ST The Island: A "Luke in TLJ" Teeth Gnashers Perspective (see warning on page 9 before posting)

They chose to give Luke an iconic green lightsaber only to make the most un-Luke thing ever.
Nuff said.

 

@DarkGingerJedi that would have been better than what we got.

I said on another thread that I feel like we are seeing 8, 9, and 10. All this stuff that is alluded to imo should have been Ep. 7 (and seems would have been while GL was consulting) and was essential for me to have a small chance to buy the “broken” Luke we are presented. Though I concede it still likely would not have happened.

 

And then make Kylo look like an imbecile for not noticing that "Luke" is "fighting him" with the very same blue lightsaber that he and Rey just broke like ten minutes before. Also Luke looking exactly like he did the night that he tried to kill Kylo. Also Kylo couldn't sense that it was a projection, but Rey and Leia and even C3PO seemed to catch on rather quickly.

 

Always felt that as well. Would have been nice to have a trilogy showing Luke building the temple, training Jedi, seeing Kylo go from good to dark and how it all went down, one last big three reunion, but too much time passed.

Actually they could have had all of that for episode 7 with 8 being TFA, and 9 being TLJ. Then you could have made a trilogy just based on the new characters vs Kylo or whatever.

Maybe my thoughts will change after 9 and I’ll agree with where they started the story with this trilogy, while I feel like the Luke reveal at the end of 7 is one of the greatest and most anticipated in cinema history, I do feel like he should have had two movies in this saga before he died.

It felt like Han Solo all over again with Luke. Someone Rey didn’t, was depressed/ran away, and was a one and done in movie appearances. That’s why I’m praying Luke will come back and be awesome in 9. I feel like we deserve to see it. But then again, we really don’t deserve anything at the end of the day and should be lucky we got to see these actors on the big screen again.

All I’m saying is that if Mark is still alive and still a young 65, let the character shine. I keep hearing people say “No one wants to see a 70 year old actor do all of that kind of stuff as the main role.” And all I say to that is what Luke said to Kylo about everything with that statement is wrong. People wanted to see Luke in his full glory again. I’ve been talking to people outside of this forum, and internet in general and you wouldn’t believe how many people are annoyed that they made his character depressed and die in one movie.

As far as green lightsaber, if we aren’t gonna see Mark hold a lightsaber anymore, let him go out with green at least. I get it though, they wanted to show character growth from the guy who didn’t care about throwing his blue lightsaber in the beginning, to appreciate and hold it with pride at the end, but meh.

 

Actually, @Jamtia , I wish now that they wouldn’t have used Luke, Han, and leia at all. It would have been better, in my opinion, to NOT see them onscreen again than to have their characters killed off...and in Luke ‘s case, completely assassinated and forever ruined. They should have gone forward a hundred years when they would already be gone and their legacies secured and their characters intact.

That was a GREAT critique! I didn’t have time to watch the Whole thing. I don’t usually watch any videos that are longer than a few minutes, but I made an exception in this case. I skipped around, but I watched almost a half hour of it. Too bad the filmmakers can’t see some of these.

As for Mark Hamill, of course I don’t know for certain, but I suspect that he really still hates what was done to the character, but I do think he likes Rian Johnson. Once Johnson started to get pelted with angry tweets, he probably wanted to support him. Of course, he may have gotten an indirect message from Disney or kk through someone like his agent, to cease and desist too. I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure, but he really didn’t seem to agree with the choices that were made for Luke.

@DominusNovus , you’re right: family has always been too important to Luke for him to even consider killing his nephew. The real Luke would have done anything and everything he could to try to save his nephew from a life of evil, even if it meant his own death in the attempts. This was already proven with Darth Vader. Luke was willing to die in the attempt to save him and turn him back to the light. It really makes me angry that not only did they make Luke into a near villain in this horrible film, but they completely changed his character and established traits to do it, and for Luke, the importance and love of family and the willingness to do anything for them was a major part of his character. These filmmakers completely disregarded that, both with having Luke even briefly consider killing his nephew and actually igniting that blade, but also again with his sister. Even after Rey told him that leia wanted and desperately needed him to return to the resistance, Luke refused to go with Rey. That is NOT Luke! He would have done anything for his twin.

And, as @Thrawn082 said, rian Johnson didn’t even allow us to see Luke ‘s reaction to han’s death! That was awful! Han was Luke’s best friend and brother-in-law.

There was really very little emotion and no HEART in this film. Leia lost both her husband and her brother in less than a week, and there was really very minimal reaction. With Luke, it was more like she lost an earring than a twin. It was a cold, soulless, action-first movie, and the action scenes didn’t even connect well or even always make sense.

I still find it hard to understand how some Star Wars fans are not only okay with this film, but genuinely seem to love it.

 

Basically, TLJ asks us to assume that nothing that Luke could imagine Vader and Palpatine doing if they survived ROTJ was worse than the future he saw for Ben.

 

Yes, AND that Luke forgot that the future was always in motion too.

Going on a tangent here, it’s also another major annoyance of mine that for Rian Johnson it wasn’t bad enough for Luke to be responsible for ben’s fall, but he also has SIX more of Luke’s students fall too. How? Why??? Was Luke such an incompetent teacher??? Was he so completely oblivious to what was happening with these students right under his nose??? Did he not sense their imminent betrayal? Was he that terrible of a Jedi???

