ST The Island: A "Luke in TLJ" Teeth Gnashers Perspective (see warning on page 9 before posting)

That's a really good point. It blows my mind that that RJ didn't close his eyes and imagine hearing Luke speak these lines or act these scenes. It blows it even more that he might actually have done these two things and said 'Yep; that's Luke Skywalker, alright!'

 

Oh, you actually made an even better point than I meant with mine. Here's a simple exercise: If Luke is saying something truly important, like "I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father", the line should work well with his leitmotif playing in the background (actually, thats true of every character). Can you imagine The Force Theme playing in the background to "It didn't scare me enough then, it does now" "Its time for the Jedi to end" or anything else like that?

 

I completely agree with all of the above. Luke's reason for being on the island was the worst possible reason of all: that LUKE considers himself to be the problem when Snoke, kylo, and six other dark side students are on the loose. And the first order too, of course. Are you kidding me? Luke believes he's a bigger problem for the galaxy than all of those people put together? Really, Rian? Does that really make sense to you?

Plus, of course, we got the worst possible reason ever for Luke to go running off like a coward in the first place: that Luke would first do what we saw the villain do and violate his nephew's mind in his sleep. And that THEN, when he sees a possible terrible future involving Ben, that the first thing he would consider to do to address the problem would be too kill his nephew, even going so far as to remove his lightsaber from his belt and actually ACTIVATE it above his sleeping nephew. Yep! Really a GREAT idea, Mr. Johnson and company! That will make a lot of sense and go over well with fans!

I also agree that Luke's relationship with Rey was the worst one possible, as were the ways that Luke was portrayed in his exile. Just absolutely terrible! Again, worst ways possible. Yes, you haven't damaged Luke enough, filmmakers. Give him a milking scene and have untrained Rey beat the guy who is supposed to be a Jedi master in a skirmish so you can really humiliate him and bring him into the gutter.

Again, I agree that the five minute scene that was supposed to be Luke's redemption to make up for all of the above and more (It's supposed to make up for Luke not getting to restore the Jedi Order that was taken from him and given to Rey too, don't forget!) was a very lame letdown. It nowhere NEAR comes close to making up for assassinating Luke's character and personality and for stealing his Jedi legacy.

Then, getting to the last point you made about Luke supposedly being a legend for the galaxy now because of that four minute fake-out fight with Kylo, I find that ridiculous. In the first place, you're right. It's all just an illusion. The filmmakers didn't care that they actually destroyed the real character of Luke Skywalker. They are all so "pleased" that they came up with a way that Luke can be looked upon as a hero and a legend for the people of the galaxy while getting rid of the pesky character himself. Now they don't need to deal with Luke in episode IX. But, unfortunately, the "legend" is just an illusion. He didn't really accomplish anything. The man Luke skywalker actually gave up on everything: kylo and the other fallen students, the Jedi, his sister and Han, the resistance, the galaxy, and himself. The man Luke skywalker actually CAUSED a lot of the death in the galaxy because he set Kylo and the students on the dark path, and because he didn't try to turn them back or confront them and Snoke. It was because Luke took himself out of the "game" that countless people died and much of the galaxy was destroyed.

This really was an extremely dark and nihilistic story.

I also still wonder WHY Luke is thought of as a legend because of this stupid force projection. Who really saw it to spread the news about it? Rey and Chewie didn't see it. Those dozen people didn't watch the confrontation, because they were busy following the foxes and trying to escape. I can't imagine that Kylo or other members of the First Order were broadcasting reports of what transpired on Crait, so how did anyone even find out? Seems like this is at least a bit of a plot hole.

However, even if it isn't, wouldn't some REAL actions have been more inspiring? Like Luke and his death star accomplishment? Or Luke being the catalyst that brought Vader back to the Light and which led to the death of the Emperor and the eventual fall of the Empire? Or Holdo's sacrifice, which WAS observed by many? Or the sacrifice of Rose's sister? Or any of the true heroics that were accomplished by others rather than a four minute verbal exchange between Luke and Kylo and a few dodges, as you said. It just was really unsatisfying and didn't make sense.

