The importance of the "melting pot" sequence

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Gry Sarth, Jul 15, 2002.

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  1. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    I agree, it should have been less subtle.

    This is where the strenght of a book is, we would be able to know what Padmé was thinking in that moment, and it wouldn't take me 4 viewings to figure it out...
  2. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    The mythological and symbolic elements have always been subtle. All the mythological influences from Joseph Campbell aren't apparent until you look at it.
  3. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    Yes, but Padme's motivations are not simply to support the mythological subtext. They are an important part of her characterization and should be treated as such.
  4. Jake_Barnes Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 4
    Good God. It's not hidden and it's not hard to understand. Children can understand Padme's motivations - looming mortality shifting towards thoughts of love. Simply because there might be a deeper cultural meaning, does not imply that Lucas failed in his characterization.


  5. Luke_Clone Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2002
    star 4
    I think this is a good interpretation of those sequence of events. Her confession is "out of the blue"... she's about to die and has nothing to lose. I think that Padme obviously has "feelings" for Anakin, even after the Tusken slaughter, and their situation allows her to overlook that incident. Yes you can argue that her actions are illogical (thanks Dr. Spock) but, heck, "Why do fools fall in love?" We already know that the marriage ends badly... there is a reason for that you know. If it was a "healthy" relationship I doubt that the marriage would turn out the way we all know it must. :[face_sigh]: I hope Lucas gives a nice, in-depth, commentary on the DVD.

    That being said: don't bash the bashers... please. :) It's not constructive, and it makes Elfstar mad. j/k Elfstar ;) Seriously though.
  6. ElfStar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2001
    star 4
    I don't think it's obvious at all, if a thread hasn't been made about it until now, and the person who posted this only noticed after the fourth viewing.

    And Luke-Clone is right, don't make me mad! :p I have, um, uh, a mod! Yes, a mod who's uh, my friend, and he''ll make you go far away! So there! :p

    Seriously, though, why am I considered an AotC basher? I gave it 3 stars in the poll. Is anyone who sees flaws in the film now considered a basher?
  7. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
  8. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    I think there's a bit of misunderstanding here, what is being discussed as being soubtle or not is not the fact that Padmé accepts her love for Anakin because they might die any minute, but the fact that the melting pot scene adds depth and more belivebility (sp) to this, and is where these feelings start evolving, which will culminate in her "truly, deeply" speech.
  9. Falls_the_Shadow Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 3
    Gry Sarth and MMachiavel,

    Good call. With the other dangers, she had a chance of survival with her own skills. For example, she figured out the timing of the die press so she could jump while it was in the up position. With the crucible, she was at the mercy of fate: the walls were too high and too smooth for her to climb and Anakin could not help her.

    I saw the scene as justifying that line as Anakin and Padme begin the refugee trip: "Don't worry, we have R2 with us." In many ways, Anakin and Padme are falling into a mess that they cannot escape on their own. The R2 rescue and the Clone rescue are both examples of "deus ex machina" (god in the machine):
    1 : a god introduced by means of a crane in ancient Greek and Roman drama to decide the final outcome
    2 : a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty (definition from www.m-w.com)

    In contrast, in ROTJ, Luke uses the Force to move C3PO about (remember, the Ewoks thought C3PO was a god), but it is Luke who is in control. The god only appears to be in the machine.

    Some have mentioned the possible future Anakin lava bath: maybe Padme will be a particpant? :(
  10. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4


    Not only have I enjoyed Gry Sarth's excellent insights, but the side show on this thread has been engaging as well from Pooja, foxbatkller and others ;)

    I was especially entertained by fox's "play the role of the basher"...lol Brilliant!

    I never made some of the connections mentioned here and God knows I've seen the film plenty of times. This thread just makes me want to see it again and groove on all the new info.

    34 months until Episode III. 34 months of waiting! (in my best Charleton Heston):

    Damn you George Lucas! Damn you to hell!

    [face_laugh]
  11. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    D-K LOL :D

    Falls_the_Shadow excellent analysis. You know we all go over the love story and every tiny aspect that shows that Padme is in love with Anakin in the official Love Story Thread, so I don't plan to rehash out much here. All I can tell you is that, thanks to Gry Sarth, I think the melting pot was finally the last straw for Padme, it made her realize that she had absolutely nothing to lose by revealing what was in her heart to Anakin.

    The best thing about the scene above all else though, is that Padme never once yells for Anakin's help. She does everything she can to try to escape on her own. When she sees the nozzle thing over her, she accepts that she is going to die without screaming. What other films out there have heroines who are that strong? Even Riply and Sarah Conner scream. It makes you truly appreciate Padme's line, "I'm not afraid to die" all the more. It also shows you she truly is Leias mother, and shows where Leia gets her strength.

    People endlessly debate NP's acting abilities in the film and personally I think she did a marvelous job. The problem is she expresses things with her facial expressions instead of breathing life into her lines. This seems a bit flat to some people, but if you really watch her closely, she's quite brilliant.

    Unfortunately as Gry Sarth point out, it takes multiple viewings before you catch things. It's personally what I love about Star Wars. There is so much going on that each time you watch any of the films you catch something new, however subtle or tiny the detail. With each new chapter, things we knew as fact are called into question. We all need to heed Yoda's advice and "unlearn what you have learned."
  12. Wuffy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    I think it's interesting that many critics and bashers hold SW to a standard that they feel it can never attain, and then there are those who say the film is too subtle.

