntled by the change? There will always be bellyaching in the fan community. This is not an iron-clad reason for Jackson to cast aside the projects he and Walsh have been laboring over for two+ years. I've read interviews in which Jackson discusses the arduous process of bringing his current projects to life. For you, an outsider to his circle (as I am, of course), who does not understand the lengths and breadths of effort he has been compelled to undertake in order to shape his current projects (as I do not, either), to suggest that he simply dismiss them because "oh, some of the fans will be disappointed" is unrealistic in the extreme.
  3. Sith_Lord_Linkoping Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 5
    TORN speculates on which actors they would like to see for the characters of:

    Gandalf the Grey

    Gollum

    Thorin Oakenshield

    Bard

    Smaug (Voice)

    Dwarves

    Tharanduil

    Beorn

    Bilbo Baggins

    Some of the suggestions is pretty interesting.
  4. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Martin Freeman as Bilbo would be brilliant.

    If Indy Jr. is Bilbo, i won't go see this.

    Butler and Jackman have my nod for Bard.

    Ron Perlman is a TERRIBLE choice for Thorin...just LAME. You know who COULD pull it off...brace yourself...Bruce Willis...he's aging and can play haggard pretty well...can be a jerk...but also can deliver the heartfelt sympathy...put him behind a beard, it'd be surreal. Another one I'd suggest here is Tommy Lee Jones.

    Tharanduil needs to be an "old" looking elf, so only Isaacs makes the cut in that group. Another guy I thought of that would fit here is Hugh Laurie of "House" fame...I think it could branch him out well.
  5. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    So basically, he'd play John McClane, but four feet tall and armed with a really big axe? That's kind of a fun image, actually. :p

    As for Bilbo, I have only two things to say: Ian. Holm.

    I also think that Christopher Lee should voice Smaug.
  6. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Are you freakin kidding!

    Besides, Saruman could make a cameo...and his voice isn't as easy to inflect and disguise as John Rhys Davies was with Treebeard.

    I actually kind of liked the Vin Diesel idea...he puts that creepy Pitch Black tone it it, could be good. John Hurt would be good too if they wanted to go for an older dragon voice.

    Actually, John Hurt might be a Thanaduil choice if they want a REALLY old looking elf.
  7. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    Um the masking of Davies voice was horrible...it was painfully obvious that Treebeard was Davies from the get go.
  8. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Ian McKellan and Andy Serkis need to return for The Hobbit, as does Hugo Weaving. The rest of the cast should be someone new to the series.
  9. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Is that because you knew going in...cause most people who went in not knowing didn't put the 2 together.

    There was enough difference in how the 2 voices came off...Gimli being grizzled and gruff and Treebeard more melodic and baritone.

    Saruman and Smaug would come off the same way...that smug aristocratic tone that Christopher Lee has in EVERYTHING he does...which is why Saruman and Dooku will eternally be linked in my head.

    John Rhy Davies is a character actor...he has range.

    With Christopher Lee, you get him to have Christopher Lee in your film...he brings his persona to his roles...EVERY role.
  10. Spiderfan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2004
    star 6
    Obviously not enough, as I had no foreknowledge of who was voicing the character and immediately recognized his voice...
  11. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4
    Orlando Bloom would probably Cameo.

    I think the Voice of Smaug will be crucial to this film. I heard Jeremy Irons.
  12. Kol_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2006
    star 4
    From all indications, there seems to be a 'bridge' film in the works, between 'The Hobbit' and LOTR, using all the bits and peices of Tolkien's lore.

    What do you think that this movie will be about???
  13. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    No! Jeremy Irons is the kiss of death to fantasy movies.
  14. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    The Wizards attacking Dol Guldur...Sauron re-establishing himself in Mordor...Gondor's war with the Corsairs...Aragorns first visit to Minas Tirith...perhaps the dwarves recolonization of Moria.
  15. Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 5
    ... and quite possibly, Gollum's journey from the mountains, to his capture by elves and by Aragorn, and on to Mordor and Moria....

  16. Yodas-evil-twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2005
    star 5
    Eragon sucked because the source material was only good for wiping your ***.
  17. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Dear special effects experts,

    Vermithrax from the film Dragonslayer is the best dragon effects ever put on screen. CGI is great unless it looks like a friggin cartoon in the middle of a live action film. Please do not make Smaug a cartoon dragon.

    Yours truly, Concerned Fan.
  18. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The dragon looked good in the 4th Harry Potter movie.

    Of course, I expect Smaug to be a lot larger and more menacing than that dragon.
  19. Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 5
    The CGI dragons looked brilliant in Dragonheart, HP4 and Beowulf, though admittedly the last one is in the midst of CGI everything, so you don't so much notice its cartooniness, if any.

    That said, I'm with VadersLaMent on the awesomeness of the 1982 Dragonslayer "go-motion" dragon (essentially a rod puppet), Vermithrax Pejorative!

    Maybe a belnding of the two techniques -- CG and puppetry -- is best.
  20. Kol_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2006
    star 4
    Would that make a coherent story? What would the driving thread of the story be? Who would be the overall lead character(s)?
  21. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    There really isn't one, which is why it isn't it's own book and Shouldn't be it's own movie.

    I would have to believe if they forced the issue either Gandalf or Aragorn would be the primaries...either tying Aragorn into the Dol Guldur stuff and then shipping him down river to Gondor...Or...having Gandalf involved in the Corsair war.

    The Dwarves thing would be completely outside unless Balin becomes a significant character in the Hobbit movie and they use him.

    Honestly...I don't think a second film will happen...either they are going to split the Hobbit in 2 and incorporate some of this stuff "during" the Hobbit...or they will cancel the second film...I don't see how they can weave a solid tale.
  22. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I repeat, they should call the second film Lord of the Rings: The Appendices and do it anthology style like the Twilight Zone movie (except don't kill any actors this time).
  23. JediTrilobite Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 7
    I heard some rumblings earlier on that the second movie might be the Children of Hurin.
  24. PadmeLover1991 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 1
    That would make a good movie, though it's based 1000's of years before The Hobbit, so I dunno if that would work.
  25. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Impossible...it would be completely outside the Hobbit-LOTR sphere...they might as well bust into the the full Silmarillion at that point.

    And that means complete recast...which I doubt...this is a project to go forward like LOTR did...essentially 2 movies for the cost of 1.5.