Full Series Mini Series The Inquisitors (Spoilers)

"The Inquisitor is not a Sith. To be a Sith is more than just the look. He does tap into the Dark Side [like a Sith]. He's cold, he's analytical, he doesn't get angry [unlike a Sith]. His intensity is based on his purpose, the assignment." - Pablo

Anger and hatred are what the Sith are all about.

"I can feel your anger. It gives you focus. Makes you stronger." - Palpatine.

"Give into your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you!" - Palpatine

"Fear of loss is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." - Yoda

"I sense great fear in you Skywalker. You have hate, you have anger, but you don't use them" - Dooku

Now we have this Inquisitor who taps into the Dark Side, without getting angry. So we have a character who does use the Dark Side without channeling his hatred. And this guys whole purpose is to hunt down and kill Jedi. So it's not implied to be handicapping him or "screwing" him as someone else put it.

 

"He is a dark side user, but not all dark side users are Sith. Just in the same way, not all light side users are Jedi. Being able to pick up a lightsaber and use it isn't the mark of being a Jedi or being a Sith....

...So it seems like that the dark siders that are in charge of the galaxy, the Emperor and Vader are spreading some of that power out. But they're not giving sort of the full ability that they have to this lower class of underling."

 

IG Lancer

What's your point?

I never said the Inquisitor was a Sith. Someone made the claim that the Dark Side relied on anger and hate and that if you don't hate your opponent, then you are "screwed" because you can't use the Force properly. My point is that the Inquisitor was doing just fine without channeling his anger.

It's just logical to assume that if the Inquisitors are tasked with hunting down surviving Jedi, that they are adequately trained well enough to deal with the average Jedi. And so these Dark Side individuals that don't get angry could still tap into the Dark Side just fine and be strong enough to kill most Jedi. I know that the Sith aren't sharing all of their knowledge with the Inquisitors, but even so, the Inquisitors seem to have gotten the job done, since it was believed at the beginning of the series that all of the Jedi were just about dead. So it's implied that they have kills under their belts and were doing just fine as Jedi killers despite not getting angry.

 

My point is that the reason he isn't a Sith is that he is a "lower class of underling" who "hasn't received the full ability". I don't think the fact that he doesn't look angry all the time has nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, Dooku seemed as calm as the Great Inquisitor, and he was a Sith.

I dunno... maybe they rely on hate and sadism without being angry?

 

This is just speculation on my part but Filoni has left, what I regard to be hints about the Inquisitors. Or at least the Grand Inquisitor anyway.

1. We were told he was always there during TCW, we just didn't know it.
2. He has mentioned discussing the idea that some Jedi may have turned to the Dark Side and agreed to serve Palpatine in exchange for having their lives spared
3. The Grand Inquisitor chooses death over facing Vader, something that Filoni says is incredibly non-Sith like, since death is what a Sith fears most of all (Jedi on the other hand do not).
4. The Grand Inquisitor had intimate knowledge of Depa Billaba and alluded to having studied the Temple archives
5. We were told we would learn more about him and how he became an Inquisitor

I can't speak for 7th Sister and 5th Brother, but I feel like Filoni has been strongly implying that the Grand Inquisitor is an ex-Jedi that sold out and joined Palpatine. Thus, despite being Dark Side, he seems to have something of a Jedi way about him. He's fairly calm, he doesn't fear death, he is all about the mission and his purpose rather than serving himself. As far is his training goes, no, he wasn't trained as a Sith, and so he doesn't have all their secrets and doesn't know their path to power. But he still managed to clearly abandon the light side (the eyes don't lie) and join the Dark Side, despite not channeling his anger like a Sith. And despite not knowing how to channel his anger, it's strongly implied that he has had no problem fulfilling his duty as a Jedi hunter despite that. He may not be in Vader and Palpatine's league, but to be fair, he probably wouldn't be, even if he was trained as a Sith. But he still is superior to any Jedi he had been sent to kill prior to Kanan.

 

If anything, the Inquisitors being pathetically weak suggests that "use your hatred" is one of the teachings that Vader and Palpatine are holding from them. There may be other paths to the dark side, but at the end of the day, the Sith are the strongest and hatred is crucial to their power. Just like that might be other ways of using the light side of Force, if you still don't have the required state of mind, you probably won't be able to use in its full power.

You can’t seriously put the ESB fight on the same level of ROTJ.

Luke said: “You couldn’t bring yourself to kill me before, and I don’t believe you’ll destroy me now” – which clearly refers to their talk on the bridge, when the conflict likely started. This is empathized when Vader did not kill Admiral Piett at the end and the editing made it look like it was an unexpected action (or non-action). Vader was starting to change at the end of ESB.

Before the bridge scene, there was no indication whatsoever that Vader had "just as much conflict within him". Vader almost killed Luke in that fight. He used Force powers in that fight that he did not use in ROTJ. ESB Vader and ROTJ Vader were very different characters, and it showed.


An having a bit of good deeply buried inside =/= being conflicted at your current actions. You can also say that Kylo Ren always had “light” in him but that didn’t diminish his abilities in the first arc. It was only when he killed Han and became conflicted at this actions that he became weak.