Johnson just completely shredded Luke and assassinated his character in that film. And no one else saw this or cared about this?? Kk??? Iger??? The story group??? JJ, who I think was the producer??? No one????

 

Rian: so I want to surprise the audience and Kylo at same time so I'll make Luke be a projection.
Someone of Lucasfilm: and why you want Luke to look younger and using the blue lightsaber? Kylo will not notice it? but why h-
Rian: shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

I think it comes down to whatever makes the new characters look good. Still don’t know how Rian got a full leash but everyone else has been replaced. The Knights of Ren thing bugs me to. Like he doesn’t have one successful student? Could have been Rey but he didn’t play any part in that. If Snoke twisted their mind through some power that was out of Luke’s control then I could buy it, but Luke could do nothing right. I get it’s based off the Jedi in the PT having this one sided idea, but Luke should have been successfully able to have some kind of training program. Not Rey.

 

Agreed. How often do we also hear the comment that its "not his story" in relation to Luke as some kind of justification? Should there not just be a story instead of a sense of who's turn it is to shine. Its nearly as if some people are trying to justify whats happening by emphasising some weird sense of entitlement where characters get turns instead of being actual meaningful characters.

 

All of this plus the vertical space bombs and rubbish bombers.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

Exactly!!!!! Was TESB Yoda’s story??? No, but he played a really great and important role in it! And, guess what?? He didn’t take any focus or shine off of Luke, because Luke was a strong enough character in his own right. No one needed to worry about yoda eclipsing Luke , or Ben Kenobi doing that in ANH.

If Rey can’t be successful unless every other character is minimized or damaged to do it, then she isn’t a very well fleshed out character. You shouldn’t need to mischaracterize luke or bring him so low just so Rey can look better. It’s generally not a great idea to raise the status of a new character at the expense of already established, beloved character.

 

Adding to the silly-sad mess of this backstory is that the other obvious option makes Kylo look like a great villain: He straight up killed all of Luke's students, on his own (I think the TFA flashback shows him having some help, so mostly on his own).

 

Kylo couldn't have done it alone, The Knights of Ren definitely helped him. Basically, one half of Luke's students murdered the other half. It's quite horrific, isn't it? How were the traitorous students more powerful than Luke's most loyal pupils?? That's the part that's really mind blowing to me. The students who believed in Luke the most were slaughtered while the ones who shirked his teachings managed to prevail. I guess Luke was just the worst teacher in the universe somehow...

 

I agree. My point is that the backstory could have been written differently. If its Kylo alone wiping everyone out, rather than him and half the students turning to the Dark Side, then Kylo looks like a much bigger threat.

But instead, we get a villain with almost no agency of their own.

 

In this thread the other day we were talking about the pity it is we didn't get to see Luke and Rey as a force in their own right as master and appreciate.

In that same spirit though how good would it have been to see a powerful Sith and apprentice (Kylo) raise up and overthrow the new republic instead of a feeble manipulator that Snoke was?

 

I don't think it was a bad idea to examine the dark side in this manner. We've seen the fall with anakin. Kylo is picking up anakins character, right after sith, in a manner of speaking.

I think snoke is kylo. He is Kylos apparition of the dark side.

 

I like that description. Its an interesting way to look at it really.

 

Luke in the cave.

Palpatines speech to anakin in the opera house.

I posted it not too long ago. Snoke is the concept of darth plageous mixed with Luke's encounter with Vader in the cave. Unlike Luke, Kylo was not able to escape that darkness.

I think it's why there is no back story for snoke, because he is directly tied to Kylo ren.

 

Remember, RJ explained that kylo only saw a flash of light. He never saw the saber destroyed. Still...you'd think that kylo would wonder why his former master isn't using his own lightsaber. Or even better, how a force prodigy doesn't realize his fighting a hologram, but whatever.

His feeling about what was done to luke was so spot on. How a certain someone had one job, and that was to get the band back together. This mistake can never be corrected and thats what so heartbreaking about it all. Carrie is gone, han is dead, luke is dead. Even if they pulled effery to make it so luke never actually died, we will never see the trio have a reunion. Its so mind boggling that they never thougth to do this. Luke's character was ruined, and then he was killed off, thus nobody can come after and repair the damage. That actually angers me.

 

DP

 

Id blame JJ and Harrison to for not realizing a big 3 reunion. Should have been a priority. I didn’t watch much of the video yet, but saw the part where he goes that we see some redemption of Luke, but oh no wait he dies. I think we would all feel better if Luke lived for 9, gives us one chance to have them get Luke right, and could take TLJ for what it is. But as of right now, TLJ is Luke’s finale and it’s so annoying that he left so soon.

 

The one job was absolutely not “to get the band back together”. You’re confusing “job” with “expectation”. In actual fact, it’s far more likely that the writers of the ST put story first, and wrestled with the question of whether to shoehorn in a reunion somehow, but ultimately realised it couldn’t be done in the story they wanted to do.
You don’t need to like the film, but it’s only fair to engage with what the film is doing and not dismiss as “oversight” things that were considered.

 

Except there was not "set story" from the beginning. They're winging it as they go along. And it REALLY shows,

 

Why are you quoting “set story”? I didn’t say it was “set” (though I suspect that there are overall broad strokes that have been set for a long time)