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The Imperial Knights thread *SPOILERS*

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Charlemagne19, Jan 14, 2007.

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  1. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    So the first story arc is done with the Imperial Knights and we've gotten ourselves a look at what they're capable of, what they do, and what they think. What's your impressions of them?

    What I note is the above.

    1. They have rejected Jedi Orthodoxy: This is a fundamental facet of them. The Imperial Knights wear armor and embrace war as a means of statecraft, swear allegiance to the Empire instead of the Republic/Force, reject the individuality of lightsabers, and apparently the belief that the Sith are innately evil while the Jedi are innately Good (they may have reconsidered this last part)

    2. They may or may not be separate from the Imperial Guard: The Royal Household is trained as Imperial Knights but thus far we've only seen his Majesty's bodyguards seperately from the Imperial Knighthood. It may be there's Grand Moffs and other folk whom are Imperial Knights but its very possible that the Knighthood consists of only the Royal Guard and the Fel family.

    3. They disdain the original Jedi Knights: Their reaction to Shado seems to indicate this and some comments in 0#.

    4. They have really poor emotional control: Good Lord Antares is always on the verge of flipping out isn't he? Everyone else is constantly in a state of emotional turmoil too with the exception of Emperor Fel whom you could freeze water on. Shado and Wolf on the other hand are treated as Liu Bei Ma serene.
     
  2. FTeik

    FTeik Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2000
    I think it highly suspicious, that it took more than 25,000 years for a government to get its own Force-users.
     
  3. Rouge77

    Rouge77 Jedi Knight star 5

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    May 11, 2005
    Not a government really; the Imperial Knights seem to be Fel family property. As long as the Fels are in power, they serve the government, but when the head of government changes to a person who is not a member of the Fel family, they continue to serve the Fels. And as Fels are Imperial Knights themselves, one could say that the Imperial Knights never served the government, as one of them was leading it. They worked with it, but were apparently under the personal command of the Emperor and not subjected to the government structure as such.

    One could ask what difference is there if an Emperor, who is an Imperial Knight and has IKs as minions, gets replaced by an Emperor, who is a Sith and has Sith as minions? The government stays the same, the Force using group affiliated with it changes. Same with the Jedi: If IKs and Sith are the governments own Force users, then so were the Jedi in Old and New Republics and in the GA. And if the Jedi were not the governments own Force users, then the IKs and Sith are not either. In all cases then these groups happen to be connected and work to some extent with the government.
     
  4. RafVader

    RafVader Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2007
    I'm hoping the IKs are Jensaarais without the head gear. Plus it goes along with the whole thought of Sith teachings in the Jensaarai. Again, I go to the Sith code of having passion. Question on a different note...does anyone know the Jensaarai code?
     
  5. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I don't think that they're going to taint the essence of the Imperial Knights with Sith teachings. Fundamentally, the Sith teach self over the world. That goes against the Imperial Knights that teach submission above all other things. The Sith is the antithesis of the IK even more than the Jedi.
     
  6. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    "Embracing" war may be a bit strong. At this point it seems they rather have accepted it. The Empire saw a breach of treaty, saw the Vong as a threat, and reacted accordingly. (The Treaty of Anaxes was elaborated on a bit by Jon in another thread.) This seems to be in keeping with the "pragmatic" element of becoming more officially tied to the actual governing body. We also don't know what their views on the Sith are, yet. We know they believe in the dark side, and are considered gray Jedi, not heretical followers of the Potentium, so I'm beginning to wonder if the Empire, in its arrogance, thought they could contain and control the Sith. Hopefully in issue #8 we'll learn more about the Sith's role in the war. And relationship with the Empire.
    Alternately, the Royal Household may only be IK's because they are Force sensitive, which is to say, it's not necessary that the Emperor is an IK. There seem to be a greater number of them than are necessary simply for the Royal Guard but, then again, it would seem from Crimson Empire that the Royal Guard is involved in more than guarding royalty.
    Well we're told Sigel disdains them, or at least sees them as useless, but the fact that this was considered worth mentioning in Sigel's characterization suggests to me that it's not necessarily characteristic of the entire organization. Wolf's statement "Not after Ossus" suggests to me that relations between the GA and the Empire and, likewise, the Jedi Knights and the Imperial Knights was fairly amicable before the war, and until Ossus they weren't considered necessarily "bad." I use the Vao twins as an example of this, a lot: they were both rescued by the Mission, but one became a traditional Jedi. Later Sia seems to have no problems with the Jedi, and the Empire extends a hand to Shado and Wolf. I think, if anything, Draco's statement that a Jedi is no match for an IK has a lot to do with the underlying beliefs that caused the break in the order to begin with, plus a lot of anger. Remember, Antares says "I don't care if you are a Skywalker, you keep your filthy hands off her!" implying that, normally, the Skywalker name carries respect among the Imperial Knights. Also, Ganner, for example, doesn't really seem to take issue with the Jedi.
    Antares is a loose cannon, and it's interesting to me that he's the head of the order, because Ganner is cool as ice. I think there's a lot going on here that doesn't have to do with the IKs in general: Antares is not only devoted to the Royal Family above all else, but he's also in love with Sia, who has fallen in with two Jedi - who we can see he's not entirely keen on, especially after the war - and a bunch of space riff-raff. On top of that, he insubordinated the Emperor h
     
