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Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: DARK NEST III: THE SWARM WAR (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Mastadge, Dec 25, 2005.

  1. neo-dragon

    neo-dragon Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2004
    I say 8/10. Overall it was pretty entertaining. Luke was awesome at the end, and he seemed to have more of a sense of humour than usual. I laughed when Lomi Plo confronted him with his own lightsaber and he responds simply by saying, "now you're just ticking me off." Leia kicked ass too against Alema, and I enjoy the interaction between her and Saba. Having Luke reach the point where he almost hated his father again was also pretty interesting. I've been thinking that it's time for the big 3 to pass the torch, but I gotta say that Denning handled them really well in this novel (and the whole trilogy), so much so that I'm almost willing to buy into this whole "60 is the new 40" slogan that Del Rey is trying to sell.

    Anyway, here's what I didn't like: While it was cool to have Luke witness the major events of RotS, let's face it, it was gratuitous fan-service. In the first two books it didn't serve to advance the plot at all, but I figured it would go somewhere in the final book. It seemed to me that the whole Luke needing to see it to clear his mind of doubt and fear so that he could face Lomi Plo was just a convenient plot device. Also, the ending was somewhat unsatisfying. It didn't resolve the issue of who sold out Han and Leia to the Chiss *cough*Jacen*cough*. In fact, nothing to do with Jacen was resolved. He's still very wrong in his views of the Force (Denning was none too subtle in showing that he was the only one who couldn't see that Anakin Skywalker had problems, right up until he Force choked Padme); no one knows about his daughter; Lowbacca, Tesar, and Tahiri's concerns about him weren't addressed (BTW did Luke forget them on Dagobah? The legacy series should begin with Luke finally remembering to send for them :p). For that matter, the issues with the jedi order aren't resolved either. Nor was Jaina and Zekk's status as "mindmates". Hell, we don't even know if they ever found Jag. The book could have been 50 pages longer just to tie up loose ends! So, I guess I'm disappointed that the Dark Nest trilogy ultimately doesn't stand on its own. The Swarm War was in many respects just a lead in to the Legacy series. Sometimes I miss the days of post-RotJ EU stories that stood on their own. Now every novel just ends with an implied, "to be continued", even if it's the third book in a trilogy.
     
  2. lightsaber_wielder

    lightsaber_wielder Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    7 out of 10.

    Disappointing. I'll post a review in around two weeks, when I get back to Australia.
     
  3. AnakinsGirl

    AnakinsGirl Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Okay. I am halfway through and I need to make some comments, here.

    First of all, what's with the articifical pheremones Han is supposedly on? That gave me the biggest laugh. Ever.

    Secondly, I don't know why everyone is making such a *huge* deal about Jacen going to the dark side when it is clear that Jaina is far more at risk. Hi: did anyone just happen to miss all of the references to her lust for battle, her desire for victory and vengeance? If that's not darkside material, I don't know what is. Sure, she stopped herself before committing such desired acts of treachery, but the fact is that Jacen simply isn't motivated by these selfish desires. To me, he seems more sane than Jaina--playing the Devil's Advocate, trying to understand his grandfather's way of thinking. Whereas Jaina storms off and starts a killing frenzy as soon as one of her insect friends dies. She isn't even thinking for herself, which I find spectacular....she is on the wrong side of the war, thoughtlessly defending the Colony, which could wreak havoc on the Alliance...and it is Jacen who is turning evil? Come on now.

    Jaina is a frigid cold-hearted bi-otch and we all know this, with an unhealthy obsession with her own motivations for saving the colony...which at the moment seem to be self-preservation and preserving her friends, as well. If anyone is not serving the Order or the Force, it is Jaina, unwilling to put the Jedi Order first and abandon her friends.
     
  4. Jamez

    Jamez Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 27, 2005
    7,5 / 10

    A decent read, but I believe the first two books to be better.
    The Swarm War offers a solid mix between action and character scenes, though the major war chapters featured Jaina as main character. Good for all Jaina fans out there? I don't think so, because there is no real character development for her. At least she's less joiner then before - a good thing in my book.
    What really bugged me is the way Skywalkers wife is portrayed. I liked her, back when she was introduced by Zahn during TTT. I came to dislike her after TTT. She always seemed too tough and too smart for my taste. Anyway, her character took a 180 degree turn in the final Dark Nest book, where she appeared really simple-minded, especially in her worshipping of...
    Darth Potentium. Jacen.

