The Hobbit: "An Unexpected Journey" & "There and Back Again"

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by PadmeLover1991, Dec 18, 2007.

  1. norsemen Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2008

    Impossible? As long as there's money to be made the "Hollywood Yahoos" will try anything. But you might be more right then wrong. It would be a massive undertaking...I see spin offs up the wazzooooo! Cartoons, comics, games etc.
  2. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    There are a couple of moments in Dragonslayer where it is an obvious puppet, total screen time equals 3 seconds I think. Now, i could be wrong since I have not looked into this in awhile and my memory is being spotty, but the moment in the film where the dragonb first rears up out of the water behind Galen to it's full height after he sees it is a robot. I want to see that, but then animated enough that a speaking dragon does not look like th eone in Dragonheart. I actually liked Dragonheart, but it was too cartoony for me, and far too cartoony for my Smaug hopes. I thought the HP4 dragons were better than Dragonheart, but still below Dragonslayer.

    When I first laid eyes on the Balrog they had me. It was not a matter of 'this is good cgi' it was 'this is awesome!' The same went for Vermithrax. That's what I want for Smaug. I want to see it on a huge screen and forget that I even made this post about wanting the special effects to be convincing.
  3. Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 5
    Indeed, VadersLaMent, that first shot of Vermithrax rising out of her gorge in Dragonslayer (before toasting the unctuous priest played by Ian McDiarmid!!) is an animatronic "robot" puppet, built to-scale so that it looks exactly as big as it is. This kind of in-camera effect (meaning a physical effect that existed on the set) is rarely done anymore... which is bewildering, since Jurassic Park -- the inspiration for all such work to follow -- used puppets and animatronic stuff as much, and as effectively, as it used CGI.
  4. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Oh yes! That whole initial T-Rex scene had me the whole time. One day I expect actors will really have something to act to whe a director says ,"Ok, everyone on set," and a 100% convincing dinosaur robot walks on the stage.

    Anyway, I have to admit I have yet to see a good piece of Smaug artowrk that I really liked. I can pick out all kinds of dragon art that I love, but none of them contain a good Smaug.
  5. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Anyone see that Hobbit cartoon that Rankin and Bass did in the 80's? The Smaug in that cartoon was great in terms of size, but for some reason, he had a cat-like face. That really turned me off.
  6. Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 5
    The Hobbit cartoon is from the 70s, BTW, not the 80s! I grew up watching it -- ti was my first introduction to Middle Earth -- so for me that "cat-faced" Smaug is Smaug!
  7. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    It was highly influenced by the D&D art of the time...and it by eastern dragon concepts.

    That was Smaug to me...and moreover, in my head to difference between a "dragon" and a "wyrm" (yes I know, variations on a theme, but they are used distinctly at times) has been the cat vs. the reptile appearance...a true "dragon" will have something of the feline slickness to them.

    This, of course, is because cats are evil incarnate.[face_devil]
  8. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I loved The Hobbit cartoon adn the animated LOTR, but I would wonder if I could stand them now. Now all cartooons are good when you grow up.

    Animated Smaug: HERE

    Old D&D dragon art:

    [image=http://www.draconika.com/gallery/019.JPG]

    [image=http://www.draconika.com/gallery/149.JPG]

    [image=http://www.draconika.com/gallery/168.JPG]

    The influence is there isn't it? The interior art for AD&D dragons had more cat-like features I should point out. But, big head, little neck, huge body, wings to small for anything useful.

    Here's an old but very iconic D&D pic:

    [image=http://www.draconika.com/gallery/167.JPG]

    Here's the 3rd edition D&D red dragon:

    [image=http://www.draconika.com/img/red-dragon.jpg]

    Sweet. I love that.

