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CT The Jabba Rescue- exciting, ridiculous, or just too long?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Polydroxol, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Yanksfan

    Yanksfan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2000

    *blinks stupidly at post in stunned disbelief*

    DRush76, I don't want to alarm you, but I *totally agree* with you here (I know! I know, right??) The "escape plan" has never made any sense to me. And even if what darth-sinister says is true, it seems like an awfully complicated way to execute Han's rescue. I don't know. This has always bothered me (well, not "always"--I don't think I noticed how nonsensical it was until high school), but I've kinda given up trying to figure it out.
     
  2. fuzzbox77

    fuzzbox77 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2008
    I totally agree with Jedi Rocks (being the piece of **** that it is) - but many complain about the Droid Torture given by 8D8 and EV-9D9. How many times have 3PO and R2 being damaged, threatened or shot and show emotion and yet they can't be the only Droids in the galaxy programmed that way otherwise they wouldn't have put it in ROTJ in the first place.
     
  3. Yanksfan

    Yanksfan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2000

    My problem with the scene has less to do with whether it makes sense or not (and I'm not convinced that it does), and more to do with how I just find it boring, annoying and pointless. I would've liked it to have been cut out of the film.
     
  4. Ananta Chetan

    Ananta Chetan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2013
    [​IMG]

    Probably my favorite Luke action scene. I love his innocent self-confidence in that little hand salute to Jabba and to signal R2 as he stands on the plank above the Sarlaac and how his companions are as equally bewildered and surprised at the maturing Jedi's ability to orchestrate their escape. Even at the conclusion of the scene how he calmly says, 'Don't forget the droids." gives a nice subtle window into his character's development.
     
  5. fuzzbox77

    fuzzbox77 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Anyone could say the same about Threepio falling backwards in the Jundland Wastes. That wasn't imperative to the story just as the torture isn't - but it blends. The scene primarily focuses on what could become of R2 and 3PO if they don't do as their master wishes. The shots of tortured droids are more antagonising to the central characters of that particular scene. I see the OTT as a whole. I love every minute of it - tortured droids or not.
     
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  6. Yanksfan

    Yanksfan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2000

    Well, sure. I mean I'm not going to argue that you liked the scene. That's your right. I was just merely stating my opinion, which was what this thread was calling for. And in my opinion the other other scenes between Threepio and Jabba showed what you were talking about just as well. As for the Jundland Wastes Threepio fall, yeah that was kinda pointless. But that didn't bother me because it didn't take up much time and therefore didn't bore me and I didn't find that it really slowed down the movie at all.
     
  7. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    *sigh* I guess I have to run through it...

    Okay, I’ve posted this several times over the years, but I may as well post it again. I must note that much of it is based on speculation and extrapolation from what is seen in the movies themselves. Anyway, on to Luke’s plan.

    Using the Alliance to get Han out was not an option. Han, after all, is just one man, and the Rebels can’t spare an attack team with air cover to rescue one man, no matter who he is. Besides, Han was encased in a carbonite block in the middle of the palace. By the time the strike team gets to him, it’s a safe bet Boba Fett would’ve blasted him to pieces on Jabba’s order. So, Luke has to resort to what is essentially a con game. He’s got to get Jabba to basically hand Han over to him, rather than try to take him. So, he devises an operation, with multiple fail-safe points, to accomplish this. Here’s how it goes:

    Luke puts together his own version of the IMF, consisting of himself, Leia, Lando, Chewie, Artoo and Threepio. They all rendezvous on Tatooine and get to work (though he keeps certain parts of the operation from Threepio, given the droid’s talkative nature). Lando goes in first, as Luke’s inside man. He’s a former con artist, so he knows how to put together a passable fake identity and slip in. He checks out the area and sends word back to Luke, then sticks around to help.

    Next, the droids go in with a legitimate offer to buy Han’s freedom. (Remember, Leia’s rich; she can afford it.) Luke offers the droids as a gift just to sweeten the deal, and, in Artoo’s case, provide a weapon he might need later. If this works, an exchange is arranged and Han is freed, with Lando getting the droids out when he leaves. But, it doesn’t work. So…

    Leia goes in, disguised as Boussh, to infiltrate the palace, with Chewie along to provide her with a legitimate reason for being there, along with street cred and needed muscle if the situation comes to it. She’ll sneak into the audience chamber to free Han and get him clear. Meanwhile, Lando will free Chewie to help out, and then get himself and the droids out. If it works, they all escape before Jabba catches on. But, it doesn’t work. So…

    Luke goes in, unarmed, to try to mind trick Jabba into releasing Han. Sure, it might look odd for Jabba to suddenly go along with Luke’s wishes. But, hey, he’s the guy in charge; who’s going to argue with him? If it works, Luke takes the prisoners with him and Lando & the droids sneak out the back. But, it doesn’t work. So…

    Luke tries a mild threat on Jabba. Yes, he says he could destroy Jabba, but Luke also still gives the impression that they could still strike a deal. He also warns Jabba of what he could expect if he decides to fight it out. If it works, Luke and the prisoners leave and Lando & the droids get clear. But, it doesn’t work. So…

    Luke tries to kill Jabba, an attempt that is purposely meant to fail. Luke’s not an idiot. He knows that even if he gets lucky and takes Jabba’s head off, Boba and the guards will cut him down on the spot. In any case, the purpose isn’t killing Jabba. The purpose is getting dropped into the Rancor’s nest, and killing the beast. This is important; there’s no Plan B. This is a crisis point, and if it fails, the rest of the plan falls apart. But, it doesn’t fail; Luke kills the Rancor, greatly angering Jabba. So…

    Jabba finds Luke’s actions so insulting that he doesn’t just have everybody zapped at once. He sentences them to get tossed to the Sarlaac, which is exactly what Luke wanted. Check the scene; when sentence is passed, Luke has a little smile and is nodding. He may as well be saying, “Got you, you son of a bantha!” So, it’s off to the Sarlaac.