    Page 276, The Swarm War:

    "Good. Now use what you are feeling. Your anger and your grief can make you more powerful. [...]"

    Solo's eldest son only needs to shift his eye-colour and to develop a british accent and he'll pass as Emperor Palpatine in no time. Well, I admit, I found the chapters with him and Luke to be the most interesting ones.

    And, speaking of Luke and regarding all the discussions about whether or not Jacen'll turn to the Dark Side, I was surprised how often and easily Luke became angry in this book. I don't think he was that angry during the whole NJO...okay I'm exaggerating. But still, you'd think Denning capable of knowing a few more adjectives.

    Another "disappointment" (seeing as 7,5 is a good rate and the book was far from disappointing) was the abscence of the DN's Jedi in the first 2/3 of the book. Hell, even Raynar did not appear physically until the very showdown.

    Of course, the book shines in other aspects, but most of them have already been noticed. As I said, a decent read.
     
  5. AnakinsGirl

    AnakinsGirl Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    I want to tear the world apart with my anger. Jacen is *not* going to go to the Dark Side. We already had one Solo child do that, and to do it again would just be stupid and redundant, because we know he would come back. Just like Jaina.

    Honestly stop ignoring whiney, bitchy, unstable Jaina. Like I said, she seems to be more convincing material for this alleged Dark Side theory ( ;) )
     
  6. Jediflyer

    Jediflyer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2001
    AnikansGirl, Jacen is definetely going to the darkside. I can't see any other way after reading this series and the blurbs about LOTF. I mean, come on, Jacen is mirroring Anikan Skywalker. You have to be blind not to see it.

    Jaina, on the other hand is not. I agree she is a b****, but this whole series she has been acting as part of a hive mind.

     
  7. Zebra3

    Zebra3 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2004
    7

    The action was good though I could have done with less of the battle Jaina was involved in. Loved the final battle with Lomi and Raynar, the Jedi Master in all his glory!

    And Luke is rejecting the whole Potentium garbage? w00+! [face_dancing] It was great when Luke was facing Jacen down about this. I'll never forget when Jacen says "His first duty is to choose." Then Luke simply responds "But that's not what a Jedi is." Truer words were never spoken. You can't completely change what you believe in and still remain what you were.

    As always, I loved Han but when did Leia get so arrogant? I have found myself thoroughly disliking her in this trilogy.

    And can we please get some Jedi stories that don't involve the Solos or Skywalkers? Yes, I know they are the core of the SW universe and I love them all (though I could do with less of Jacen at the moment) but I do like a little variety every now and then.
     
  8. neo-dragon

    neo-dragon Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2004
    Jaina doesn't even count! She didn't turn. Turning to the darkside is more than just getting a bit pissed off for a week and shooting Force lightning once. Crap, was "Dark Journey" stupid... Thanks to that book people will for ever be confusing a bitchy teenager's bad mood with becoming an actual dark jedi/sith. If what Jaina did is considered turning to the darkside you'd be hardpressed to find a jedi in the NJO who hasn't turned at some point.

    When I talk about Jacen turning, I mean full-fledged Anakin Skywalker killing innocents and trying to kill his friends and family turning. Not "I'm grumpy for a while and I think I'll blame the darkside" turning.
     
  9. SpiritofEowyn

    SpiritofEowyn Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2005
    My Two Cents.

    I agree with you about Jaina part way. Dark Journey doesn't have Jaina turn to the darkside, barely even a brush. I don't think seeing your brothers die and being powerless to stop it is a 'bad mood'.

    If you think Jaina brushed the darkside in DJ then Jacen definately turned in Traitor when he exploded part of lower Corusaunt because he was angry. He did a lot more damage.

