The Jaina Solo Fan Club

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Rebecca191, Apr 8, 2001.

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  1. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    Heh, I agree with you completely, Frey. I really don't see Jag as an "uber" character at all. He's just good at what he does; that is, piloting.

    I love how people worship Kyp for all his flaws and still manage to really dislike "flaws" of another kind in Jacen. I mean Kyp isn't necessarily wrong because his ideas oppose Luke, right? Well Jacen has been questioning Luke's traditional Jedi training since VP. If we like imperfect characters so much, surely Jacen is as imperfect as they come in the NJO.

    But this is Star Wars and we like characters that do something above all else. Oh well.

    Ok, I'll finish my rant too :p

  2. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Okay, Kyp has made huge mistakes and you all love how flawed he is. He's had a lot of time to get that way.

    Kyp showed his flaws in one trilogy, and really only two of them. It was then shown again in Simple Tricks and Darksabre. And THEN we get to the NJO :)


    Look how he FAILS in Simple Tricks. Look how he has always been rash and headstrong, getting himself into trouble(Shouting "SHE'S DEAD!" on a SD? Good move :) ). He has a cockiness and arrogance too. He has managed to distance himself from everyone(See: Veema line in DJ).

    Now, what are Jag's flaws? Oh yeah, he's a miserable git. Woooooo. That's as big a flaw as a slight limp or trouble holding down a stable job :)


    I love how people worship Kyp for all his flaws and still manage to really dislike "flaws" of another kind in Jacen

    Better not be talking to me there ;) :)
  3. Freyja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 4
    Jacen is as flawed as Kyp Vergere, just not in the 'cool' bad boy fashion fans love. Jacen just doesn't provide anything to satisfy bloodthirst or display enough bad-ass ambitions. His flaws are subtle, internal, philosophical, and utterly lack flash. Well that's too boring for some who want to see a flaw in action, not ponder the inner workings of a characters mind.

    Yes, Jacen has caused some very outward problems with his mind set in cases such as Centerpoint. Oh how the Jacen haters pick on him for that! Now Kyp and the Suncrusher is okay, because it was a very cool vengeful way to display his flaw in character. But Jacen doing it out of hesitence and mercy...*sarcasm* pfft who cares about that? [face_plain]

    And as for there not being that many Jedi/Jedi couples NJ. I never said there were that many. I said the combo is dull and predictable as paint! One is enough, if there were many I don't think I could read.

    You know two Jedi together really sort of make a uber-couple! Oh, that won't do at all. Yes Jedi together is just insufferable. ;) If I see one more couple reading eachothers minds 24/7 in a sicky touchy feely fashion and always making the perfect Jedi 'team' I'm gonna puke.
  4. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    Look how he has always been rash and headstrong, getting himself into trouble...He has a cockiness and arrogance too.

    These characteristics could describe Anakin Solo as well. But I thought you believed Anakin Solo was another type of "uber" character?

    Frankly, these characteristics attract readers more than they discourage them. They aren't flaws really; we'd like all of our heroes to be headstrong, rash, cocky and confident in their abilities ("arrogant").



    I think a really important aspect where Jag "fails" as far as his character goes, was trying to communicate with Jaina. Kyp understands Jaina like no other. Jag on the other hand shows he fails miserably in communicating the simplest matters of the heart. Here is the glorious Chiss Commander utterly at a loss with Jaina.

    That is imperfect and a good characterization IMO.
  5. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Frey is getting meaner and meaner to Kyp likers :)


    These characteristics could describe Anakin Solo as well. But I thought you believed Anakin Solo was another type of "uber" character?

    No. I don't like Anakin overly(Although a lot of this can be blamed on Tahiri :) ), but he isn't uberly. Only time I'd think that was when in Ruin, he is holding one corridor with two sabres, while a Master and a Knight do similar, with one getting hurt. But to be honest, that isn't anything. Think you mean GAW, he uses the same icon :)


    They aren't flaws really; we'd like all of our heroes to be headstrong

    It nearly killed him in Ruin, JE(Well, more risked heavily), SbS(Majorly) and DJ. This is more than, say, Corran
  6. Freyja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 4
    I'm not mean dang it! I'm debating...if I sound too acid I'll curb it if it would make everyone happier. :p
  7. Lady_Jedi_Carenix Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2001
    star 4
    Curb nothing! I like reading good debates. :)
  8. jainasolo2001 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    The characters MUST have flaws, or otherwise they won't be believable.

    Personally, I find the realistic portrayals refreshing. The harsh, unbelievable way Jedi have been perceived in the past was getting too 'cookie cutter'.

    These are just people.
  9. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    no no, no curve. But give it 6 months, and you coukd be like Jaina in Conquest. Then you'd go to the darkside, and some handsome arrogant headstrong yet remorseful guy will turn you back.


    Sure I know this story :)
  10. Freyja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 4
    This is my favorite subject for debate and a common one in here, that's why I'm so mouthy. :)
  11. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    Whoops, it might have been GAW, sorry.
    [Being headstrong] nearly killed him in Ruin, JE(Well, more risked heavily), SbS(Majorly) and DJ. This is more than, say, Corran
    But these qualities in a character still endear its readers. Especially in a Star Wars universe where actions are, more often than not, the bottom line.


    And right on Frey! We like your garrulousness on this matter! :)
  12. Freyja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 4
    Thanks, I hope I didn't scare the others away. ;) :)
  13. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    I know that word from Con Air! :)
  14. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    Like it or not, people do tend to gravitate toward others who are similar to them. Even "opposites" have some similarities.

    Take me for instance. I happen, with the exception of one instance, to date men who are National Merit Scholarship winners or Harvard material. I myself am smart but often in a different way than the men that I date. My current boyfriend and I both have a great appreciation for dance music. We enjoy similar types of movies and TV shows and have a similar sense of humor. We're both smart people but in different ways.