  7. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    I've been reading Legacy off the racks here and there... but I don't own any issues to go back and reference. And I didn't read #0, but the IKs are pretty cool. So are the Jedi of the era. The Sith, on the other hand, I find more than a bit off-putting. If nothing else due to their apparent love of all things BDSM and gothic face paint. Marylin Manson Sith are lame, in my opninion.

    What is cool about the IKs is their armor harkens back to the Shadows of the Empire Luke figure in the Coruscant special stormtrooper red disguise. Red armor, small cape off the shoulder. Very similar visually.
     
  8. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Their armor can seem GWAR-tastic, at times, but I've never minded. The thing I like about the face paint is that Jan and Jon have revived the idea of Sith tatoos that seemed so cool back in TPM and that got forgotten about.
    It also resembles the armor the Royal Guards wore underneath their robes.
     
  9. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Sorry for the double-post, but I wanted to respond:
    When one swears allegiance to the leader of a government, is not legitimacy generally implied? They swore allegiance to the Emperor. Krayt betrayed and usurped the Emperor. They continue to serve their Emperor. I don't think the fact that the Emperor is a Fel or a Force user has anything to do with it.
     
  10. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    The nature of coups always makes sure that there's a question of legitimacy. In the case of the Moff council, they had every right to overthrow Fel for his deeds.
     
  11. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Oh, of course, which is why there still appear to be some good men out there unfortunately serving the Sith. The IKs, on the other hand, have chosen to side with Fel.
    Well we don't really know if there are any "deeds" for him to be overthrown for, but it seems that the Council rather overthrew Fel in favor of the perpetrators of most of the naughty "deeds." Perhaps they had the right, but that's not why they overthrew him.
     
  12. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    Yes, his deeds of not making Morlish Veed Emperor!
     
  13. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 8, 2005
    I was SHOCKED at the lack of emotional control they have. Antares deciding to go rescue Sia.....reasonable. I can see that. His actions in Legacy 7? This guy is borderline dark side. "Make this ship go fast or I will kill you myself." "Get your filthy hands off her." Punching Cade...that sort of thing. I wonder if this is the temperment of all of the IK's though. I noticed that Ganner seems to be a tad more stable. Example #1. "Let me join you. Let me help, it must help." "Antares...no...it can't." Example #2. When Missionary Vao comes back to talk with the Knights she is addressing Antares but speaking to Ganner in a display that seemed like "Please make your friend act sensibly."

    One thing that seemed obvious, the training and ideals of the IK's do not allow them to be as powerful as the Jedi. They appear to have no healing abilities and I have no doubt that if it would have come to blows Shado would have been able to butcher those two in a second.

    As a side question, what is that language that Syn and Cade use on occasion? "Uma Ji Muna, Blue." type statements. Is that a trade language of some sorts?

    Carnage
     
  14. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I think that the Imperial Knights are a group that isn't terribly old by the fact that Antares is their leader. You aren't going to see any Yoda's here. They seem to have been fairly recently created and it wouldn't surprise me if the reason that Emperor Fel is referred to as a Jedi and Imperial Knight is the fact that he could be the founder of the order.

    Perhaps he is the first force sensitive member of the Fel lineage?
     
  15. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Antares' behavior is, I think, one part personality and two parts emotional investment.
    The do have healing abilities - Ganner is helping Shado and Wolf when Antares storms in and offers to help, himself. It's possible that Wolf and Shado just happen to be more adept at healing, or that the IKs don't concentrate on those skills as much.
    Jan says Huttese.
    It just occured to me, reading your post, that perhaps the Imperial Knights are only as old as the Sith Imperial War, and that Roan Fel was a fully trained, traditional Jedi Master before the IKs were formed.
     