It actually seems to me that REY would have been the greatest inspiration, because SHE was actually observed lifting those boulders, and she did at least as much to save that dozen survivors as Luke did, if not more. AND, she was obviously the new Jedi hero.

 

This is the real problem with anyone claiming that GL's "concepts" were used. A man in exile could be there because (i) he committed a crime, (ii) he's fleeing persecution, (iii) he believes his religious order needs to end, (iv) he's searching for a weapon to defeat evil. And so forth, and so on. The fact that "Luke was always in exile" does very little to explain the context of that exile. I doubt very much that what GL was considering is anything like what we got.

 

@SaintKenobi1322 , I agree with you. I can't imagine that Lucas was happy about the way that Luke was mistreated and mischaracterized in TLJ, and I doubt that he was pleased that Luke was killed off, especially in such a stupid way. So, using the Force gets you killed? Even though the Force is part of all living things? Really?

Well, actually, the Force theme is not Luke's theme.

Did you know that the Star Wars main title theme, the one that you hear at the beginning of every Star Wars film is Luke's theme? It's the one with all of the trumpet fanfare.

John Williams wrote in notes that were included with the records from the original Star wars, a new hope: " When I thought about a theme for Luke and his adventures, I composed a melody that reflected the brassy, bold, masculine, and noble qualities I saw in the character. When the theme is played softly, I tended towards a softer brass sound. But I used fanfarish horns for the more heraldic passages. This theme, in particular, brings out the full glow of the glorious brass section of the London Symphony orchestra. "

The Force theme was originally Ben Kenobi's theme.

When Lucas was doing the first prequel film, he didn't want to use the Main title theme at the beginning of the movie and wanted a new one, because Luke wasn't in the film. But Williams talked Lucas into it, because Williams said that the theme had become synonymous with Star Wars , so Lucas acquiesced.

I didn't hear Luke's theme played for him in TLJ. Probably John Williams didn't think of Luke as being noble anymore.

 

He could have also guarded something. A force "power source" so dangerous and unstable if it fell into the wrong hands - say Snoke - it would be ten times worse. Shielding something like that would have been a worthy task. And if they wanted to go for pathos, doing so could he slowly drained Luke of power, driven him insane and driven him dark or a combination of all of the above.

Anything is better than loserdom.

Interesting, I think the force theme has become synonymous with Luke`s theme, though. Whereas the theme playing over the title crawl is more thought of as the general "Star Wars" theme.

Can`t even remember right now if young Obi Wan had his own theme in the prequels. For me the quintessential Obi Wan scene in ANH is when he tells Luke some backstory back on Tatooine. One of the best exposition scenes in cinematic history. This little shifty but sad look when Luke asks how his father died? Amazing.

Nothing in TLJ came close to rivaling the chils this scene gave me. Not even the Luke/Leia scene which I consider the best moment in the entire movie. Or the one with Artoo which is second-best.

 

Especially considering there is so little appreciable difference between what Luke did that killed him and what Kylo and Rey did throughout the movie that is apparently no big whoop. And this new power is introduced and explained in such a ham-fisted way by Kylo Ren? 'Oh, no; you can't do THAT -- it would kill you! This? This you can TOTALLY do.' Lame, lame, lame.

 

Yes, that was so poorly done. It`s obviously very close to the same thing. They even lampshade it with transferring the rain to Kylo`s hand vs. later Luke and the dice. So the Force-Skype serves as a set-up of the force projection later but it also diminishes it beforehand. Because we have seen it all along in some form.

If you want to set-up the force projection as some really big, dangerous power-display, have some exposition on howparticularly that has only been attempted by some Jedi but never really achieved with any level of success and that it is lethal regardless. Then you set up a something at least approaching epic for Luke instead of whatever this was. I`ve said it before, I don`t think RJ has any instincts for blockbusters. Thing is, however, when I watch Star Wars, I expect one to some degree. Not something in the style of a weird indie arthouse flick. Those aren`t automatically good or entertaining. And blockbusters aren`t automatically low-brow and shallow.