    And I don't think Jaina is an 'itch, blunt, rude at times and rebelious sure but if you're going to use a derogatory term you could at least explain your interpretation of the word, for their are many. One of which would make Jacen a ba**** since they're related. It would make more sense if you just said that for reasons you can't explain/bad writing of umsympathetic authors who don't want to give her screentime, you are not fond of the character.


     
  10. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    Counting 33 ratings: 255.25/33 = 7.73
     
  11. JacenSolo132

    JacenSolo132 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    8,5 / 10

    I enjoyed the novel, though some battle scenes with Jaina could have been shortened. The Jacen / Luke interactions were awesome, TD did a great job there. Han & Leia were perfectly written (as always).

    In my opinion there were too many questions left unanswered and I was very disappointed that the Solo/Skywalker family didn't get to know that Jacen and Tenel Ka have a daughter. Then there was no interaction at all between J/TK.

    I think TD should have mentioned Leia's reaction to the holos of Padmé's death at the end.
    The final fight just proved what Luke is capable of. Fighting Lomi Plo left-handed and winning is not that easy.

    Concerning Jacen, I still DON'T believe he will fall to the dark side. Sure he walks on a very thin line and he has to be straighened in some things but he cares a lot for his family (not only Allana). When he saved Mara's life I finally was convinced that it wouldn't be him who will fall in Legacy. It's just a distraction to make us think he will fall if you ask me.
     
  12. DaJames

    DaJames Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2000
    I'll give it an 8, solely because i like Denning's style and i like that the focus he puts on characters. No major character goes into the trilogy and comes out unchanged (except for C-3PO but then it's against the law for him to develop :p ). Not his greatest work, but i do think part of that is because of the restricted page limit (and is it me or did he manage to push a little further than what seems to be the DR standard, around 320-330 pages ?). At least he's got another 3 books to finish the story ;)

    I actually liked the climax, though it's a shame that it was a 3 book lead up to it. Through the trilogy, i didn't really understand the mechanics of how these punk Jedi could possibly be such great threats. It was only towards the end that i really picked up this idea of the Killiks boosting the power of Raynar and Lomi and the two been linked together. What i liked was that Lomi's power over Luke was very specific ; she'd reflect any dark side tendencies within him, his fear, doubt, etc and use them against him. Luke's real battle ended once he remastered himself and came to terms with the death of his mother. His actual fight was with the darkness within himself. Once he won that, Lomi was doomed. I loved how Luke relatively simply dispatched her, RotS style, by cutting her twice into four pieces. You don't mess with Luke [face_devil]

    Leia also proved herself against low-level villain Alema Rar, by showing the Skywalker within, arguably one of the best elements of the trilogy. The point wasn't that Alema may have walked away, the point was that Leia fluked in the first book, stalemated in the second and in the third she mopped the floor with her, proving beyong a shadow of doubt that she is a Jedi Knight, possibly to become one of the greatest.

    I also liked how R2 tried to sort of reconnect with Luke just before the battle, explaining his behaviour in a very Artoo-ish kind of way, telling him that protecting his owner (even from the truth) is his first priority. He really likes Luke, and i imagine he almost feels guilty over 'failing' Luke's father. After all, he is the last surviving player from that entire drama. In a way, Artoo was also making a conscious effort all these years to prevent Luke falling to the Dark Side and to a certain point, i agree with Artoo's decision. Clearly, all the recordings were in the same vein of danger to Luke but the real kicker is the death of Padme, and this is a gripe i have with Lucas. Imagine how, if you were a battle-scarred and weary warrior, desparately trying to hold the Jedi Order together and save the galaxy yet again, how would you feel if you knew your mother gave up on life and quit her fight just as you were born ? That she didn't care to live long enough to be your parent, even at the first moments of your life ? This had the potential to really stuff Luke up, this insight into what an ultimately weak character his mother was. More thoughts to come later, during daylight hours
     
  13. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    6 out of 10, it's over, good.
     
  14. Sniper_Wolf

    Sniper_Wolf Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    With the constant battles fought between Jacen gushers and bashers, bug lovers and bug stompers, etc., The Swarm War has came out. Has Denning salvaged the trilogy after two disappointing volumes? Since Joiner King was Han and Unseen Queen Leia, the Luke novel brough the wonder to my mind. So I charged head long into Swarm War.

