main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

The Image of Vader

Discussion in 'Archive: Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by REBEL_SKUM, Jun 22, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. REBEL_SKUM

    REBEL_SKUM Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2000
    Something that I have been wondering about recently is the stages that vader goes through in the saga. In episode I Vader is a small child, with a lot promise but very little power... in episode II a young adult who is comming into his own, and has issues of rage.

    Skip past episode III we have no gaps to fill in currently, however when we get to ANH we see a vader who is powerful, somewhat mysterious, however he seems to have very little power in the grand scale of things, the emporer is no where to be seen, and he seems to be under the control of Tarken, who from what we can gather must be second in command.

    In ESB vader seems to be at his most powerful, he is strong fearful, and in control, with hints of being ordered around by the emporer

    In ROTJ vader seems to be completely at the whim of the emprorer, thinks very little for himself, and seems to be a shell of his ESB self. HIs final moments are that of a vulnarable and for the firs time in the OT we can now see him as human.

    what's interesting however is that seemingyl in EP III we will see the full strenght of vader for the first time in the PT and perhaps have a great deal of fear towards him.

    I wonder however in looking at the power that sidious' apprentices have in the previous movies, why vader will slip to what seems to be third in command in ANH, perhaps it is a matter of establishing himself, perhaps tarken is someone who will rise up out of no where, and prove himself politicaly or in other ways.

    I think that without having Tarken in EP III you can show a vader who perhaps is every bit of who he was in ESB and all of the sudden have him return to ANH vader

    Just a couple of thoughts that I had, curious if anyone has some insights into this
     
  2. hew

    hew Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 1999
    Has there ever been any official confirmation on what Tarkin's role actually was, and whether or not he outranked Vader?
     
  3. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    I dunno, but I always assumed that Tarkin was essentially the head of the Imperial Navy, which gave him a lot of power.

    What exactly was Vader's role in the Empire? Did anyone, including Vader, Tarkin, and Palpatine really know?

    Tarkin had a definite position, and he had decades of military (and thus political) experience.

    I think one reason Vader appeared to have so much power in ESB is that Palpatine essentially let him carry out a mission to find Luke (and thereby the Republic) - it was kind of like find one, find the other as well.

    Plus, Palpatine had suspicions that there might now exist a chink in Vader's armor of Sith loyalty - if Luke was to be turned, then it would happen right in front of Palpatine - he didn't want Vader to try to turn him alone.

    Vader always seemed very mysterious and powerful to me - there's a reason why he's always ranked as one of the top villains of all time.

    But I agree that we'll get to see him younger and stronger, and that could be really scary.
     
  4. schwenny69

    schwenny69 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 23, 2003
    Tarkin was by far higher ranked than Vader, note how he told Vader to stop choking that fool on the death star.
     
  5. Mech-E_Jedi

    Mech-E_Jedi Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Historically, looking at ANH as a stand alone story, Tarkin's role was the mastermind and Vader was his muscle.

    The movie is a hit and fans scream for a sequel: Enter ESB.

    Now Lucas has a problem: Vader is not the Mastermind of the galaxy. Vader is a queen on the galactic chess board, but Tarkin got killed off in movie number 1. GL needs a new mastermind: Enter The Emperor which now serves as the galactic puppetmaster holding Vader's leash.

    The point here is that everyone of the movies shows Vaderkin in a subservient role, until he pitches his master down the shaft which leads to his ultimate death and his ultimate freedom.


    .
     
  6. Darth_Balor

    Darth_Balor Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Vader's official rank throughout the OT never changes he was the Sith Apprentice, AND heir to the throne,second only to Palpatine. The Empire is essentially a Sith empire, Palpatine as Sith Master is also Emperor of the Galaxy, if Palpatine had died in his sleep Vader would have become not only the new Sith Master but also the New Emperor.

    Grand Moff Tarkin however,is the Commanding Officer of the Death Star and just because the heir to the throne happens to be on board the station it doesn't change the fact that he is in charge. it's called the chain of command, and Vader respects this fact.

    An example would be Prince Charles in the UK, he is both heir to the throne and a high ranking Naval officer. If he decided to visit a British warship, say HMS Ark Royal, the fact that Charles is a Rear Admiral or similer rank and of a far higher rank than the commanding officer of the ship, he knows to defer to the commisioned commanding officer.

    Hope that helps.
     
  7. Danny77573

    Danny77573 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2002
    Exactly. Vader is not military. Vader is just a henchman. But do you want to upset a favorite of the emporor, title or not? no, but Vader understands he is not in the military panning department. He is essentially an errand boy with unbelievable powers.

    In ANH, his only mission was to find the rebel plans( which apparently palpatine even lied to Vader about whether they were stolen or not.)