 

It boggles my mind that the audience buys into Legendary Luke being an inspiration so readily. I mean, the movie is written that way, sure, but I'm stunned that it's just accepted as it's told, without question. I mean, out of these, which one of the following scenarios, seems inspirational to help the Rebels.

A: The Legend of Finn
Hey did you hear?
No, what?
Apparently, some stormtrooper broke his programming, helped to blow up Starkiller base, got into a fight with Kylo Ren, and is now fighting for the Resistance!
No way, that's a lie. No stormtrooper has ever crossed sides.
It happened. Everyone is talking about it. They call him Finn!
You know...I bet that's where all those missing kids went 15 years ago. You remember that, right? 20,000 kids went missing from the border regions. No one ever found them. I bet the First Order took them.
Yeah, I wonder if other's will rise up against the First Order. I think the tide is turning...more and more people are joining the rebels.
If the troopers rise up, the First Order is done for!

B: The Legend of the Rebels.
I hear there was a battle on Naboo. The Rebels won. General Leia won back the planet!
Yeah, it's frightening. How could the First Order overtake the galaxy so quickly though.
I'm not sure...all communication networks are breaking down. I can't even get supplies across the system.
Thank the force though, they blew up Starkiller base though. I heard Poe Dameron is the best pilot they have!
I'm not such a bad pilot myself. They probably need more of them. I remember the Rebels...they saved the galaxy from the Empire!

C: The Legend of Luke Skywalker.
My cousin says it's true. All of it.
Nah...I never believed in that stuff. The Jedi...the force it's just parlor tricks.
Noooo. Luke Skywalker came back. He fought Kylo Ren with an actual lightsaber. On Crait!
Wait...Skywalker...The pilot who blew up the Death Star. I was a kid back then. He was a Jedi?!?
Yeah... he had his own school for a time too. But then his nephew destroyed it all and started calling himself Kylo Ren.
He's Kylo Ren's uncle! What was he doing all this time?
I'm not sure. A lot of people thought he was dead.
So he fought Kylo Ren?
Yep. And then disappeared again.
Where did he go?
No clue...no one has seen hims since.
So he literally just showed up, for a few minutes and then vanished again. Did he kill Kylo?
No...Kylo is still out there.
But this was on Crait, right? This was after the New Republic was destroyed and the Resistance taken down! I heard theres only a few that even survived the massacre.
He'll come back again, don't worry!
But what did he actually do? What was the point?
I think so that he rest of the Rebels could escape the planet.
Yeah...but after everything went bad. Where was he for the last few years? Why not help out then, before it got bad. It sounds like Kylo Ren is his fault. Are there any other Jedi?
Just one. His other student. I hear she's training others now though. Won't be long till the Return of the Jedi. I can feel it.

 

Yeah, this is all really flimsy.

I mean, I love the OT to death but I`m not even sure the trio would have ascended to mythical characters on account of just that. Be household names within the rebellion? Sure. But the galaxy at large for a longer time? It`s more iffy.

The only place where it was suitably set up was the old Legends EU. In which the characters were around and had so many high profile battles/conflicts/adventures/accomplishments that of course people knew about them. Leia was Chief of State for a while, Luke`s name was synonymous with his new "Jedi Order". Han was THE smuggler who rose to royalty, so to speak.

Heck, even the Clone Wars established Anakin and Obi Wan as a famous Jedi duo.

Thing is, the OT kept things focused on the Rebels vs. Empire pretty much throughout. Then the PT got in on world-buildingof the GFFA overall. The ST pretends to play on a galactic conflict the likes of the PT but has even less world-building than the OT.

 

I sincerely think all this looked better and made more sense in RJ's head. When you think about it, he basically built this whole film around that Force Projection scene, either from there back or from there forward, and it was just so incredibly weak and lame. We waited 34 years and 140 minutes for THAT? How could he not realize how little difference there was between what Ren and Rey were doing and what happens at his big climactic moment?

