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Discussion TLJ The Island: A "Luke in TLJ" Teeth Gnashers Perspective (see warning on page 9 before posting)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by -LordSkywalker-, Jan 12, 2018.

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  1. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    You know, I was just about to edit my last post to add: “They just saw the dollar signs. It seems that was all that was important to them.”

    So, yes, I completely agree.
     
  2. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    The more I think about the open canvas they had, the more disappointed I am with Luke's handling. Even though I'm a huge fan of I-VI and thus would've had much more faith in a ST directly helmed by Lucas, I disagree with the creative direction I believe Lucas was still working from that Luke had to be just a mentor. I've seen a lot of snark around here along the lines of "what'd you expect, to follow the adventures of a senior citizen?", which is absolutely baffling given that oftentimes it's coming from sources quick to praise the new films as vehicles for inclusivity. "Take a seat, gramps," isn't very progressive. And besides, Mark looks great these days, and during the various publicity appearances he (imo) came across has having an appreciation for the series that transcends party line praise of practical effects. Just seems so wasteful to me.

    Oh yeah, I forget, he could still appear as a ghost and blast people with magic spells. Episode IX best since Empire.
     
  3. HandofSkywalker86

    HandofSkywalker86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2004
    If this was still the Skywalker Saga, having the Legacy characters serve as mentors meant to pass on the torch to the next generation of heroes is a given. Treat every character involved with respect, and forge genuine bonds and relationships between the new and old. That way there's a natural shifting of focus as the Saga comes to its conclusion.

    However, the new episodes don't seem like much of a Skywalker Saga to me. Anakin's only descendant is a school shooter neo-nazi. There's no real passing of the torch from old characters to the new. So, yeah, why not have Luke take on a more proactive, hopeful, and dynamic role? It's not like the new characters--aside from Kylo Ren--are given a lot of development, and Mark was excellent throughout the film.
     
  4. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Agreed. What can we takeaway from their time in ST except contradicting or regressive portrayals?

    They are there simply to bring in a larger box office because they didn't have the confidence in their own characters. If you asked me after Ep7 TFA if the characters could stand on their own merit, I would have said yes (even with issues). After TLJ, I can't find a serious reason to like any character.
     
  5. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    I think Harrison Ford as Han in The Force Awakens is great. Yes he goes back to being a smuggler, but there is an added wisdom to the character. Moof Milfer.
     
    godisawesome and rebelknight1 like this.
  6. appleseed

    appleseed Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Holy crap, never thought if it like that, but you're right. Also a cult leader of sorts. Even his attempts to woo Rey are pretty Manson like.

    And no hero to balance it. Sucks.
     
  7. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Anakin Skywalker.

    Father of Luke: A hermit loser
    Father of Leia: A failed government official
    Grandfather of Ben Solo: Fleeting moments of villain greatness surrounded by mountains of infantile tantrums

    And we wonder why we haven't seen FG Anakin. "Tell your sister I want a DNA test. I was barely with Padme. I hardly .... knew ... any ... of .... youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuahhhhhhhhhhhh."
     
  8. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 17, 2013
    They really need to address why Anakin apparently hasn’t appeared to Ben Solo to tell him he’s on the wrong path and to not be like him. It isn’t a plot hole, but it is a logical question. Did he try and Ben didn’t listen to him? Seems unlikely considering he’s a Vader fan boy.

    And the most important question of all, one that RJ had served to him on a silver platter and chose to ignore, when and how did Ben find out Vader was his grandfather? He doesn’t know in Bloodlines. Did Snoke find out when the galaxy did and tell him before his family could do it? Was that a reason why Ben came to trust Snoke more than his family?

    Seems like that would have made a lot of sense RJ - more than Luke contemplating murder - but you do you, since you clearly know so much.