 

Inquisitors do not appear Dark Side Force hindered, and they do get visibly angry when things don't go there way. They are cold blooded and malicious killers. Some even have the full on Dark Side eyes that is suggestive of someone extremely powerful in the Dark Side and only seen in the Sith or someone soon to be(Vos).

 

Yes, the explanation that they don't draw on their anger sounds like typical Filoni nonsense.

 

Err. No, that conflict started in Vader long before they got to the bridge. Vader finds out about Luke before ESB and knows he is his son and that Palpatine lied. This is why in ESB he is hunting Luke before Palpatine even reveals that Luke is Vader's son. Something Vader already knew (as now canonically shown in the comics). Vader had wanted to turn Luke, not kill him. That doesn't make Vader a good person.

Luke cites Vader's inability to kill him as being evidence of the good in him and then what does Vader do? He strikes at his unarmed son. Twice no less. Luke tries to call Vader's bluff and it just angers Vader. In ESB Vader is toying with Luke. In ROTJ, Luke is much more powerful. This is said by Palpatine. Again, there's no evidence that Vader was any weaker. That he doesn't use the same Force abilities doesn't mean anything. Palpatine doesn't use the same impressive abilities against Mace as he does Yoda, nor does Dooku use Force lightning at all in ROTS. That doesn't mean they were any weaker.

But in Dooku's case he appears weaker, not because his power actually declined, but because Anakin had grown more powerful. It's the same with Luke. He had grown more powerful since the last time he fought Vader. In a lot of ways those two fights mirror each other.

In regards to the Inquisitors. The notion that they don't get angry was stated by Pablo of the story group, not Filoni. And who is to say they are pathetically weak? It's established early on that the Jedi are all but extinct due to them. They were strong enough to fulfill their purpose.

Jedi can get angry, the key is they don't let it flow through them to give them greater power. Dooku comments that Anakin has anger but doesn't use it. That the Inquisitors get visibly irritated doesn't mean they channel it nor contradict Pablo's statement.

 

I'll agree with the "pathetically weak" argument once we'll see Ezra and Kanan beating them without any effort, which is bound to happen once they level up. For now, they were only beaten by the deus ex machina a.k.a. Ahsoka Tano.

 

Vader is not conflicted in the comics, he is determined. He has a clear goal and purpose and he is acting according to it. There is huge difference between wanting Luke to help him overthrown the Empire and rule the galaxy, and “It is too late for me, son. The Emperor will show you the true nature of the Force. He is your master now.” There was a character development between ESB and ROTJ, where he went from mega powerhouse, pissed off Sith who kills anything and anyone and that stands in his way, to the dejected puppy that he is after Luke rejects his offer. And I don’t think that Vader striking a well-prepared Luke with a lightsaber in ROTJ is the same as blowing up a window and letting his noobie son almost fall to his death in ESB, or not showing any care if Luke survives a crash landing in Vader Down if he’s not strong with the Force.

But anyway, discussion is rather pointless as we both are interpreting things differently. Regardless, the fact still remains that the idea of a conflicted dark sider = weaker has been carried over to TFA.

Eh, no. According to Filoni, Vader did most of the Jedi purge work by himself. Inquisitors were created as hunt dogs, after the Jedi became so far and few in between it became a pain in the ass to track them all down. It seems their purpose is to kidnap Force sensitive children, track down any surviving Jedi of the purge, study them, and if they're too strong for them, call Vader. But they were not the reason why the Jedi became extinct (they might have helped a bit if they fought padawans or low-rank Jedi).

 

There's a difference between Kylo's conflict and Vader's conflict. And at the end of the day, I'm sure Kylo Ren is going to be stronger for it. Snoke knew of the conflict in Kylo and put him up to it. It seems like he was not going to proceed with Kylo's training until he proved that he could succeed where Vader failed. There's no reason for him to gimp his apprentice. In the end, I think the idea is that he'll be stronger for it. Snoke was convinced that without sentiment, Vader and the Empire would have triumphed. He wants Kylo to do what Vader could not. In the long run, Snoke must see some value in that.

Vader's conflict was there from the beginning. There was always good in him. Padme knew it. In a behind the scenes clip, we see Lucas directing Hayden, telling him that Anakim is doing evil things, then in his head asking himself, "wait, what am I doing? This is for Padme." He constantly was justifying his actions but knew they were wrong. And yet he wasn't weak then. He walked into the Jedi Temple and killed the Jedi there. Killing a bunch of kids didn't weaken him. He has tears in his eyes after slaughtering the Separatists, but it didn't weaken him. He is confident in his power more than ever.

When Vader has the news broken to him that he killed Padme, he shows immense power and Palpatine takes delight in it. That conflict of killing what he loved did not weaken him... At all.

So no, I don't buy it that Vader was any weaker due to being conflicted, not if he grew stronger in the Dark Side as he did evil things despite his conflict in ROTS. He was a power house, if anything back then, since by the time of the Vader comic, he is a treated as a disappointment by Palpatine and Palpating refers to him as completely missing his mark.