    [image=http://www.cinefex.com/backissues/number6.jpg]

    ^Vermithrax

    I can't seem to find a Vermithrax image gallery so have some YOUTUBE

    And hopefull these Reign of Fire pics won't redX:

    [image=http://www.bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2002/07/reign_of_fire.jpg]

    [image=http://mag.awn.com/issue8.08/8.08images/kerlow05_reignOfFire.jpg]

    [image=http://www.bvimovies.com/regnedufeu/images/bg_splash_top.jpg]

    [image=http://content7.flixster.com/skin/profile/68/78/29/6878297_profile_mbox_background.jpg]



  9. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    QFT. Reign of Fire has good looking dragons.
  10. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    And realistic looking too. Now take that pic of the bull dragon and try to put a voice to it. A voice too human will fail, but then again it must be articulate. I have a doubt here because, for example, the creatures ridden by the black riders had a very annoying screech rather than a scary one. The Witch King of Agmar? Not intimidating.

    Like the Predators? "What the hell are you?" "Take it." Creature + human. But will something like that do for Smaug?
  11. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Predators voiced, BTW, by Mr. Peter Cullen, AKA Optimus Prime.
  12. Sith_Lord_Linkoping Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 5
    I hope It's not true. del Toro is IMO an overrated director. I've seen all his films and the only one that's really good is Hellboy.


  13. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Get ready for some creepy stuff if he does it.

    and he will mess with Golum...I'll tell you that right now...he'll want to make him more sinister or more bizarre. We'll get a Pan's Labyrinth vibe one way or another.

    Which is sad, cause Hobbit was actually lighter fare then LOTF...and now it'll be the dark half-brother.
  14. LilyHobbitJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 2005
    star 5
    Not necessarily, since Jackson is executive producer he wouldn't let Del Toro mess with a Gollum that worked very well in the LOTR trilogy.
  15. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Except Jackson fully understands how frustrating it can be to direct with folks breathing on your neck. I suspect he'd respect Del Toro's ability and stay out of it.

    If Jackson was that concerned about preserving something from LOTR...he'd direct the thing himself.
  16. raisedbywolves Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2005
    star 2
    Del Toro??

    I for one hope this is true. Loved both "Hellboy" and "Pan's Labyrinth".

    As for the creepiness... bring it! [face_skull]
  17. JediTrilobite Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 7
    Jackson as a producer would have less creative control over Toro's Hobbit. Personally, I'd applaud this, because Del Toro is a brilliant director - Pan's Labyrinth is one of the best Fantasy movies out there. His style fits really well with Jackson's, who has his own paticularly creepy style anyway. Toro's Hobbit will be different than Jackon's LOTR, that should be expected. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
  18. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    The aniated Gollum in The Hobbit was pretty creepy so if Del Toro does make him more sinister then it's all good as far as I am concerned.

    I have to say, I thought Gollum was some kind of frog creaturerather than a very degenerated being in The Hobbit cartoon.

    A slight correction from above:

    I loved The Hobbit cartoon and the animated LOTR, but I would wonder if I could stand them now. Not all cartooons are good when you grow up.
  19. Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 5
    I'm a fan of Del Toro and I think the choice, if it sticks, is a good one. If he can recapture the filmmaking aplomb he showed in Blade 2 -- which has a paper-thin plot but is absolutely brilliantly shot and edited -- then his Hobbit will be a visually stylish and emotionally moving experience.
  20. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    I never saw the Blade Trilogy, but I did see Pan's Labyrinth. If that movie is any indication, The Hobbit will film for the ages.
  21. Twinky_Stryder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2003
    star 4
    I hadn't thought about Del Toro's afinity for creepyness. I always preffered the Hobbit's light-heartedness and sense of being an enjoyable romp and I really hope that doesn't get lost.
  22. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    I *shuddered* when I read about his connection to Blade II. But you're right: the story was rubbish, but it was otherwise OK. To make it more enjoyable, I suggest reading the Evil Overlord List just prior to watching the movie. You'll laugh your hiney off.
  23. Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 5
    There are those who hate Blade 2 and those who love it unabashedly. Count me in the latter camp. Even if it's an insipid vampire action movie, it's so beautifully and stylishly put together it transcends its stereotypical genre form and becomes a work of art.

    Combine del Toro's excellent filmmaking skills with a truly excellent story like the Hobbit, and you've got cinematic gold!
  24. Sith_Lord_Linkoping Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 5
    TORN reports that it's not 100% certain that del Toro directs the two films but that It's 99% certain.
  25. Sith_Lord_Linkoping Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 5