And I agree with you about the art house thing. They let RJ get way too cute and do things that didn't do anything to advance the plot or really make any sense. We've been in this galaxy for 40 years, 8 films and two TV series at the time TLJ was released; we have established 'rules' about what you can and cannot do, how things move, how technology works. Canon is critical to a franchise like SW; this isn't a comic book movie, and I feel like RJ tried to write SW as a 'serious' comic book movie.

 

Look at the Anakin Solo and Vua Rapuung confrontation against Mezhan Kwaad or Ganner's Last Stand in the NJO series.
Most of the Yuuzhan Vong compound saw the Anakin/Vua/Kwaad confrontation. They saw a Shamed One and Jedi working side by side. They saw a Priestess willing confess to shaming a warrior into a Shamed One and that there were no Gods. Via Rapuung even with his honor restored, fought the incoming warriors to give Anakin and Tahiri time to escape. Tsavong Lah would try to suppress the news of this encounter but that helped fan the flames.
That the Jedi could be the salvation for the Shamed Ones.

Ganner Rhysode held off hundreds of Yuuzhan Vong so that Jacen could talk with the World Brain to set up a plan to impede the Yuuzhan Vong's terraforming of Coruscant and help when the NR/GA came back to liberate the planet. Many Yuuzhan Vong saw this battle and Ganner became part of the the Jedaii hersey of the Shamed One's. Vergere had a vision of a Yuuzhan Vong God called The Ganner who guarded the realm of the dead so that they couldn't interfere with the living. Ganner was memorialized when Jacen and the rest became Jedi Knights.
All much more satisfying than the Luke scene imo.

Then again. There is still plenty of time for E9 for the Luke thing to grow. The stormtroopers, the rest of the galaxy etc.

 

Interesting detail, how Williams' intended things. That said, the popular consensus has basically appropriated The Force Theme/Binary Sunset as Luke's Theme. Hell, I just double checked my work, and googling 'Luke's Theme' results in almost nothing but Binary Sunset. I did find a New Yorker article discussing Leitmotifs in Star Wars in general that confirmed your clarification, though even that admitted that Binary Sunset is tied up in Luke.

 

All the mythical talking about Luke makes no sense, I hate this space Jesus nonsens. It was simply just a fake image and Luke did nothing heroic with the Crait force projection.

 

Yes, that's the way I've always understood it as well, that Luke's theme was the main SW theme, since he was the hero of the OT. Like many things, the perception of that changed with the PT. I hadn't thought about TLJ not using music related to Luke until the very end. Probably because they gave Jake new music.

 

Agreed. Those were played as big, epic things.

In the OT, Luke`s first big achievement is blowing up the Death Star. Yes, he had help but he landed the final shot and not a second too soon. With that, he saved the entire Rebel`s base on Yavin 4. That looked much more impressive than widdling the Rebellion down to 12 people and going "oh, this is the spark now". Are you kidding me?

In Rogue One they all die but manage to transfer the plans of the Death Star with the weakness in them. And we know that weakness will lead to victory for the Rebels in ANH. So that victory feels big in scale, too.

Basically nuking the Rebellion onscreen and then playing cute with how it is just about symbolism and inspiration doesn`t work for me.

You know what that reminded me of? If anyone has seen the Family Guy Star Wars parodies (I would recommend them, I think they are really funny and in parodies a certain humour has its place, unlike actual "your mother" jokes in the actual movie), there is the parody of Empire with Luke`s gunner in the battle of Hoth, Dak, who says he feels like he could take on the Empire by himself.

The joke is that everyone goes "that`s great, Dak" and stays back while only Dak flies out there to fight, all gung ho and inspirational against twenty Star Destroyers. Then one laser beam from one of them unceremoniously blows him up.

For a parody, that`s great, playing that for real and trying to sell it to me? Not so much.

