ST The Island: A "Luke in TLJ" Teeth Gnashers Perspective (see warning on page 9 before posting)

Yes, I have. We (i.e. the whole New Films management team) have discussed it together.

So let's by absolutely clear. This thread (i.e. "The Island") is for venting, rants, etc. from posters unsatisfied with Luke's portrayal in TLJ. The other thread (i.e. the Luke/Mark Hamill thread) is for regular discussion.

In short, this thread is for the sort of posts that would otherwise stall discussion in the other thread.

 

So to be absolutely crystal clear, this discussion forum has taken the position that people that hold a negative opinion of Luke’s portrayal in TLJ are not allowed to engage in normal discussion regarding Luke’s portrayal anywhere on this discussion forum?

 

Yep and this was done so Luke doesn’t come off as too strong/take all the glory and so all of that can be brought on Rey who can’t do no wrong and who doesn’t need Luke to begin with.

I don’t mind what Luke went through, but he should have been given one more movie to live and further redeem himself. Him dying, despite how visually and poetic it was should have been saved for the end of 9. That’s what doesn’t sit well with me.

You want it to be just Rey vs Kylo in 9 fine. Just have Luke tell Ray he can’t be the done to take Kylo down and it has to be her. And the relationship that we really didn’t see but wanted between them happens.

 

No. This is not a leper colony. Anyone is free to post in the other thread, it just can't be in the form of rants and venting.

 

Except from what I’ve seen, posting a negative opinion results in people being told to leave. So, either people self censor, or no discussion?

 

I could have bought everything they did with Luke if the reason for his fall in the first place was more convincing. The entire ST was built on why did Luke withdraw...and it all came down to he provoked Ben Solo into destroying his school because he was tempted to kill Ben over bad thoughts. They just failed to make the sale to me. If Ben or Snoke had done something incredibly heinous to Luke so as to send Luke that far over the edge, then I could buy it. But they failed to make me believe it. And they could have, but they failed.

 

Perhaps some examples on what might rise above the standard of ranting and venting? From my point of view, the discussion here is not mainly ranting and venting (though there is some of that), its critiquing. So, some guidance on where the line is, in general, might be helpful.

 

Yes I would like to know as well since I feel there were times when people were discussing interpretations of what was on screen and nonetheless deemed to be “ranting”.

 

EDIT: wrote the below while Chrous Post directly above went out. Ignore what I wrote below obviously now.

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I hate to be the jerk and add to conflict but since others are now requesting to have both a place where they can vent and rant negatively about Luke in TLJ without any counters allowed at all it seems only fair that the other thread remains the opposite of that.

Otherwise, the topic of Luke becomes disproportionately and intentionally skewed and promoted toward the negative.

Perhaps that catch all debate thread is better for anyone looking for that kind of experience?

 

I find it pretty offensive that the "official" thread only allows praise of TLJ and no dissent. Maybe it should be closed as well and a new praise only thread opened.

I do remember all the heavy and often heated debates over the PT-I liked them myself even with their flaws, so this is nothing entirely new, but I think while they divided the fans to a degree, that TLJ has pretty much broken the fanbase and I don't see the series ever recovering. You don't destroy a character like Luke Skywalker and recover from that. A lot of fans are now lost or at least their fandom is severely diminished forever. I have no plans to see TLJ again, no plans to buy the blu-ray, I might not go see Solo, and I might not go see Episode IX.

 

Fair enough.

Back on topic, there were some points raised earlier about just when Luke reconnected to the Force. My guess is right after his confrontation with Rey, because Yoda only shows up after she left, and that's likely only because Luke "going back online" let him back in. I'm disappointed that they didn't feel it important to show the moment, because that for me would have been much more important than Yoda's callback to Luke's Dagobah training. It would have given Luke a moment to show personal growth back toward the man he was, as opposed to having suggesting through Yoda that he's learned very little in all these years.

 

This is now off-topic. Consider this a warning.

 

Wouldn't it be when he contacted Leia?

 

Again. Replying to help with confusion here. They DO show the moment very clearly. I wrote out a partial summary of it a page or two back. Luke goes into the temple by himself. Closes his eyes. It shakes. The water ripples. It cuts to Leia. She wakes up and says “Luke.” This is prior to Rey leaving. His first act is immediately connecting with Leia (and possibly even helping her to awake). He doesn’t show Force power prior and doesn’t sense Force power in Rey prior. He only realizes she’s more than a messenger when he observes her reacting to the ancient texts presence from afar and gravitating toward them. The ancient texts call out to her like how the saber did. Luke shows Force power after connecting with Leia.

 

Exactly. This could have been Rey's trial....to deal with Kylo. Just like Luke had to confront Vader and the Emperor. If Snoke is gone...Luke would just say it is her destiny, not his. That would have been very reasonable if LFL was worried about Luke "outshining" anyone.

 

this is literally what it's come down to

 

If anyone else wants to bemoan our decision to provide a thread for ranting about Luke's portrayal in TLJ, we can continue this discussion in the Unban Requests forum.

 

That's when he first uses it again, briefly, yes, but I'm looking for when he fully commits to opening himself up to it again. There was an opportunity to how he arrives at that decision and what drove him to do it and I think the context would have added to his character growth.

 

I would have even went with, I can't kill my sister's kid, despite getting the urge to while back. But he has to be taken down. That's it. If Carrie was still here, I may have had different thoughts, but now it al just feels empty.

 

Personally, I'm rooting for Kylo and the FO now. Not that I want Rey to die, but after 8 movies of sucking, I want to see a Skywalker win for once and Kylo is all we got. So I'm pulling for the "bad guys".

 

How do know that isn't him fully himself up to it again?

 

I largely agree.

J. J. Abrams, of all people, is probably the only one who can fix that now. His Episode IX could pretty much invalidate TLJ with very little effort:

1. Have Force-ghost Luke meet Rey and tell her that this is their first meeting. All the stuff that Rey experienced on the Island was merely a Force-delusion foisted upon her by Snoke. Therefore Luke was never a loser. Instead, he went to the Island to engage in meditative practices that would change the galaxy at such a fundamental level that "going to the dark side" (as Vader and Kylo Ren did) would become henceforward impossible.

2. Everything Kylo Ren said was a lie.

3. Have there be plenty of Resistance forces in Episode IX. They simply didn't have time to get to Crait and/or were busy fighting elsewhere.

Annnnnnnnd...that would basically nullify TLJ except for Luke's death.

 

Nah. Broom Boy gunna kill him. With his Luke action figure. TWIST BRO!

 

I could go either for that or for them just totally blowing it up.