    There, Luke tries to avoid conflict one last time. He’s plain on the subject: “Free us, or die.” If it works, the good guys head for the hills and Jabba goes home. But, it doesn’t work. And here we are.

    Luke’s hands are free, and he’s all set. Han is awake and ambulatory. Chewie and Lando are nearby, ready to move. Leia’s inside, waiting for her chance. Artoo is on deck, with Luke’s lightsaber. And Jabba is outside of his palace and away from the bulk of his guards, and he has no idea of what’s about to happen. The dominoes are in place, and Luke just has to knock down the first one.

    That, people, is one well-made plan. It’s flexible, it accurately measures Jabba’s weaknesses (pride and overconfidence), it has several points where it can smoothly switch tracks, and it gives Jabba several chances to just walk away without the need for violence. And, when it gets to the big finish, it takes Jabba and his cronies down but good. As far as I’m concerned, Jim Phelps and his team couldn’t have done any better.

    Over to you…
     
  8. oierem

    oierem Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    That's what Lucas explains in the Making of book, but I had never thought about that until I read it, and I don't think anything in the movie suggests that was the whole plan.
     
  9. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Hell, it shows the difference between Luke and Jabba and how they treat droids.


    Lucas said that was the plan when he was discussing this with Kasdan. ATMachine posted this.

    Kasdan: See, the trick is that we have to work back from the Sarlacc pit.
    Lucas: What Luke wants to do is to get on that barge and the only way he can do it is as a prisoner. He has to become a prisoner and Chewie has to become a prisoner; they have to unfreeze Han and they all have to be at the same execution, which is what his plan is. He figures once he kills the rancor, then they have to go to the pit. He knows that's where the execution is going to be anyway. What they do with ordinary nuisances, or solicitors, is they drop them into the rancor pit. Luke knows or doesn't know that is what would happen, what kind of trap they have laid for him. He's assuming that when he is discovered and when he is subdued, which he will be, that he is bound to end up with Han and Chewie in the skiff over the Sarlacc pit.
    The plan is, "I am going to knock everybody overboard into the pit and we're going to take off"--but it goes a little awry because Boba Fett screws everything up and suddenly they are in trouble and they get into the fight.
    Kasdan: You can assume that Luke's plan is multilayered and the court of last resort is they are going to take him to the Sarlacc pit and they'll all be in place. But when he comes in and says, "I want to bargain for Han," he is hoping that will work.
    Lucas: Yes.
     
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  10. Yanksfan

    Yanksfan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2000
    Bravo, Kenneth Morgan --I actually *really* liked your explanation of "the plan". And I was all the way with you except for this part...

    I don't know. It looks like Luke is a genuinely surprised when he falls into the Rancor pit. I don't think he was expecting that. But it's only a minor quibble--because I see it as a mere hiccup in his plan, that Luke quickly overcomes and the end result is the same (everyone sent to the sand barge for execution).

    Great post. Your explanation makes a lot more sense than the stuff I was trying to come up with in my head.
     
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  11. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    May 27, 1999
    I think it's no so much that he's surprised, but that he wasn't expecting it to be that fearsome. I'm sure Lando told him that the Rancor is big and mean and scary, but it's another thing to actually see it coming to rip him to pieces.

    In any case, thank you for the compliment.
     
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  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Lucas indicates that he wasn't sure if Luke should know or not know about the Rancor. My guess is that the final result is that he didn't know for certain and when he saw the Rancor, he was shocked by its size. He probably hadn't seen one before.
     
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  13. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    The Jabba Rescue- exciting, ridiculous, or just too long?


    4. An action figure promotional video.
     
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  14. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008


    It doesn't sound well made to me . . . just lucky.
     
  15. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    So was the Cantina, the Battle Of Yavin 4, the Battle Of Hoth and the Battle Of Endor. What's your point?
     
  16. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Sigh. Sometimes when I post I just like to make a little joke. Sorry that every post doesn't contain a thoroughly researched, incisive thesis.
     
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  17. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    At the moment that Luke caught that lightsaber and lit it up the audience in the theatre erupted in cheers. ROTJ was my favorite theatre experience of all time as the crowd was into it and excited, and it delivered. And that includes this scene.

    I used to make the skiffs out fo legos, and lacking a Great Pit I turned my blankets all swirle dup and shaped into a pit and used my action figures to relive this scene.
     
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  18. Ord-Mantell70

    Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2009
    It's fine with me (pre SE). Great moments. The only thing that actually bothers me is the monster-factory syndrome in Jabba's palace.
     
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  19. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    It's probably the silliest rescue in the saga.

    But when the sith hits the fan, it puts a big smile on this fan's face.

    Pure Star Wars. From relative calm and a controlled mixture of tragicomic meanderings, to a farcical action sequence that explodes to life with all the eccentric zest and ballast that only 'The Wars can deliver.

    Havoc at the heart and the edge of civilization. That's Star Wars. It's giddy to see it all unfold: the epic conflagration and the (comparatively) restrained build-up it contrasts against.
     
  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    At the very least, use similes.
     
  21. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Happy now? ;)
     
  22. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
  23. Among the Clouds

    Among the Clouds Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2001
    The whole thing is a bit long, but to me at least, more tolerable than what comes later with Endor.
     
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  24. Jarren_Lee-Saber

    Jarren_Lee-Saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Too long. The Jabba scenes and the Ewok scenes are the reasons I have a hard time enjoying ROTJ.
     
  25. Darth_Kiryan

    Darth_Kiryan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2009
    it was a bit distracting from the main storyline. I usually skip over it myself.