    In ESB, his only mission was to find the rebels (early) which would lead him to Luke Skywalker, the guy responsible for blowing up the death star and the only threat to the emporor.

    In ROTJ, Vader is still looking for luke, but in this one, his mission is to brink Luke to the emporor. As opposed to just find him.


    As we see, Vader's jobs were that of personal importance to Palpatine, but Tarkin had an entire galaxy to instill fear in. Vader let him do his job, and Tarkin allowed Vader leeway because of who he was.
     
  8. Darth-Dispicable

    Darth-Dispicable Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2003
    I am hoping to see a strong, fierce and angry Anakin in EP3, until now he has been to much like Luke (a complainer) for me to like.

    I am hoping that we will have the image of Anakin as a deadly and powerful Sith by the end of EP3, I think that it would be vital to make a smooth transition into ANH.
     
  9. obi_wan_kanathan

    obi_wan_kanathan Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    Vader probably was second in command, but he was a guest on the Death Star. Tarkin was the one in command. So Vader was supposed to listen to Tarkin.

    Normally, I'm sure that Vader would have still ignored Tarkin's request to release the officer, but I'm sure that Palpatine also told Vader to obey Tarkin. Tarkin was someone that the Emperor wanted to stay alive, and with the Death Star under his control, happy also.

    In ESB and ROTJ, Vader was in command of the fleet so he could do whatever he wanted with them.
     
  10. Darth-Dispicable

    Darth-Dispicable Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2003
    That is true, it does seem that Palpatine just let Vader take control of the fleet. I Think he did a decent job of it until the fleet lost the battle for Endor and the Executioner rammed into the Death Star :D, but then again Vader was busy killing the Emporer at the time so I guess that dosn't count.
     
  11. Adali-Kiri

    Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Mech-E ---

    Vader was never the Mastermind in Star Wars, not even in ANH. Lucas did not invent the Emperor for TESB. Not only is the presence of the Emperor tangible in the novel, but he is even refered to in the dialogue of the film. Tarkin informs the Death Star commanders that the Emperor has disolved the Senate for good. This completes the job Palpatine has been on since TPM, and leaves everything wide open for Tarkin and the newly finished battle station.

    Both Vader and Tarkin work for the Emperor, but it is Tarkin who commands the Death Star. Vader is on Tarkin's turf, and I don't think Vader has any ambition to run a battle station - his concerns are far greater than that. In TESB however, we join Vader on a mission to find the new Rebel base, and eventually to find the young Skywalker. This is a very different situation. It's field work, which always seemed to be what Vader was most comfortable with. Even in ANH, it's like he's positively itching to get off the Death Star and fight the Rebels ship to ship, as well as facing his old master Kenobi in a lightsaber duel.

    No problems, as far as I can see.

    TPM: Slave boy discovered by the Jedi. Good kid, great powers.
    AOTC: Apprentice to Kenobi. Impatient youth with great powers and much anger and frustration.
    EPIII: Seduced to the Dark Side. Falls out with Kenobi/Jedi and becomes a Sith Lord. Destroys the Jedi.
    ANH: Henchman for the Sith Empire.
    TESB: Hunts his son Luke, who is growing strong with the Force.
    ROTJ: Is confronted by Luke and defeated. returns to the Light and kills Palpatine.

    Great story, great character. Classic! :)
     
  12. JediHunterCommand

    JediHunterCommand Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Vader's influence grows as the saga unfolds.

    In ANH, he's got some authority, but he's not in supreme command. Tarkin is in charge of the Death Star, and Vader is on the Death Star, so essentially Vader is on Tarkin's turf. Also, people haven't quite caught on that Vader can kill them with impunity, without fear of repurcussions.

    In ESB, Vader's in charge -- certainly of the task force chasing the Rebels, if not of the whole fleet. His rivals are either dead on the Death Star or offscreen -- he's on his own turf now, his own personal ship. Also, his reputation for summarily executing failures is more clearly established.

    In ROTJ, he's clearly number two man. And it's very well-known that he'll kill anyone that doesn't get it right. But then the Emperor arrives. It's kinda like having your boss looking over your shoulder. Of course Vader has power of his own, but the Emperor is very present, which might be inconvenient -- especially if Vader has his own agenda.
     
  13. Boss1

    Boss1 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2003
    I really Don't think Vaders postion in ANH is that hard to understand. He is second in command... It is no different when the President of the USA visits a military base or a battleship... Even though he is commander and chief, he is not there to interfere with the over all operation of that facility... Vader was only there to make sure thing were running smoothly and on schedule for his master.

    I don't think that makes him a lackey... It shows that he trust the decisions the emperor make about running the galaxy.. Isn't that what he told Padme, he believed someone wise and powerful should be in charge, thus he backs palpy...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.