The it's a loooong story thread version 2.0 - announcement 7/30 - pg6 - blue

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by spiritgurl, Jun 19, 2005.

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  1. spiritgurl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2003
    star 4
    Yup. I just doublechecked your word count on that one for you and it qualifies. Just send me a PM with the info outlined in the first post of this thread and I'll add you to the index. :)
  2. Arin_Atona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 4
    Lots of good worldbuilding ideas. And yes, sg, it's rather amazing how much plot can revolve around details of planets. Just look at how much revolves around Tatooine, Coruscant, and Naboo in the movies.

    *heads over to read this month's epic*
  3. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    That's an awesome fic. I encourage everyone to read it.

    I'll be back... as soon as I reread this thread and get the lay of the land. Didn't even know we were doing this...
  4. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Uh oh, you just haaaad to make me journey into Beyond, didn't you? [face_worried] I really don't know much of anything about the Beyond EU so my knowledge of characters and such is going to be shaky. I'll do my best to give it a shot, though. Of course, I'm about to leave again for a few days so I don't know if I'll be able to read it until I get back mid-July...

    What exactly is entailed with the epic of the month deal? Do we all read it and discuss it or talk with the author about specific target areas or what :confused:

    Come on, since it's been brought up, on the subject of world-building, can't we *please* talk about linguistics? :p


    -sj loves kevin spacey
  5. spiritgurl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2003
    star 4
    I'm very shakey on Beyond EU too but I wanted to be fair and pick from all the Eras, even if I didn't know a lot about the subjects. ;)


    What exactly is entailed with the epic of the month deal? Do we all read it and discuss it or talk with the author about specific target areas or what


    It's all very laid back, just try to read some over the course of the month, leave some feedback if you can either here or in the thread. Sebulba did say constructive criticism is okay but usually it's best to leave that to PM probably.

    Sebulba: You can bring up any specific issues you'd like the readers to give you feedback on here over the course of the month. If anything.

    Come on, since it's been brought up, on the subject of world-building, can't we *please* talk about linguistics?


    Oh I guess that's on topic enough. ;) Um... on that topic, here's what I'm having trouble with. I wanted to build a world for the next episode, and I was thinking that the humans there, being sort of isolated from the rest of the galaxy, would have some differences in the way they speak. I was sort of smitten with the idea that it be sort of a cockney, Scottish, Irish, mix somehow with the sayings and way of speaking but still sounding original. I'm not exactly an expert on how to describe the different accents though, and I would love some ideas for different saying from those that I could perhaps retool a bit to sound more made up. If that makes any sense... 8-}

    sg
  6. EmilieDarklighter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 4
    Ish, those are some of the things I need to figure out. I had only finished creating the word lists themselves when I typed that post. I'll be thinking that through, defining and aging the language a bit before I actually use it. The story in question has been on hiatus for over a year, due to poor plotting on my part. I'm going to revive it soon.

    I could use help with linguistics, as well, and I'll see what help I can offer on the epic of the month in return! :)
  7. Arin_Atona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 4
    Languages? Umm... where's Ishy? She has an Alderaanian language already put together (though I forget what she calls it... Tiald, or somesuch).

    I did a bit where I had to make something look like ancient poetry once. :p I'll dissect it later this afternoon.
  8. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    *Throws Confetti* Congrats Sebby! I'm w/ Striker, if you haven't checked out Sebulba2179's work, you should. His stories are phenomenal and are certain to get you hair standing on end w/ his amazing podraces.

    You guys actually keep track of how many words that your fics are? Sheesh. I usually just go by how many Word pages are in my stories. I think I've only successfully written about 3 non-epics in my entire writing existence. I just can't seem to shut up :p

    Do you all other epic writers outline or not? If not, how do you keep track of things when your epic starts bludgeoning out of control?
  9. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    spiritgurl, if you can find a copy of this in a library, there's a fantastic book I read called "world english" which is a lexicon of all the slang and colloquialisms and phrases that they could find in the english-speaking world. If not, I'll go dig it out of my storage closet.
  10. Sebulba2179 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2002
    star 4
    I concur. My 'certain point of view' is, PM is the best place for constructive criticism because that type of thing is best handled one-on-one. Thus, you allow anybody who's reading just to let them read and get their own impression of the story, and come up with items of their own that they'd like to point out.