    If the Story Group was just insistent on having Ben’s turn be partially the fault of not just Luke, but also Han and Leia - as is clearly hinted at in TFA - keeping the truth about Vader from Ben and believing the best about him rather than the worst makes way more sense and fits Luke way better than what we got. I’d rather have heard that Luke kept the information from him until Ben was ready and not seen the darkness - being the optimist that he is - and then Snoke steps in a ruins it.

    But hey; what do I know?
     
  9. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Yes, the whole “ well he could have a great role as a force ghost” thing as a defense against the claim that Luke didn’t need to die and shouldn’t have died in TLJ, doesn’t work for me. If they really wanted to use Luke in the next film, Rian Johnson wouldn’t have been allowed to kill Luke off in TLJ. It definitely didn’t need to happen, and it annoys me to no end that they killed him without allowing Luke to even train Rey, let alone restore the Jedi order. That means Luke gets no legacy at all, and no way to redeem himself for his mistake with his nephew or for running away like a coward for six years.

    I also agree that Luke should have been allowed to have a role besides that of Jedi mentor. (And they didn’t even give him THAT role!!) Mark Hamill did a great job even with the junky role he was given, so he could have done some heroics too. He also worked hard to lose a lot of weight, and he himself looks a lot younger than they made luke look in the new films. Luke was only really supposed to be 53 anyway, which isn’t all that old, especially in that GFFA. Look at Dooku at 90, still engaged in lightsaber battles.

    Luke could have played an active role too. Unfortunately, they were too afraid to take any focus away from Rey.

    They seemed to want to do away with all the older characters in this film: Luke, snoke, Holdo, ackbar. And we know that leia likely won’t return either. What’s the message here? Star Wars is no longer going to have older characters? Older fans are no longer needed or wanted in Star Wars?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  10. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 17, 2013
    The name Star Wars means certain things to people of a certain age. To young people, it is just another franchise, like Avengers, X-Men, JLA, Transformers, etc. The name does not assure success among people too young to have grown up without SW.

    I really question the decision-making that’s going on right now. All of these new films being announced outside the Skywalker saga makes the decision to eliminate all the older characters even more strange.

    They’ve announced all these new films with RJ and the Game Of Thrones Guys, and the anthology films, but there’s no room for the OT?
     
  11. powerfulforce

    powerfulforce Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2005
    I still don't know what they're playing at. The OT is what got many fans into the franchise to begin with. The original films came out before I was born, but I loved those films growing up. That series transcended generations and has been beloved by many for decades. Why Disney thinks it is a good idea to erase the legacy of those characters in those films to prop up the new ones just isn't a wise decision. The new audiences they're trying to capture aren't guaranteed to stick to the franchise the way that the old audiences did. They had brand loyalty and it's a huge mistake to destroy the characters that made the brand and to what end? There were many ways to send them off into the sunset without making them all be failures at the end.
     
  12. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 17, 2013
    You have to wonder how successful the PT would have been without the OT. While the visuals were nice, they weren't as ground-breaking and mind-blowing at the time as what the OT was for the time. The story wasn't as strong. The films weren't as fun or funny or whimsical. In 1999, without the SW name attached, and without the names Kenobi and Skywalker, TPM would probably have been ripped to shreds even worse than it was and been a another big budget, box office bomb.

    It's the OT that this entire foundation was built on, more specifically, A New Hope. If GL had decided not to make any more SW films and quit there, or been hit by a bus in 1978, ANH would still be regarded as an incredible achievement and would be beloved in its own right. The rest of the OT only grew that legacy, though it did take time for both films to settled in and grow on people. (This is particularly true of ROTJ; that film is WAY more popular in 2018 than it was in 1998).
     
  13. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2014
    yes, it is a shame and there would have been plenty of chances to let the OT3 go out with respect. But they decided otherwise and ruined a franchise and especially a character with Luke who means so much to so many people and helped us to go through hard times. I still cannot understand that they are so heartless. :(
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  14. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Four Time PT Trivia Champ/GOAT/New Films Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    We're locking this up now. Sand is getting everywhere and we mods hate sand. Stay tuned.
     
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