    "Never the less, their actions will speak louder than their words," Supreme Chancellor Palpatine refering to the Jedi Council from the script of Revenge of the Sith.

    A person's actions defines who they are. The Jedi Order were an order of fighting monks who cared about the will of the Force, the stability of their government, and the common man. Denning has turned this noble order into a gang of thugs and traitors. I know this isn't Hemingway, but a little thinking collapses' Denning's card house.

    Former Galactic Alliance Defense Force colonel Jaina Solo and Zekk were enslaved into the Killik collective. They fought against the Chiss, an ally of the two's home government. With the Killik back coups of Alliance planets, the Killiks had preformed an act of war against the Alliance. By staying with the Killiks, despite their weaking Joiner status, Jaina and Zekk supported and aided an enemy of the Galactic Alliance. That makes them guility of high treason. They should be executed as traitors. Are we supposed to feel sorry for these traitors of democracy?

    Jacen Solo started a war with the intent of exterminating a sentient species based off no hard facts except a vision. During the combat scenes, I remember something. Every single dead and wounded Killik, Joiner, Chiss, Jedi, and Galactic Alliance solider is on Jacen's hands. With the commando actions that neutralized Lomi and Raynar, the war was proven to be unnecessary. However, Mara and Luke congratulate Jacen for the death of millions. Jacen is a war criminal for his crimes against the sentient species of the galaxy. For starting a genocidal war and mind raping an old woman and a nine-year old child, Jacen should be executed for his horrible actions. Again, are these the characters we are supposed to feel sorrow for?

    Luke Skywalker, Grand Master of the Jedi Order. Luke allowed multiple members of the Order fall into the throng of the Killik collective. He supported Jacen's drive for genocide by not repremanding Jacen for his actions. Luke did not raise a finger to stop the traitors Jaina and Zekk. Luke, the hero that defined a generation, is a supporter of genocidial war and high treason. This screams out of character. Like the others, Luke should be executed for his crimes.

    Why are the heroes we grew up with being potrayed as horrible people? The Emperor's words are true. The Jedi's actions speak louder than their words. I would like an EU novel sometime when most of the heroes are in fact good people.

    "That's the thing. I have this condition...." Leonard Shelby, from Memento.

    It is becoming ever clear that Luke lacks the ability to form memory. One of the novel's main points is his clamping down on the Order. When he goes back to dualistic Force view, why does he allow Jacen to stay Potentium? Why does Luke claim to end desent when he allow the Jacen area to continue? Please excuse the laughter.

    Notce the Artoo memory scenes. Luke has clearly forgot Leia is his twin. She has just as much right to view the recordings, but Luke always waits till Leia is away to play the recordings. A bit greedy, eh?

    "Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a completel and wise learner, you must embrace a larger view of the Force," Darth Sidious, Dark Lord of the Sith.

    Sometimes I wonder how the head hancoes at Del Rey reacted when they saw that their highly proclaimed Potentium truth was shown to be almost verbatim to the teachings of Lord Sidious. A retcon was obviously needed. The best part of Dark Nest is the Force retcon. I couldn't keep a straight face when Jacen was
     
  15. masterskywalker

    masterskywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    9 out of 10 for the trilogy on a whole, 8.5 for Swarm War.

    Meta-review of all three books forth coming.
     
  16. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    Counting 38 ratings: 289.25/38 = 7.61
     
  17. Jedi_Master_Forte

    Jedi_Master_Forte Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2003
    8.5/10

    Awesome but not quite as good as the first two. The final battle was a little too short and Jaina still kinda got on my nerves (though I liked Wuluw). Loved Jacen's character and him and Luke's parts were great.
     
  18. SWLOVER

    SWLOVER Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2005
  19. Eleventh_Guard

    Eleventh_Guard Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2005
    9/10

    Overall very good... the battle scenes with Jaina dragged on a bit, but otherwise, I liked this the best of the three.
     
  20. Jediflyer

    Jediflyer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2001
    I know I said I couldn't give it a score a while back because it would be so bad, but after seeing all these people giving it 8.5s and 9s, I'll have to give it a 4 out of 10 for reasons posted previously.