Kylo is unique, but his temptation to the light side is also unique. Snoke's training and Luke's training may also have had a different affect on him.

Hell, the Clone troopers probably did most of the purging in Order 66 alone. Vader I'm sure killed his fair share of Jedi, but Filoni even states that if the Inquisitors were to come across Obi-Wan or Yoda, they'd call in Vader, but otherwise they were tasked with killing/abducting/recruiting Children of the Force and killing any Jedi that would train them. This they logically must be strong enough to handle most Jedi outside of the A-List Jedi like Obi-Wan and Yoda.

 

Kylo is the embodiment of the Force, according to novel. Both strong in the light and dark; it's why Snoke wanted him.

 

That is not conflict. That's not how characterization works.
[Internal] conflict refers to a moment; it’s transitory, not permanent. It is there until the character makes a decision and accepts it. ROTS Vader had a moment of conflict, and it did hamper his abilities - or more specifically, his rational thinking. He did end up without his limbs and barbecued in lava after all . How much it hampered him is subjective, because we do not know big the internal conflict was, nor at what moment started accepting his decisions and overcame his internal struggle.

However, having “good” or “light” inside is just a character trait. Conflict, on the other hand, is an episodic occurrence. It’s not a permanent characterization, it’s a disturbance in the character’s currently established characterization. It arises when the character is put in an atypical situation that requires him/her to make between two contradictory proactive choices, or when the character struggles between two opposing emotions. In Star Wars lexicon, one can say it’s when that “good” or “light” comes to the surface and actively interferes with the character’s established goals/desires. Grieving for a loved one is not conflict, it’s a natural reaction to a loss he couldn’t prevent. Vader was not struggling between two opposite emotions, he was just unleashing his anger.

Conflict is portrayed, it’s shown, and we know that the character is conflicted when said character does something atypical. Vader was conflicted in ROTJ, it was shown. Whether or not he had other conflicted moments before in the OT, that is entirely subjective because it was not shown.

Well, I can see that.

To each their own I guess. Internal conflict hampering one’s abilities is the only way I can reconcile ROTJ Vader with his portrayal in ESB and Vader Down if. Same with Kylo Ren in the third arc versus Kylo Ren in the first arc.

 

Well, I'm curious who the new inquisitor is. Maybe just one that they can kill off so the fifth brother and seventh sister don't have to die?

 

I'm kinda hoping the new inquisitor kills the other two.

 

I hope the seventh sister doesn't die any time soon, she is one of the more interesting villains on the show, and I'd like to see her get promoted to Grand Inquisitor.

 

The new inquisitor is probably another redshirt to show us again how powerful our heroes become.

 

My theory, too.

 

Yeah, probably won't live past the season finale

 

So since the Shroud of Darkness episode is making its rounds early via Disney XD's video service, let talk about new info it brings.


The Inquistors skill and victories/failures

Spoiler

The Inquistors as usual are not matching up to the Grand Inquistors skill, with Ezra starting to match the Fith Brother a bit in the opening scenes, while KanN dealt with Seventh Sister. but it seems Vader was fine with the victory of discovering the Jedi temple, even if the Jedi escaped.

But let's talk about the real juicy Inquistor stuff. Specifically

Spoiler

The Grand Inquistor spirit, now seemingly as a symbol of the light-side knighting Kanan as a true Jedi knight? I expected Grand Quizzy to return as the Jedi Temple Guard in the force vision, but I didn't expect that. But that begs some interesting questions. If the Grand Quizzy was dark when he died, why is his spirit after death light side? Perhaps in Kanan defeating him in S1, the Quizzy realized his mistake of falling to dark side and before letting himself fall to death, achieved some sort of redemption via the Force. Or, is this the Force using the past image of the pure light side Grand Quizzy to personally knight Kanan? All of these interesting questions in just one episode. I LOVE IT.

 

Spoiler

Maybe it's because I haven't seen Season 1 in awhile but is it me or was the Grand Inquisitor's design slightly altered? Obviously he's wearing the guard getup but I don't remember him having soulless grey eyes. Also the red mark tattoo is more faded looking

 

Spoiler

his appearance was probably corrupted by the dark side (notably the eyes), and the red tattoos may have been applied after he became an inquisitor.

 

Spoiler

I wonder if we will get a comic showing the Grand Inquisitor's turn to the dark side.

 

Here's how I'm interpreting it:

Spoiler

When people die, they are said to be "one with the force." Its as though individual living beings are encapsulated with part of an ethereal whole that is eventually freed and reincorporated into the whole upon death. Like a raindrop falling from the sky into the ocean. A force ghost is that encapsulation, freed from the body but still retaining independence and individuality from that whole. To me, the Grand Inquisitor was a force ghost on a leash. He doesn't have the same individuality as Obi-Wan, but is simply manifested on the force's bidding. This can only occur in other-dimensiony places like the temple. I have no evidence for this, its just how I like to interpret it. I bet recon will eventually explain it better. Probably with him being simply a vision like Vader on Dagobah.