    This is why I don't find it so awful when jedi date jedi. With the exception of Jaina and Jag, jedi can't sense non-jedi in the force. If they can (another really weird and unbelieveable plot point) then that's freaking amazing. Still, the force offers a connection that is beyond two people just getting to know each other. Also, having shared talents and life goals doesn't hurt, and jedi seem to have similar talents and goals. Just because people are similar doesn't mean they're boring together and a bad match.

    Plus, Star Wars IS about magic and jedi and fighting for freedom and stuff like that. If there weren't magic and jedi elements then they might as well just set the entire thing in medieval Europe or call it Star Trek. I don't read Star Wars for the normal humans, I read it for the Jedi. Minus the Jedi it's just another soap opera. Or worse, the NJO is just the US vs. the Taliban.

    Jae Angel
  15. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Like it or not, people do tend to gravitate toward others who are similar to them

    Miserable, annoying, ugly and with no life for me then! [face_plain]







    :)
  16. Freyja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 4
    I'm not suggesting that Jedi themselves are boring or that SW wouldn't almost all it is without them. I like Jedi. They drive me insane as couples. It's overkill for me. Having two people together who aren't Jedi isn't going to lessen the effect and magic of Jedi in SW. SW is largely about Jedi, by putting them with other types of people we get balance and mix and are able to integrate other types of characters into this story which largely revolves around Jedi. This is just how I like it. The bond Jedi couples feel pleases some readers, I understand that. But it fills this reader with contempt. That's just how it is for me and I recognize I feel a bit stronger about this than others.

    I know how you feel NJ and you know how I feel so we'll just have to agree that we don't have the same sentiments on this issue. ;) I think most would agree with you anyhow. :)

    Edit: I would also add that while in life here, couples have things in common and work a certain way, this issue is more about writing something that appeals to readers. None of this exists and so can be played anyway barring how it would happen here. This isn't really a debate subject like some are. This is a personal feeling about what a reader enjoys and what bugs them. Things like this are what they are because people feel different ways. I confess that the Luke/Mara relationship causes me to feel even less enthusiastic about Jedi couples. I love Han and Leia. I think they have way the heck more going on even if EU has tried to butcher them and placed the others on a pedestal for a while (although I don't feel that they have been treated to great lately either). Once again, others love them. No one is ever going to be perfectly happy. :)
  17. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    Maybe what we've had is a series of jedi/jedi relationships that aren't written well and one really good jedi/non-jedi relationship. However, there's no guarantee that all jedi/jedi relationships will be so mediocre and that all jedi/non-jedi relationships will be so spectacular, because different writers do different things.

    Yes Frey, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. But still, I love the debate :)

    Jae Angel
  18. vogt0047 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 3
    *walks into thread and reads last few pages*

    Wow! We're all so on topic...Becca must be so proud :D

    Continue!

    *makes popcorn and plops on sofa to watch the debate*
  19. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I am! I'm very proud of you, children. ;)

  20. Freyja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 4
    LOL.

    It's been a while since I really argued with people. Felt good to flex those muscles. :cool:
  21. JadedofMara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2001
    star 4
    AHHHHHHH!!!! I missed all the fun!!!

    Frey...one thing about Jedi couples, and couples in general.

    I like SW mush, but for me, pairing off is NOT an essential part of the Star Wars saga. Sure, ill take part in the Kyp vs. Jag debates, but I think that the romance should ALWAYS be back burner to the action and adventure that is so essential to this saga. I, personally, would like to see Jaina not end up with ANYONE for a while. Like to see her remain on her own, with friends (aka Kyp) to help her out.

    Narundi...what you said about like attracting to like is very true. But if you think about it, it has been MORE the case in Star Wars where total and violent opposites have formed relationships. Han and Leia, Luke and Mara, Anakin and Tahiri...and so on and so on. I think that writers think that this makes it more interesting for people to read (lots of little one-liners and snappy dialogue opportunities). This is one area where a potential Jag/jaina relationship would deviate; sure, shes a jedi and hes not, but I ahve alwyas seen Jaina as fist and foremost a pilot. Sure, she uses her Jedi skills all the time, but she always seemed happiest in a cockpit. Remember in Dark Tide, when shes all excited to be in Rouge Squadron? Thats a really great scene. :D


    On the general subject of Uberness...like canon, and continuity, uberness was never something that i thought much about until i started posting here. and i still try to think about it as little as possible. Characters SHOULD have flaws. And if you think about it, you can find a flaw for almost every single character in this saga. Sure, lucky coincidences always happen to them, they are right most of the time, but people, this is FICTION!!! They are HEROS!!! I mean, I dont feel like these people SHOULD have lives that we can relate to. Yes, everyone is wrong sometimes, and every character has been portrayed with flaws. But i think the whole fix on uberness is silly, frankly.

  22. DarthAttorney Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2000
    star 6
    This thread is getting close to 10k, where the policy in EUC dictates a v2.0 should begin.

    In 70-odd more posts, could someone open a new one so I can lock this old lumbering juggernaut? :)
  23. Rogue_Starbuck Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2000
    star 4
    She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. ;) :D

    Becca's on the case. :)

    R.

    PS: I believe Becca's on the case. Right...Becca? :D
  24. Rogue_Starbuck Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2000
    star 4
    *Grinds error into a thousand tiny pieces and blasts it into oblivion!* [face_plain]

    R.
  25. ganner_rhysode Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2001
    star 4
    On the subject of NJO romances, war is known to bring friends and allies closer and I think that in showing the developing relationships, the authors are adding a sense of realism and poignance to the proceedings, particularly the force meld in SbyS. :)
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