     
  21. Obi Anne

    Obi Anne Celebration Mistress of Ceremonies star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 1998
    I seems to be an exception in that I thought this was the best book in the trilogy. For once I actually even got some understanding for Jaina, which was a totally new experience.

    The good: Characterisation, Denning is the best writer when it comes to Han/Leia, and I also liked how Luke was described in this book. He is the grand master, but still showed very much that he is human.

    The bad: I think I've given up on Luke and Mara realising how bad Jacen really is, I hope his mother or Tenel Ka might be able to smack some sense into him. I also wondered why Leia wasn't present at any time when they were watching Padmé and Anakin. She seemed totally uninterested in finding out about her real mother.

    My biggest problem with the book is all the loose endings though, I realise that LOTF will pick up on them, but there is still a really big time gap between DN and LOTF, and I find it hard that nothing will be resolved until then.

    Anyway I really enjoyed this book and I'll give it 8,5/10.
     
  22. Jedi_Jason5001

    Jedi_Jason5001 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2001
    7.9

    I frankly thought this book wasn't up to par as the first two, moreso the first one which really kicked things up a notch and set the pace, which i liked. I know I'll get slammed hard for saying this, but this trilogy sort of reminded me of the Matrix movies. The first book/movie set up what we needed to know and made us think long and hard, and presented us with an interesting concept (what is the matrix/hive-mind-Joiners). Then it was a slide downhill from there. This book, the ending was just way too rushed. Yes, Luke is the best of them all, as has been shown, and he is my favourite character, but IMO, he dispatched with Lomi Plo just a little too easily. She's got 2 extra arms and an extra lightsaber, so I would have thought she would have presented more of a challenge.

    Personally, the ending battle should be big and drawn out over a number of pages. This battle was rushed. They blow their way in, shoot down the bugs, get all destroyed, then Luke steps in and first man handles Raynar, which was fine, and then after dueling with her twice, manages to come in and dice her into itty bitty pieces. LP should hvae been a bit more deadlier.

    Even though Jacen is going (straight) towards the Dark Side, it's his character progression that I liked. I like how he's saying and doing these things that go against the grain of what it is to be a Jedi and is rubbing his cohorts the wrong way. That makes him more of a love-to-hate kind of guy. I'm not saying he's the greatest thing since the hyperdrive was invented, but he's being fleshed out, and fleshing out and moving forward someone in a book is a good way to keep them fresh likeable... in that hateable sort of way.

    Last thing is, I had a real hard time sometimes attempting to picture the scene, such as the battleground of Tenupe or the corridor of the SD. Mebbe i have to rewatch the OT movies to see how big they are, but I struggled to make the scene look in my mind like the characters were able to move and fight in such a way and with the space that htey had. DR should have given the guy more room in which to write. But hopefully, this book is the set-up we need for the upcoming series.
     
  23. AnakinsGirl

    AnakinsGirl Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2001
    8/10

    I thought it was thoroughly enjoyable. Don't get me wrong, I have some gripes about Jaina. But I love Jacen's character...he obviously needs some setting straight, as far as "using the anger", but he seems to be on a relatively straight path.

    The one thing that really bothered me was Mara and Luke. I don't even recognise Mara anymore, and she used to be my favorite character. First of all, didn't she used to be a professional assassin? Why didn't she have anything useful to contribute to the tracking down and killing of Lomi Plo? I also hated it how she always rushed to Luke's side in an argument.
    Luke would say something in his own defense and she would step up and say, "YEAH!"
    -Shut up Mara, no one is talking to you.
    She needs to step up and kick some ass. Did all her years of training go completely to waste once she squeezed one out? This is rediculous.

    Those were my main gripes. All I can say is, fix Jaina's character or ELSE! *shakes fist* And please, don't make Mara so unforgivably lame.
     
  24. Mastadge

    Mastadge Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 1999
    Counting 45 ratings: 343.15/45 = 7.63
     
  25. DropkickJake

    DropkickJake Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2003
    8.5 outta ten.

    I liked it... I may review later.