    In literature, good drama, and great cinema, subtlety is key. All the SW films, and AOTC in particular, allow the audience to infer a great many things from a text that is constrained by time and design. We can deduce through subtle cues most of the love story. Whether that should have been the case or not, that's another thread. We can deduce that Dooku is the jedi who erased the files, impersonated Sifo-Dyas, and hired Jango as Tyranous without him convienently tying all that up for us right before laying some smack on Obi Wan & Anakin.

    I enjoy these films because you can watch them six times and then someone will post a thread like this, and you go, whoa! I never saw that. A seventh screening is required.

    I think the factory scene ends up being hugely significant. Whereas the clone chambers on Kamino are in essence the birth of an empire, the droid factory is the birth of the rebellion. It foreshadows not only Anakin's becoming Vader, but Padme's baptisim of fire. She sheds her skin here, and decides to live for herself; thus, she sets herself on the path that will give the galaxy its salvation from Palpatine. There is much more being born in that factory than droids.

    Darb
  13. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    Gry Sarth you brought out the poets here- great post Wuffy!
  14. Wuffy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Here's a wild thought that just occured to me. 3-PO essentially goes to 'the dark side' when he gets a headswap in the factory. His story oddly mirrors Anakin's. Get ready for a stretch:

    In EP1, 3-PO firsts meets his mate, R2. They are then separated for ten years.

    In EP2, 3-PO is reunited with R2 and descends briefly to the darkside.

    In EP3, 3-PO will either consciously or unconsciously 'forget' his former self.

    Yeah, so that's a stretch. Anyway, just another observation from the endlessly fascinating factory scene.

    Darb
  15. KosmicKnine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Wow people. This is such a great thread. I want to thank Gry Sarth, MachinatingMachiavel, Jake_Barnes, Falls_the_Shadow, PadmeLeiaJaina, and Wuffy for such great posts. You have given me much to think about.

    I've always loved the Padmé character since I first saw her on the TPM trailer. I was blown away (and still am) by how young she was but was insistant to her advisors that she wasn't going to do something to start a war. It makes me really think about what qualities a good leader should have.

    Now I have more to think about when it comes to her inner strength thanks to you all. I had always thought there was something special with the "lava pot" scene, but I couldn't ever put my finger on it.

    In TPM, we saw Padmé grow in inner strength in terms of a leader. Now, in AotC, we see her grow in terms of personal strength. She's "been the job" for so long, but now she's learned that what she wants in life outside of the job is also important. She values her friends and family. We're shown that when she's leaving Coruscant for Naboo where instead of being concerned for her life, she's busy concerned for Dormé and Typho's safety. It's the same concern for others at the expense of herself that causes her to quickly decide to leave Tatooine and go to Geonosis to attempt to save Obi-Wan.

    It's this value for others that leads me to think that it very likely might be Padmé who decides that Luke and Leia should be split up and hidden from Vader.

    Either way, she is one smart cookie. She was on to Dooku being shady quite a bit before the Jedi even realized it. She starts the movie opposed to the creation of an army because she know it will only bring about trouble; and from the OT we see she was clearly right.

    I think the character of Padmé is one of the greatest I've encountered. Thanks for bringing more of the depth of her to my attention. :)
  16. LightBird51 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
    While on Tatooine, waiting for Anakin to return, Padme had time to think about her feelings for Anakin. And wondering if he would be killed perhaps awakened feelings in her to help her reach the conclusion that she was developing a very strong attachment to him. Then, there in the melting pot, not only was she facing death, but she knew that nearby, Anakin was also facing death and she knew that she might lose him. This might have been what it finally took to convince her of her love for Anakin. The thought of life without him.
  17. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    Lightbird WAHHHHH!!!!! Thanks for depressing me, wait that is the job for EP 3.
  18. LightBird51 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
    I'm sorry. Really, that wasn't my intention.
  19. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    Music Starts:

    "ooooh, I just died in your arms tonight...it must have been something you ate...I just died in your arms"

    Flock of Seagulls
  20. LightBird51 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
  21. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    Gry Sarth: great thread!

    The melting pot ceratinly adds to Padme's feeling that life can end at any minute. I think we also tend to forget that she has been the target of repeated assasination attempts for the last month or more; has seen her loyal decoy get killed. And she has always selflessly served others; never lived life for herself till now. She KNOWS that life is very fragile and that love and compassion (for Anakin) is ultimately all that there is.

    What a short time of happiness those two ultimately had.
  22. grendelsfork Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    Nice observations there Gry Sarth, i must say i agree with your thoughts on Padmes state of mind for her love confestion.
  23. OB3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    Great and true observation indeed!
    By the way I love Brazil
    Gry Sarth!
    I´ve been to Sao Paolo and
    Rio de Janeiro and my
    ex-girlfriend is
    from there!
    Gostoso!
  24. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Hmm, whoever mentioned the "crucible" called to mind something else as well. A crucible is used as part of the refinement process. As a result of this refinement process, Padme faces a life and/or death situation. Because it's a very close call, she learns to live her life with new zest and deliberation. She runs the gauntlet in that factory, and survives. Why she still ends up having to die in the next episode, is beyond me.
  25. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Give it a few years, and that whole scene will play like this:

    VADER: You fell into that nightmare Padme, and it was I who rescued you.

    PADME: I seem to remember you playing Mega Man with a Geonosian.

    VADER: Take her away!
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