    I don't think there's really anything specific I'd like people to discuss right now, but as the fic goes on, I'll be more than willing to answer whatever discussions/questions/issues come to anyone's mind. :cool:

    Need I add, I'm very honoured to be writing the Epic of the Month; and sg, I can't wait to see how this idea carries forth in the future. :D
  11. JalendaviLady Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2002
    star 4
    Yay. My epic and its various and sundry connected viggies, accompaniment mini-epic, and songfics finally got to 50,000 and something words. [face_author_collapse]
  12. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    sg, if you're wanting to think about creating a language or dialect, I'd do a bit of research into how those things usually come about. I would suggest the book The Mother Tongue: English and How it Got that Way by Bill Bryson if you're interested in hearing the story of a language you're familiar with ;) It's an interesting book and an easy read for laymen, I think.

    Also, if you're wanting to go the route of Celtic influence, I can give you lots of links on the languages of Scots and Scottish Gaelic (Gaidhlig, pronouncd 'gahl-ig', roughly). I'd loan you my English-Gaelic dictionary if it weren't, you know, a book :p

    If you're *really* dedicated to getting a Scots slangy feel, you should really try reading Trainspotting, as it's entirely in the Scots dialect of Edinburgh. It can be a bit tough to read at first, but I think it is an awesome example of representing a spoken dialect in writing. I don't know if you've seen the film or not, but let me tell you, it was *way* toned down from the book in terms of dialect! Difficult to believe for some people (like my father, who couldn't understand half of what people said in Scotland 8-}) but true. Anyroad, it's a great example and a good read as well (though really intense). The poetry of Scottish bard Robert Burns is often in Scots, as well (Auld Lagn Syne, anyone?)... but it's more, you know, poetic ;)

    I would be really interested in hearing how other authors have made up languages for their cultures. For mine, the language aspect is probably the most developed part. The culture I've created is Force sensative and has an understanding of the Force from their own point of view. Their name for the Force is 'il Ahom', and I've used the root 'il' to refer to the Force in their naming system (for phrases, people's names, etc). Also, 'ava' is a greeting meaning 'peace', and shows up as the root 'av' in phrases and names... these are things I doubt readers will notice or care about, but it gives the culture unity and depth in my mind, which really helps me think of it as real.

    How do you use existing languages when creating new ones for a fic? I based mine mostly on Hebrew as far as structure and some of the name roots. But I tried to add in a bit of Spanish influences in parts, who knows why :p

    Can you tell I was almost a linguistics major? [face_love] I tell you, if I hadn't had to go to a school I don't like to be one, I would have been... but maybe I can still take some classes.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  13. spiritgurl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2003
    star 4
    Thanks Ish and solojones for those suggestions. It'll be a couple months before I'm done with the current episode, so I have some time to do research. I'll try to track down some of those books, and probably rewatch Trainspotting sometime. ;) I think I can find some things online too probably. I've just got to do some websurfing.

    See that's one of my fears with this idea, coming up with a new language, even if it's based on varying English forms, that it would still be difficult for the reader to follow. Anybody have any problems like that? Any tips?

    sg
  14. EmilieDarklighter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2002
    star 4
    One piece of advice I'd have is to only use words you've invented when you need to. For example...if you're talking about a lamp, don't say something like 'estura'. Say 'lamp'. But if it's a special sort of lamp, say something ceremonial, then you're free to use your made-up word. That way your reader can still get a sense of the culture and the language without having trouble translating. Use your language sparingly. :)
  15. spiritgurl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2003
    star 4
    well, just to clarify. This culture's language would definitely be based on Basic (English) but just sort of developed over the years. Sort of like the differences between English-English and various American-English. It would be peppered with different sayings, and perhaps certain words would be changed but hopefully still be recognizable. That's what I'm going for. One example I thought of, which I don't think is a real saying, is instead of saying "Want to go in (to a bar) for a drink?" the character might say "Want to go in for a tipper?" (the word tipper refering to the action you use with your wrist when you "tip" the drink into you mouth). So my thinking is that this language would be basically Basic but peppered with little changes like that.