 

One thing the film was very clear about was the Jedi aren't the be all and end all. Training Rey isn't the be all and end all.

Assuming the Resistance come good in Episode 9, Luke sacrificed himself to help save the galaxy. Without him - the Resistance dies and all hope is gone so if Episode 4 is about Luke being a new hope, Episode 8 is about him saving what hope that is left. Ultimately in Episode 4, Luke is a bright energetic 20 year old who saves the galaxy by jumping in a spaceship and blowing up the death star like 20 year olds do. In Episode 8, Luke is much older, tired and weary so instead of jumping in a spaceship saves the galaxy the way 60 year olds do and uses his vet skills.

I don't see why Lucas wouldn't be happy with that. It makes for a heck of a lot stronger and believable character than the blue eyed superhero people want whilst still allowing him to go down a hero (again) and legend.

Nobody is perfect but you can have imperfections and still do something amazing.

 

Every hero can't be an anti-hero. This saga had an anti-hero, and his name was Han Solo. If you make everyone an anti-hero, that character loses its appeal and its edge. Superman is Superman,. You can't make Superman act like Batman so he can be 'cool'.

 

Increasingly that scene will suffer over the years. To be honest I thought Luke surviving all that fire power was a bit over the top. I loved it at the time but you can't have Jedi that powerful, and when it was shown to be a trick I thought, well that won't be 100th as effective on second viewing. Did I say 100th, if anyone thinks that's an over estimation, just say. I'm still not convinced that Kylo wouldn't have realised that Luke was force projecting himself when he saw him survive that bombardment - he did know force projection was possible. But, if he thought Luke was actually there, would he even want to face him after seeing the power Luke apparently displayed.

Maybe a small matter to some, but I don't like it.

 

Well, so many films have been made since the OT, so yes, that main theme has become synonymous with STAR WARS, just as John Williams said to Lucas. I sort of wish that they would have gone with a different theme for each trilogy though, so Luke's musical theme could have remained HIS.

However, the next time you watch ANH, listen to the music that is played almost every time Luke shows up. You will see that it is usually some variation of the Star Wars main theme. I was able to actually purchase a second hand copy of the old vinyl records from when the film was even called just STAR WARS, and the explanation sheet about the various themes was still in there. It makes sense that the main theme would be Luke's, as he was the main character of the OT, and the very first book, was actually title: Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker.

So, unfortunately, Luke has gone from this important main character and hero of the OT films, to the failed jerk that we get in TLJ.

 

The lack of Luke’s theme struck me as odd. Note that his “entering battle” music is in fact a deconstructed “Imperial March”! That, combined with Luke’s use of the legacy saber in the stand-off with Kylo, makes me wonder if RJ wanted less of a focus on Luke as an individual any more on his place in the Skywalker legacy..,?

 

Well, it certainly would have been great if Luke had been allowed to keep the Jedi Legacy that should have been his. Instead, this honor now goes to newbie Rey Random, who never earned it, because she never struggled; never faced a real test; was never even TRAINED!!!

 

@JoJoPenelli ,The lack of Luke’s theme struck me as odd. Note that his “entering battle” music is in fact a deconstructed “Imperial March”! That, combined with Luke’s use of the legacy saber in the stand-off with Kylo, makes me wonder if RJ wanted less of a focus on Luke as an individual any more on his place in the Skywalker legacy..,?

Or maybe he just wanted Luke to be identified again with the villains. He made Luke a near villain by having him be responsible for starting Kylo on his path of darkness and then did nothing to stop the mess he made. He also included Luke on both the hero poster and the villain poster.

 

TLJ subverted Rey’s and our expectations about Luke and Kylo...then subverted them again.

Did anyone watch that stand-off between Kylo and Luke and honestly believe that the narrative was saying Luke is in the wrong??

Luke’s final act sparked hope in the galaxy. One might feel it was badly-done and unconvincing, but it’s canon. And generally not something villains do.

 

Dr

You're so right and really fits these stories. Visuals first, script to then bend or break to the visual story.