  16. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    After a century, I think it understandable if the Empire's currently-active Anakin Solo ghola is showing an edgy hint of clone madness. :p

    What I find more interesting is that the Ben Skywalker clone he's teamed with (red hair worn in a tail, green eyes, Skywalker chin) isn't showing the same symptoms, but maybe it's hiding behind his steely self-control. He certainly seems to talk a lot while hewing Sith in half with his lightsaber...

    As to why Antares is in charge, he seems to have the charisma to persuade the otherwise sane-seeming Ganner to follow him to Vendaxa (unless... Ganner/Sia? o_O) and we were told in Legacy #0 that he's pretty impressive when it comes to starfighters and lightsabers - probably, he's simply wildly good at what he does. Also, and I don't think its unconnected, Antares is living the Imperial Knights' POV, caught between trusting his feelings/instincts and following the authority of the people he recognizes as leaders/mentors, a different sort of "balance of the Force" than the ones the Jedi usually define, but one that's an inevitable part of real life.

    Thus far, have his choices been wrong?

    Sigel Dare, thus far, has been "Sir Not Appearing In This Story Arc". Perhaps we can get [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Innes]Neil Innes[/link] to write a silly song?

    Interesting... [face_thinking] o_O

    - The ImperialEwok
     
  17. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2005


    Interesting theory that the Knights are very recently formed. If Roan Fel is a traditionally trained Jedi Master though he is not a very good one. Conspiring with Sith probably isn't at the top of the list of things to do. Also, no Jedi Knight would ever put a Duplicate of himself on the throne if he believed he was in danger. He basically resigned this person to death to save his own skin.

    Carnage
     
  18. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Again, he's not just a Jedi, he's a born and bred Imperial, and, apparently, a cunning leader/military strategist.
     
  19. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    As Pre-Fall Dooku shows, there's plenty of Jedi whom are willing to be ruthless in order to better rule their society. Just because he might be a Jedi (and he IS cold blooded enough to pass for serene) doesn't mean that he's necessarily a nice person. Besides, ruling over a state requires you to be willing to do the occasional bad thing.

    I can imagine the circumstances might also have had him cross some definite boundaries a normal Jedi might not be willing to do so. Let's face it, if he was a traditional Jedi Master then at some point he chose to found the Imperial Knights as a breakaway sect.
     
  20. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 8, 2005
    Not even Dooku (Pre-Sith days) would have had an innocent person die in his stead. I don't believe that this act is necessarily EVIL , but it is not something a Jedi would do.

    Carnage
     
  21. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I can see Jedi Knights justifying sending someone to their deaths if they felt that they were needed elsewhere. On the other hand, there's nothing that indicates that Fel may not have made some decidedly un-Jedi like decisions in recent years. He could be doing a Quinlan while everyone looks at him like a rock.
     
  22. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Yep. And I'd imagine the Vong incident drove a lot of Jedi, like the followers of Revan during the Mandalorian Wars, into Fel's camp.
     
  23. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 28, 2006
    Ever read Yoda: Dark Rendezvous? They actually hire an actor that played Yoda in some theatrical production to be a decoy for Ventress... he was damn near vaped over some planet while Yoda was off hiding in an astromech shell on a galactic cruise ship!

    Also, I got the impression from the Wook that the Imperial Knights were only as new as when Fel called on the Jedi to surrender and pledge allegiance to him after capturing Coruscant.
     
  24. LtNOWIS

    LtNOWIS Jedi Master star 4

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    May 19, 2005
    The Jedi were pretty cozy with the government at times, like during the New Sith Wars. Also, the Emporer had a wide variety of force-using minions, such as the Inquisitors.
     
  25. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I think its a simple case that anyone who taps into the PURE UNLIMITED POWER of the Force tends to have higher concerns than what a government thinks of them.

    Doctor: *while rolling his eyes and frothing* We have the power to do anything we like. Absolute power over every particle in the universe. Everything that has ever existed or ever will exist, as from this moment. Are you listening to me, Romana? Because if you're not listening, I can make you listen. Because I can do anything. As from this moment there is no such thing as free will in the entire universe -- there is only my will, because I possess the Key to Time.

    Romana: Doctor are you alright?

    Doctor: *goes back to normal in an instant* Well of course I'm alright but what if I wasn't?
     
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