    sg
  16. Arin_Atona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 4
    So... more of a dialect?
  17. spiritgurl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah. More of a dialect that would have developed through their isolation from the rest of the galaxy. As I was thinking the story through, I had decided it would make sense there would be some differences in their language, but the prospect of creating an entirely new language is intimidating to say the least. [face_worried] I decided if they had left to relocate at this new planet, speaking Basic at first, then it would make sense to have just some changes but not enough that most of what they said would need to be explained to readers somehow.

    sg
  18. Arin_Atona Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2004
    star 4
    : I decided if they had left to relocate at this new planet, speaking Basic at first, then it would make sense to have just some changes but not enough that most of what they said would need to be explained to readers somehow.

    That makes sense. They could be galactic Cajuns! :cool:

    *suddenly has an urge for crawfish* =P~
  19. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    My language for Alderaan started out as a motto on a decoration Leia gets from the survivors of Alderaan. At the time, it was purely latin-based. Then, I had Leia and Han go to an Alderaanian restaurant on Bespin and she intentionally massacred her own language. I agree that using it has to have circumstantial reason. Like in Message to My Daughter, I have all the funeral services in Taiald, but in one speech, Leia's speaking in Basic until she starts mentioning "feghaza"--righteous vengeance. She keeps using that word, but speaking the rest of the time in Basic because it's obviously a common word. I have different dialects for the language and obviously have places where no one speaks Basic because they'll never get off-world, whereas the Taiald of the capital city is a lot like Spanglish--it's used only as a necessity rather than a tradition at this point. Court Taiald is the hardest to write because, while regular Taiald is mostly a mix of Spanish and Greek, Court Taiald is practically Church Latin with a spelling difficulty. I had to do the Alderaanian coronation in Court Taiald and it took me twice as long.
  20. spiritgurl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2003
    star 4
    [face_laugh] Oh, yeah, then I could make it a X-men crossover with Gambit. ;)

    Or not. :p

    To get back to building worlds, in cases of new unexplored planets, how do you decide where to place your planet? I know there are maps available such as in this thread but still the mind boggles for some reason (or mind does :p but then that's not unusual). I was thinking of placing my new planet in "wild space" as it's referred on the SWI map, outside the Outer rim, but what about non EU/Canon planets that are part of the Republic? Is it okay to just plop a planet in that map somewhere?

    And slightly off topic but some might find it useful, how does one go about trying to determind time in space, in other words if a Jedi were traveling in his starfighter from point A to point B how do you figure out how long that would take?

    sg
  21. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    I always figure that that map is of major systems. Obviously, there can't be room to put all of the systems on there (I.e. The Hydian Way always seems to be the inset with random planets mentioned in that particular book shown)
  22. spiritgurl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2003
    star 4
    It looks like it's planets though DI. The little symbols are planets, it seems so I would say it represents planets. It's confusing though because it seems like often planets are also the same name for the system.

    Oh, and, up above, I didn't mean to make it sound like people can't still talk about linguistics and we've moved on. It's all part of world building, after all. :) I'm just trying to bring up a couple different related topics at once. Don't know if I sounded that way or not, but just wanted to clarify. ;)

    If anyone else have any world building related questions, please feel free to bring them up.

    sg



  23. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    Ah, well, then anyone wanna borrow my alderaan?
  24. spiritgurl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2003
    star 4
    I have a minor Alderaanian character in my current fic, I don't think I need that for her now but there is a possibility I could use something like that later on. I'll keep that in mind. :)

    So you say you use it more for ceremonies etc and not for general Alderaanian speech?

    sg
  25. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    It depends. In my beforethesaga fics and old republic fics, it's used broadly, but when the Empire arises, it's practically abolished. On the continent of Thon or in Antibes, I use it constantly. It's basically a politically-affected tradition, since the Empire would want its citizens to avoid a planetary version of nationalism and adopt more universal trends.
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